[Boo]

This catch can debate is heated

[JB'sZL1]

I will settle this once and for all and simply answer the op's question.

No (according to GM).
Yes (according to EE and MM).
Anything in-between (to all others).

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by JB'sZL1

I will settle this once and for all and simply answer the op's question.

No (according to GM).
Yes (according to EE and MM).
Anything in-between (to all others).

that pretty much somes it up indeed.

[Boo]

Originally Posted by JB'sZL1

I will settle this once and for all and simply answer the op's question.

No (according to GM).
Yes (according to EE and MM).
Anything in-between (to all others).

Well put sir! Everyone can go back to their corners

[DRGNZ]

My builder in Alberta, says yes on the naturally aspirated engines, but not on the ZL1 supercharged. For what it's worth, I won't be adding one.

[Staubsauger17]

I'll create a separate post later... but I am dropping off my ZL1 tomorrow to be a prototype for a new Cold Air Intake with Integrated Catch Can.

This is the 5th Gen NA V8 version:

http://www.westbenddyno.com/west-ben...ld-air-intake/

I don't know much about the new product and its goals... but I'll find out tomorrow and update if there's interest!

[Boo]

Originally Posted by Staubsauger17

I'll create a separate post later... but I am dropping off my ZL1 tomorrow to be a prototype for a new Cold Air Intake with Integrated Catch Can.

This is the 5th Gen NA V8 version:

http://www.westbenddyno.com/west-ben...ld-air-intake/

I don't know much about the new product and its goals... but I'll find out tomorrow and update if there's interest!

Thats a joke right? That thing cant be real

[Elite Engineering]

Hi All,

First let’s address the Warranty issue as some false information is in this thread.

If you install a vented breathered, or other type of Catch Can that in any way defeats, deletes, or reduces the OEM functions of the PCV system, yes, that is 100% grounds for a dealer to void your warranty as it can directly cause failure over time to the engine or components.

This link here to the FTC's guidelines covers all, but is a long read: https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/doc...ag-mossfrn.pdf

This is a more automotive specific summary: https://www.sema.org/sema-enews/2011...ermarket-parts

In short, it is a violation of Federal Law to void your warranty for the installation of one of our systems as we maintain ALL emissions requirements and the installation and use of one of our systems when installed and used properly could in no way cause any damage or failure, just the opposite.

The FTC site also has forms and offered assistance to file a complaint if you are scammed by a dealer in regard to this as well as who to bring possible charges against them.

Our systems retain a 100% closed system. It in no way (unlike a breather or vented can) reduces any of the OEM functions and in fact converts to full time evacuation when using one of our dual valve versions as all GDI engines should. You also have to beware of Catch Cans that drain-back or return the damaging compounds back to the engine (far more than oil is trapped in a system, water, acids, raw fuel, and abrasive particulate matter mainly), as they are returning a concentrate of what the PCV system is designed to remove.

So, only one documented case in our history had a warranty claim denied, and those that followed the story and resolution know the dealer misdiagnosed a bad engine when it was a well know problem, a failed oil pump and the owner ended up fixing it himself.

Out of the tens of thousands of our systems in use today, that has been the ONLY case. If a dealer hassles you, there are Mag. Moss specialty law firms that can assist you very inexpensively, but usually just using the FTC is all you need.

Now, let’s go on to why you would want to use one of our systems. First, it is a choice, you made the investment in your vehicle and only you can make the decision on how to care for it, so here are some facts to consider:

As no fuel touches the intake valves on a GDI engine, the valves are subject to far higher operating temperatures and thus contaminates entering the intake air charge (oil, etc.) bake onto the backsides and rapidly form "coking" deposits. Unlike engines of the past, these deposits bake into a very hard and abrasive formation that is similar to sand in its abrasiveness, so as the particles shed, although most is expelled out the exhaust, some is forced between the piston and cylinder walls causing scouring over time. This damage leads to increased blow-by and oil consumption.

Then, we have to look at another factor. As these engines operate at higher compression ratios and the fuel is introduced directly into the combustion chamber at 2,000-3,000 PSI, many times the amount of raw fuel is pushed past the pings and washes oil from the cylinder walls. This fuel also dilutes the engine oil substantially reducing viscosity and the oils ability to protect properly. Our dual valve systems provide full time evacuation so these damaging compounds are flushed and evacuated (sucked out) as soon as they enter so most is removed before it has a chance to settle and accumulate in the crankcase and the engine oil.

Combine this with the abrasive particulate matter also entering the crankcase and never before has it been more important to your engines life to take steps to prevent the wear all GDI engines are subject to.

So, we have covered the intake valve coking (we prevent up to 85% of the coking to ever form in the first place). We have explained the fuel washdown and other contaminates and how we deal with them. Now we have the immediate benefits. And that is the reduction of detonation caused knock retard. Your engine as mentioned is a higher compression ratio than past Port Injection engines, so ANY amount of oil mist or other compounds present in the intake air charge contribute to detonation or pre-ignition. By removing these prior to having a chance to enter the intake air charge, you reduce detonation and knock retard and your engine will maintain optimum ignition timing advance making more power and getting better fuel economy.

One final aspect is ALL newer engines come with "low tension" piston rings. This is to help the automaker meet ever increasing CAFE fuel economy standards, just like the super thin oils the owner’s manual recommends (has nothing to do with what’s "best" for protecting your engine) and these rings rely on pressure above, and suction below to maintain stability and proper seal. When you allow pressure to build by NOT pulling proper crankcase suction at all times, the rings enter a state known as "Ring Flutter" when pressure is allowed to build. This is the rings vibrating rapidly under heavy loads and high RPM's compounding seal and blow-by issues, and over time wearing the leading edges of the rings as well as the ringlands and wearing divots or chatter marks into the cylinder walls (engine builders see this and know of this). So, there are so many benefits and zero negatives to implementing a system like our E2 or E2-X system.

Here is an example of how quickly these issues occur:

So, we hope this answers your questions. Other tips for avoiding issues:

ONLY use a full synthetic oil and at least a 10w40 weight. We prefer Amsoil 5w50 Signature series. It deals very well with the raw fuel washdown, and as full synthetic leaves little to no residue when burned, it greatly reduces the rate of intake valve coking.

Top tier fuels. Although they touch nothing inside the engine unlike port injection engines of old, and nothing in the fuel system can benefit from them, they do help keep injectors clean and operating properly.

Oil change intervals. As GDI engines are subject to far more of the compounds that overwhelm the engine oils ability to protect, more frequent changes are definitely a good thing. Do NOT rely on that oil change message. We recommend every 5k miles.

Do NOT use a solvent based engine running upper induction cleaning!!! While safe on Port injection engines of the past, the abrasive nature of the deposits causes damage when these are loosened with the engine running and are not safe regardless of manufacturer claims. We tear into these motors on a regular basis and see the damage caused.

Questions? Ask. Contact our Technical Support team direct at: Tech@EliteEngineeringUSA.com Sales at: Sales@EliteEngineeringUSA.com

Does not matter if you own our products or not, we are committed to educating and assisting in every way possible as there is so much mis-information out there it is hard to know what is false, and what is accurate.

Cheers!

[waterman]

Originally Posted by Elite Engineering

Hi All,

First let’s address the Warranty issue as some false information is in this thread.

If you install a vented breathered, or other type of Catch Can that in any way defeats, deletes, or reduces the OEM functions of the PCV system, yes, that is 100% grounds for a dealer to void your warranty as it can directly cause failure over time to the engine or components.

This link here to the FTC's guidelines covers all, but is a long read: https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/doc...ag-mossfrn.pdf

This is a more automotive specific summary: https://www.sema.org/sema-enews/2011...ermarket-parts

In short, it is a violation of Federal Law to void your warranty for the installation of one of our systems as we maintain ALL emissions requirements and the installation and use of one of our systems when installed and used properly could in no way cause any damage or failure, just the opposite.

The FTC site also has forms and offered assistance to file a complaint if you are scammed by a dealer in regard to this as well as who to bring possible charges against them.

Our systems retain a 100% closed system. It in no way (unlike a breather or vented can) reduces any of the OEM functions and in fact converts to full time evacuation when using one of our dual valve versions as all GDI engines should. You also have to beware of Catch Cans that drain-back or return the damaging compounds back to the engine (far more than oil is trapped in a system, water, acids, raw fuel, and abrasive particulate matter mainly), as they are returning a concentrate of what the PCV system is designed to remove.

So, only one documented case in our history had a warranty claim denied, and those that followed the story and resolution know the dealer misdiagnosed a bad engine when it was a well know problem, a failed oil pump and the owner ended up fixing it himself.

Out of the tens of thousands of our systems in use today, that has been the ONLY case. If a dealer hassles you, there are Mag. Moss specialty law firms that can assist you very inexpensively, but usually just using the FTC is all you need.

Now, let’s go on to why you would want to use one of our systems. First, it is a choice, you made the investment in your vehicle and only you can make the decision on how to care for it, so here are some facts to consider:

As no fuel touches the intake valves on a GDI engine, the valves are subject to far higher operating temperatures and thus contaminates entering the intake air charge (oil, etc.) bake onto the backsides and rapidly form "coking" deposits. Unlike engines of the past, these deposits bake into a very hard and abrasive formation that is similar to sand in its abrasiveness, so as the particles shed, although most is expelled out the exhaust, some is forced between the piston and cylinder walls causing scouring over time. This damage leads to increased blow-by and oil consumption.

Then, we have to look at another factor. As these engines operate at higher compression ratios and the fuel is introduced directly into the combustion chamber at 2,000-3,000 PSI, many times the amount of raw fuel is pushed past the pings and washes oil from the cylinder walls. This fuel also dilutes the engine oil substantially reducing viscosity and the oils ability to protect properly. Our dual valve systems provide full time evacuation so these damaging compounds are flushed and evacuated (sucked out) as soon as they enter so most is removed before it has a chance to settle and accumulate in the crankcase and the engine oil.

Combine this with the abrasive particulate matter also entering the crankcase and never before has it been more important to your engines life to take steps to prevent the wear all GDI engines are subject to.

So, we have covered the intake valve coking (we prevent up to 85% of the coking to ever form in the first place). We have explained the fuel washdown and other contaminates and how we deal with them. Now we have the immediate benefits. And that is the reduction of detonation caused knock retard. Your engine as mentioned is a higher compression ratio than past Port Injection engines, so ANY amount of oil mist or other compounds present in the intake air charge contribute to detonation or pre-ignition. By removing these prior to having a chance to enter the intake air charge, you reduce detonation and knock retard and your engine will maintain optimum ignition timing advance making more power and getting better fuel economy.

One final aspect is ALL newer engines come with "low tension" piston rings. This is to help the automaker meet ever increasing CAFE fuel economy standards, just like the super thin oils the owner’s manual recommends (has nothing to do with what’s "best" for protecting your engine) and these rings rely on pressure above, and suction below to maintain stability and proper seal. When you allow pressure to build by NOT pulling proper crankcase suction at all times, the rings enter a state known as "Ring Flutter" when pressure is allowed to build. This is the rings vibrating rapidly under heavy loads and high RPM's compounding seal and blow-by issues, and over time wearing the leading edges of the rings as well as the ringlands and wearing divots or chatter marks into the cylinder walls (engine builders see this and know of this). So, there are so many benefits and zero negatives to implementing a system like our E2 or E2-X system.

Here is an example of how quickly these issues occur:

So, we hope this answers your questions. Other tips for avoiding issues:

ONLY use a full synthetic oil and at least a 10w40 weight. We prefer Amsoil 5w50 Signature series. It deals very well with the raw fuel washdown, and as full synthetic leaves little to no residue when burned, it greatly reduces the rate of intake valve coking.

Top tier fuels. Although they touch nothing inside the engine unlike port injection engines of old, and nothing in the fuel system can benefit from them, they do help keep injectors clean and operating properly.

Oil change intervals. As GDI engines are subject to far more of the compounds that overwhelm the engine oils ability to protect, more frequent changes are definitely a good thing. Do NOT rely on that oil change message. We recommend every 5k miles.

Do NOT use a solvent based engine running upper induction cleaning!!! While safe on Port injection engines of the past, the abrasive nature of the deposits causes damage when these are loosened with the engine running and are not safe regardless of manufacturer claims. We tear into these motors on a regular basis and see the damage caused.

Questions? Ask. Contact our Technical Support team direct at: Tech@EliteEngineeringUSA.com Sales at: Sales@EliteEngineeringUSA.com

Does not matter if you own our products or not, we are committed to educating and assisting in every way possible as there is so much mis-information out there it is hard to know what is false, and what is accurate.

Cheers!

Thanks for the warranty info. That previously was my only concern in installing a CC.

[waterman]

I will install an EX-2 on my Z as soon as I get it home. (I have researched CC manufacturers extensively).

It is important to understand that the PCV vents (as in all LT4s) directly into the intake, its an emissions device. It pushes that nasty, caustic oily gas back into your intake. So that your engine gets to breathe it, not you and me and the birds and the bees and the trees.

3 or 4 months ago, I helped a friend of mine install a CC at 1700 miles on his 2017 Z06/07. You have to lift the blower to replace the OEM PCV. When I pulled the blower lid I couldn't believe the amount of oil, and most likely other caustic and abrasive compounds that were there. The deck and charge air coolers/intercoolers were coated with oily compounds, it was already pooling on the SC deck valleys valleys. There was no apparent varnishing yet, but it would not have taken long to start. With the amount of oily compound in the blower. I can only imaging the amount of coking on the intake valves that was probably already taking place, trashing the guides and dropping into the combustion chamber scoring the cylinder walls. Not to mention the potential for power and efficiency loss.

All that you have to do to confirm this, is go out to your garage, pull the 14-16 bolts and pop your blower lid and see it for youself. Its there, you don't have to trust me. NOTE; those bolts are low torque spec, you're driving steel into aluminum. DO NOT OVERTIGHTEN.

Chevy/GM did a really good job on the clean side. My gut tells me that they probably would have installed a CC on the dirty side too, except for the fact that it creates additional maintenance intervals, that the average consumer would not pay attention to. Lets face it, probably a good percentage of consumers do not properly maintain their cars. You see; if you don't check and/or drain your CC at least every 1K miles and it backflows into your intake, that sexy little LT4 of yours will be in a world of sh*t.

I'm going to be proactive on this one, preventative maintenance is a beautiful thing. I can't see popping my blower lid and soaking up the oily mess on my blower deck every 1000 miles. Pulling my SC every 8-10K miles to spend 4-6 hours cleaning my intake valves. Hopefully at that point my charge air coolers won't be varnished, that LT4 generates a lot of heat.

Just change the motor and gear oils and tires as needed, flush my brakes and change pads as needed...and drain my CC every 500-1000 miles. Then drive this beast like I stole it.

Opinions may vary.

[kwav8r]

Originally Posted by Elite Engineering

Hi All,

Does not matter if you own our products or not, we are committed to educating and assisting in every way possible as there is so much mis-information out there it is hard to know what is false, and what is accurate.

Cheers!

You mentioned a new design coming in the future, when can we expect to see that one? I'm off the fence about one of these and want to install one.

[Akura]

Originally Posted by Elite Engineering

Hi All,

First let’s address the Warranty issue as some false information is in this thread.

If you install a vented breathered, or other type of Catch Can that in any way defeats, deletes, or reduces the OEM functions of the PCV system, yes, that is 100% grounds for a dealer to void your warranty as it can directly cause failure over time to the engine or components.

This link here to the FTC's guidelines covers all, but is a long read: https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/doc...ag-mossfrn.pdf

This is a more automotive specific summary: https://www.sema.org/sema-enews/2011...ermarket-parts

In short, it is a violation of Federal Law to void your warranty for the installation of one of our systems as we maintain ALL emissions requirements and the installation and use of one of our systems when installed and used properly could in no way cause any damage or failure, just the opposite.

The FTC site also has forms and offered assistance to file a complaint if you are scammed by a dealer in regard to this as well as who to bring possible charges against them.

Our systems retain a 100% closed system. It in no way (unlike a breather or vented can) reduces any of the OEM functions and in fact converts to full time evacuation when using one of our dual valve versions as all GDI engines should. You also have to beware of Catch Cans that drain-back or return the damaging compounds back to the engine (far more than oil is trapped in a system, water, acids, raw fuel, and abrasive particulate matter mainly), as they are returning a concentrate of what the PCV system is designed to remove.

So, only one documented case in our history had a warranty claim denied, and those that followed the story and resolution know the dealer misdiagnosed a bad engine when it was a well know problem, a failed oil pump and the owner ended up fixing it himself.

Out of the tens of thousands of our systems in use today, that has been the ONLY case. If a dealer hassles you, there are Mag. Moss specialty law firms that can assist you very inexpensively, but usually just using the FTC is all you need.

Now, let’s go on to why you would want to use one of our systems. First, it is a choice, you made the investment in your vehicle and only you can make the decision on how to care for it, so here are some facts to consider:

As no fuel touches the intake valves on a GDI engine, the valves are subject to far higher operating temperatures and thus contaminates entering the intake air charge (oil, etc.) bake onto the backsides and rapidly form "coking" deposits. Unlike engines of the past, these deposits bake into a very hard and abrasive formation that is similar to sand in its abrasiveness, so as the particles shed, although most is expelled out the exhaust, some is forced between the piston and cylinder walls causing scouring over time. This damage leads to increased blow-by and oil consumption.

Then, we have to look at another factor. As these engines operate at higher compression ratios and the fuel is introduced directly into the combustion chamber at 2,000-3,000 PSI, many times the amount of raw fuel is pushed past the pings and washes oil from the cylinder walls. This fuel also dilutes the engine oil substantially reducing viscosity and the oils ability to protect properly. Our dual valve systems provide full time evacuation so these damaging compounds are flushed and evacuated (sucked out) as soon as they enter so most is removed before it has a chance to settle and accumulate in the crankcase and the engine oil.

Combine this with the abrasive particulate matter also entering the crankcase and never before has it been more important to your engines life to take steps to prevent the wear all GDI engines are subject to.

So, we have covered the intake valve coking (we prevent up to 85% of the coking to ever form in the first place). We have explained the fuel washdown and other contaminates and how we deal with them. Now we have the immediate benefits. And that is the reduction of detonation caused knock retard. Your engine as mentioned is a higher compression ratio than past Port Injection engines, so ANY amount of oil mist or other compounds present in the intake air charge contribute to detonation or pre-ignition. By removing these prior to having a chance to enter the intake air charge, you reduce detonation and knock retard and your engine will maintain optimum ignition timing advance making more power and getting better fuel economy.

One final aspect is ALL newer engines come with "low tension" piston rings. This is to help the automaker meet ever increasing CAFE fuel economy standards, just like the super thin oils the owner’s manual recommends (has nothing to do with what’s "best" for protecting your engine) and these rings rely on pressure above, and suction below to maintain stability and proper seal. When you allow pressure to build by NOT pulling proper crankcase suction at all times, the rings enter a state known as "Ring Flutter" when pressure is allowed to build. This is the rings vibrating rapidly under heavy loads and high RPM's compounding seal and blow-by issues, and over time wearing the leading edges of the rings as well as the ringlands and wearing divots or chatter marks into the cylinder walls (engine builders see this and know of this). So, there are so many benefits and zero negatives to implementing a system like our E2 or E2-X system.

Here is an example of how quickly these issues occur:

So, we hope this answers your questions. Other tips for avoiding issues:

ONLY use a full synthetic oil and at least a 10w40 weight. We prefer Amsoil 5w50 Signature series. It deals very well with the raw fuel washdown, and as full synthetic leaves little to no residue when burned, it greatly reduces the rate of intake valve coking.

Top tier fuels. Although they touch nothing inside the engine unlike port injection engines of old, and nothing in the fuel system can benefit from them, they do help keep injectors clean and operating properly.

Oil change intervals. As GDI engines are subject to far more of the compounds that overwhelm the engine oils ability to protect, more frequent changes are definitely a good thing. Do NOT rely on that oil change message. We recommend every 5k miles.

Do NOT use a solvent based engine running upper induction cleaning!!! While safe on Port injection engines of the past, the abrasive nature of the deposits causes damage when these are loosened with the engine running and are not safe regardless of manufacturer claims. We tear into these motors on a regular basis and see the damage caused.

Questions? Ask. Contact our Technical Support team direct at: Tech@EliteEngineeringUSA.com Sales at: Sales@EliteEngineeringUSA.com

Does not matter if you own our products or not, we are committed to educating and assisting in every way possible as there is so much mis-information out there it is hard to know what is false, and what is accurate.

Cheers!

Thank you. Knowing all of this, I have 2 questions:

- What do you recommend to break a new ZL1 properly? I am trading my 2SS to a new ZL1.

- 10w40 to use in cold weather? In my case it is easier to find 5w40 (Motul X-Cess Dexos2 approved). Opinions?

Thank you!