[ZL1Atlanta]

Originally Posted by laynlo15

Haha, welcome Jason and glad you entered the fray with your bad boy Zl1. Guess you made some pretty good power to run 9.28 and a best trap of 153. I think I saw that pass on Gen6 fast list. Vengeance did a stellar job on the build with our new 2650 Heartbreaker, made enough power to break an axle. Lt4 fueling correct or did you go the Lingenfelter route? Hope to catch up to you but having some traction and couple tuning issues, can't seem to put it all together at the same time. I'll figure it out.

Glad to be here. I sometimes forget about the traditional forums with so much being posted on FB and IG. Yeah it popped an axle recently. I have a Vengeance built low side setup and stock everything else running C16. I don’t street race so I don’t need 1k WHP outside of planned track events. I have a few other goodies on the way to hopefully carry us to 8’s this year. I just want to be 2 tenths behind Mike Swanson blower only considering the heavier car. 🙂

[laynlo15]

Swanny is running dam good. He's on the heavy side also at 3990. He has an event in a couple weeks so I think he'll lower the record again and proably run 8.50s or so. DA wasn't on his side in Vegas so when he gets down to about 1000 ft and in the 60s or 70's he'll know it out as long as he can hook it which he's had great luck since the second gear launches have started when we were at the LS Fest. I just want to run low 9s next year with my fuel system and a new low side. Gotta get my heads done since I bent a valve last summer. My heads are still stock except for springs. Not gonna go crazy on anything just a few changes.

[ZL1Atlanta]

Yeah his car is an animal and he’s an awesome dude, so very happy for him. We might play with 2nd gear launch at the next rental, but I’m not sure if it’ll be as useful on the A10 or not. In all honesty, I’ll be happy with any 8 at this point on the SBE. There are several 8 second 6th gen SS’s but not many 6th gen ZL1’s. Your car is running really strong, especially with the stock heads I’m sure you’ll have no problem hitting your goals.

[ShizzySupra]

Guess I have to clarify so I will draw it out in paint by numbers:

900++++whp can be achieved on an LT4 fuel system with meth and DSX lowside. There is nothing wrong with running this set-up. it's done great for people. People that are scared of meth are simply mis-informed. Period.

Port Injection isn't practical. Big DI isn't practical as well. The reason why I say it isn't practical is at the point you are upgrading those things you are pushing a stock LT4 or you have invested in a VERY well upgraded LT1. Heads/cam, drivetrain upgrades (clutch packs in the trans/clutch in manuals), 15" tires (so you can put the power down...). Etc. You singling out a cam for a DI cost was funny since anyone pushing that kind of power (port or DI) will have a cam. 99% of people aren't going to get anywhere near this level of investment.

I don't have anything against port injection. I just don't think people consider ALL the factors. By the time you are considering big fueling you will be investing tens of thousands of dollars into other parts of the car.

Unless you are a manual ZL1 who allegedly roll races but does so on limited tires....in that case you would be faster at 700-750whp as your tire choices could almost hook all that power from a roll.

Originally Posted by wnta1ss

ShizzySupra's claim about port injection is not really true. 'CRAZY impractical' only applies if you limit your fuel options by buying the Magnuson. Edelbrock makes PI an extra option available for your fuel solution. Not saying outright that it's 'the' solution, just that it's worthy of consideration when it's a possible choice.

Let's examine one of the factors customers will consider, namely, the costs of supplying fuel for one of these big-hp builds. First lets look at the fuel parts on the top Magnuson 2650 car:
Lingenfelter DI injectors $4399.00
LT4 hpfp $920.00
cam lobe (cam kit maybe $1200)
Fore Innovations low side assembly $2039.00
methanol injection kit ~$700.00

Now what about port injection? A complete kit with controller and fuel pump costs $4999.00 from Weapon-X. Hmmmm, does not cost more than the above, the capacity is fairly high, seems worthy of consideration.

[ShizzySupra]

Asking Michael Jordan to play you at a game of horse but requiring he only uses 1 leg and ties an arm behind his back is a funny way to ask for "exposure".

Good "exposure" for your set-up and tuner would be to go race on Street Car Video (I can set you up with Adrian and Manuel if you need a connection). Race some of the other fast 6th gens, race anything... compete at Street Car Takeover, half mile event, anything?

Good luck in achieving the goals to your build, sounds like you are close.

Originally Posted by EDFHOBBIES

I'm still up to race shizzy same tire, same fuel, no nos.. I think it would be good exposure for both.

[wnta1ss]

Originally Posted by ShizzySupra

Guess I have to clarify so I will draw it out in paint by numbers:

900++++whp can be achieved on an LT4 fuel system with meth and DSX lowside. There is nothing wrong with running this set-up. it's done great for people. People that are scared of meth are simply mis-informed. Period.

Port Injection isn't practical. Big DI isn't practical as well. The reason why I say it isn't practical is at the point you are upgrading those things you are pushing a stock LT4 or you have invested in a VERY well upgraded LT1. Heads/cam, drivetrain upgrades (clutch packs in the trans/clutch in manuals), 15" tires (so you can put the power down...). Etc. You singling out a cam for a DI cost was funny since anyone pushing that kind of power (port or DI) will have a cam. 99% of people aren't going to get anywhere near this level of investment.

I don't have anything against port injection. I just don't think people consider ALL the factors. By the time you are considering big fueling you will be investing tens of thousands of dollars into other parts of the car.

You said that port injection is crazy impractical for 99% of people. That came across as a diss against port injection and that's what I was addressing.

What you're saying about meth kits is not the whole story, knowing the truth about what risk there is depending on a meth kit to supply your fuel is not being misinformed. I have seen someone break an engine when their meth kit ran out in fact, so I know that the risk is real. Someone choosing to depend on such a system needs to be vigilant, and they need to be aware of that. This factor is unquestionably one advantage the port injection (and the big $$$$ DI parts as well) has over the meth supply, by getting it's fuel from the same tank as the hpfp does. This means that if the car can start, you have full delivery. Not saying here that people should not use meth kits, just saying to put all of the info out there and the individual customer can make a better-informed decision for their build.

Regarding the cam, with DI upgrades having one hpfp, the bigger fuel lobe is part of the upgrade. Since it's needed, it was included.

As far as the cost of other system upgrades, I was addressing only the fuel upgrade. The discussion was for a car hoping for ~1000rwhp, not just a basic supercharger job.

[Choda]

I really wish this race happens.

when you say the LT4 fuel system do you mean the hpfp and injectors OR hpfp, injectors and intank pump? I'm leaning toward the DSX pump and wanna know if you guys still swapped the intank pump from the lt1 to the lt4.

[EDFHOBBIES]

I made the statement to Ted Jannetty last week about the 5th gen.. All the shops were preaching use it for cooling only not for fueling.. "Don't go cheap on a fuel system, Do it right the 1st time". When I was powering my 5th gen I was told that over and over.. Ted says he's still preaches that.

I don't have a problem w it either.. but, I see it sales to the average person for 45 to 50 bucks for 5 gallons.. and its usually kept in a larger tank in the trunk(slightly dangerous) or the washer fluid bottle in the fender(hard to keep enough in it all the time. The hassles of keeping up with it and it running out or a solenoid malfunctions seems impractical in the long run. Getting a car together saving some money upfront sure this is the way to go. Surely I can't be the only one that likes to drive there car with 900 or more hp with being able to just fill up at the pump and go. Or jumping in it driving 200 plus miles with a camaro club on back roads or to the beach doing spirited runs.. We go to San Antonio all the time what do you do take a can of meth with you on the 400 mile round trip? If your building a race car that's trailered... ok its practical.

I agree make everyone informed just don't put up these big numbers and say your blower makes the most power with the lowest IAT's it really unfair and unjust. I guess this is another reason why I've been preaching and being an Azz at times .. I can't say its false advertising but it's definitely not the whole truth. Someone new to modding sees those numbers and gets all gung ho and thinks he can do it to maybe disappointed in the end.

Not saying I'm any better but I've gone over my build step by step and the why to's vs the why not's was stated.

[viurniel]

IMO the biggest challenge with any of the choices is the complexity and difficulty of install. But for big HP all the following should work:

Low Side DSX $1,000.00
Meth Kit $700
TSP Cam $445.00
Total $2,145.00


Lingenfelter(injectors, pump ,cam) $6,395.00
Cam $445.00
Low Side DSX $1,000
Total $7,840.00


Crawford All One $5,700.00
Porting job $800.00
TSP Cam $445.00
Total $6,945.00


XDI PUMP $4,800.00
FIC 35 $3,500.00
Low Side DSX $1,000.00
TSP Cam $445.00
Total $9,745.00


After installation costs, only the meth is a 'low cost' option. All others will basically be in the same range. Installing SPI requires more work than big DI, and from the non-meth options, the Lingenfelter will be the cheapest - when adding install costs.

[EDFHOBBIES]

Originally Posted by viurniel

IMO the biggest challenge with any of the choices is the complexity and difficulty of install. But for big HP all the following should work:

Low Side DSX $1,000.00
Meth Kit $700
TSP Cam $445.00
Total $2,145.00


Lingenfelter(injectors, pump ,cam) $6,395.00
Cam $445.00
Low Side DSX $1,000
Total $7,840.00


Crawford All One $5,700.00
Porting job $800.00
TSP Cam $445.00
Total $6,945.00
I actually paid 7200 for low side, Haltech, and complete port setup


XDI PUMP $4,800.00
FIC 35 $3,500.00
Low Side DSX $1,000.00
TSP Cam $445.00
Total $9,745.00


After installation costs, only the meth is a 'low cost' option. All others will basically be in the same range. Installing SPI requires more work than big DI, and from the non-meth options, the Lingenfelter will be the cheapest - when adding install costs.

Lets put a HP rating to those options on pump e50, E85 and meth! something realistic to most not a shizzy build lol

Stock LT4 fuel parts
Low Side DSX $1,000.00
Meth Kit $700
TSP Cam $445.00
Total $2,145.00

750 rwhp e50 830 to 900s depending on how much meth, type of blower and cooling mods


Lingenfelter(injectors, pump ,cam) $6,395.00
Cam $445.00
Low Side DSX $1,000
Total $7,840.00 (add 2500 to 3000 for a Intank return style low side) The DSX isn't enough to get to 900s A safe 800 to 830 on full e85 is possible but, unless you do the fore type setup and supply there setup with 100psi low side pressure consistently maintaining 85 psi and that's with an efficient power adder A oem blower will be lower. Also the CK valve becomes a restriction so that has to be addressed..


Crawford All One $5,700.00
Porting job $800.00
TSP Cam $445.00
Total $6,945.00


XDI PUMP $4,800.00
FIC 35 $3,500.00 Actually Plus 45 now 4k
Low Side DSX $1,000.00
TSP Cam $445.00
Total $9,745.00

Good to 1600 hp on paper.. the most Jason from Katech told me is that they are 1100 w 100 being from port assist. They have a whipple setup but it was only in the high 800s on all E85 so I just went port to new experimental for my blood!

NO data that the DSX is enough pump according to Dave and I's conversation about 800 rwhp you can all ways ad a larger pump but then your talking with messing pressure relief valve and something else.. might as well do the a Fore rreturn style.

[ramairroughneck]

I would love to be able to go with aftermarket DI or port injection. I honestly couldn’t argue against either one. For the money and in my case, methanol made the most sense right now. It has provided me good power on pump gas above the LT4 fuel pump and injectors alone (I do have cam, auxillery pump, and forged motor). It could easily exceed anything I could ever ask for with a race gas tune to swap in. I don’t feel like my meth system is any more dangerous than the other approaches mentioned if the proper precautions are taken. When I go out I do what many meth heads do, I hit the test button on my controller and I know the solenoids are working. There is also a led in plain sight that lets me know when the alcohol is flowing. With a well designed and sealed 3 gallon tank in the trunk there is no concern for a fire or running out. Lastly, I’ll add that if you’re running a large amount of meth, the car is gonna fall on its face should the system not work. Personally, I would fear a small amount much more than a big meth dependent system but that’s backwards to what most everyone says. That’s just my opinion. Maybe in time I can go with the better alternatives but it won’t be because I fear a methanol catastrophe.

[laynlo15]

I run the same AEM system, love it and its what most people can afford. I don't run straight meth, I run a little water although I don't need it with the 2650r but I'm like you I don't like the idea of a fire. I run mine in the washer fluid tank since I don't run mine on the street anymore so if I ever do I'll go the route of putting a fuel tank in the trunk. Its a very cost affective system and you can make plenty of HP with it and still be safe. I will do some type of low side this winter and get rid of the boost pump. Probably a DSX.

[viurniel]

Agree with EDF that the Fore is the way to go on the low side and on how little data there is on the XDI pump. Jannetty said he is working on a build with one - not sure that many others are.

ramairroughneck and many here have shown meth to work on high HP builds. Also, one can easily add a water-methanol flow sensor to reduce timing when flow is reduced.

RabbitZL1 has an eforce pushing 1K HP with port injection.

Sooo many options.

[ShizzySupra]

My car on its new setup makes 900ish whp on pump and meth. And by pump I mean 91/92 octane available everywhere in the country....

I drove the car 363miles to the track. Dumped a little ethanol in it do some test hits. Proceeded to drive it 4 hours back home. During that time my methanol tank was never low enough to be an issue. (Windshield fluid resevoir). Regularly drive to the coast with the wife in it.

You have to REALLY be getting on the car to have the meth flowing and to be honest at 900whp on everyday tires thats VERY limited in areas you can use 900whp...

Now if I went to a big ol upper pulley and de-tuned it I could hook alot better on stock run flats.

FWIW i have lt4 high side/inj, dsx low. Stock in tank.