[Capricio]

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

Cliff notes - I was sent to Chinese re-education camp and now I am an acolyte

From the author's PoV, sure. What I took from it is western governments, through regulation, took their OEMs from an arena where they dominated into one where they aren't competitive and and will continue to be without even more regulation/protection. I didn't see nearly as many thumbs on the scales ten years ago.

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

Originally Posted by Capricio

From the author's PoV, sure. What I took from it is western governments, through regulation, took their OEMs from an arena where they dominated into one where they aren't competitive and and will continue to be without even more regulation/protection. I didn't see nearly as many thumbs on the scales ten years ago.

I don't disagree, but what I find amusing is everyone's belief that the Chinese, for the first time ever, are producing something that is not a POS... and it just happens to be cars.

Maybe they actually are good, but what are the odds?

[GreenZLE]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Electricity prices in my area range from $0.127/ kWh off-peak to $0.2495/ kWh at peak and $1.03 during critical load times. What the garbage truck fleet is saying is they can charge off-peak, use approximately 40% of the charge on a typical run, then return to the garage during peak hours and put some of the energy back into the grid. Suppose they only get @0.15/kWh fo the energy they return to the grid. It’s still $0.023 more than they paid. Then when rates shift to off-pea, they can charge the vehicle again at $0.127/kWh. When it all washes out, it’s a net positive.

Got to 3:50 of this video and you can see a better description of how this works plus a real world example where a school bus fleet nets $10k per bus doing this exact thing.

https://youtu.be/gtzMhQtl364?si=iLdOWeWp4DvnW5_M

I'm highly skeptical. First off, we have history which proves they have repeatedly cut the rates they are paying solar customers for their energy feeding back into the grid. Second, its not economically feasible for the electric company to pay out what they charge long term. Sure, the government may subsidize for the short term, then the cheese goes away and the value vanishes.

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

Volt in the wild. I see these about as often as I see ZL1's... which is pretty much never.

Good looking car, IMO. Chevy should still be making them.

[Evergreen6]

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

I don't disagree, but what I find amusing is everyone's belief that the Chinese, for the first time ever, are producing something that is not a POS... and it just happens to be cars.

Maybe they actually are good, but what are the odds?

They are supposed to be good. GM competes with those companies in China with its own EV's built there. And we already get Chinese cars imported to the US under our own brands, like the Buick Envision, and the Lincoln Nautilus. For EV's we get electrics sold under European brands like Volvo, and Polestar, a car that Volvo and Geely of China co-developed.

A lot of electronics and battery tech have come from China for a long time...this is not a weak spot for them any longer.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Iron Lung Jimmy

Volt in the wild. I see these about as often as I see ZL1's... which is pretty much never.

Good looking car, IMO. Chevy should still be making them.

They are nice cars. We had a 2012 1st gen Volt (2012 - 15) and then a 2017 2nd gen (2016-2019). The 2nd gen lost an argument with a Durango and was replaced by a Tesla Model Y.

[genxer]

So the idea is making the grid save fuel like a hybrid vehicle? Then, $/kW arbitrage cells should just be dedicated batteries that are very cycling resilient and cheap. The better way to put an electrified vehicle battery to work is: have less of it, cycle the whole thing, plus use an engine (that isn't nearly as expensive as they've become). Avoid the expense of energy density priority cells and lots of them.

Originally Posted by GreenZLE

I'm highly skeptical. First off, we have history which proves they have repeatedly cut the rates they are paying solar customers for their energy feeding back into the grid. Second, its not economically feasible for the electric company to pay out what they charge long term. Sure, the government may subsidize for the short term, then the cheese goes away and the value vanishes.

The China thing. Playing shell games with costs is a socialist thing. Their population will greatly decline and they'll look to create vassals and foreign sweatshops. The wealthy there have to be expecting going to a more consumer economy. Maybe trusting minds in this country want to play their game, I sure don't.

[genxer]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

They are nice cars. We had a 2012 1st gen Volt (2012 - 15) and then a 2017 2nd gen (2016-2019). The 2nd gen lost an argument with a Durango and was replaced by a Tesla Model Y.

Ouch! I hope everyone involved was unscathed.

Quick couple questions. Did you give any thought to a Toyota Crown? Does that thing count as a sedan or a couped crossover?

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by genxer

Ouch! I hope everyone involved was unscathed.

Wife was driving. Several broken ribs and a cracked sternum. Otherwise all good. Thanks for the concern.

Originally Posted by genxer

Quick couple questions. Did you give any thought to a Toyota Crown? Does that thing count as a sedan or a couped crossover?

When you say “consider” do you mean in terms of the conversation on the temporary death of sedans? Or did you mean as a replacement for our dearly departed Volt? Second question is easiest to answer. No. Never considered a Crown. We would have considered a Camry or Accord before a Crown and neither of those was ever a consideration. Too many other preferred vehicles before getting to any of those.

As far as the Crown and its place in the automotive landscape, sure. Crown has both a sedan version and a crossover coupe. The sedan replaced Avalon. The crossover replaced Venza. As I mentioned, brands like Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, Kia, Nissan can be expected to continue with sedans in their portfolio. It makes sense, because their Truck CAFE fleets are under control. They don’t have high volumes of full-sized pickup trucks to balance out for CAFE. For every F150, Silverado, Ram that’s sold, the OEM has to balance the CAFE position by offering fuel efficient Truck fleet models. That’s where Equinox, Terrain, Trailblazer, et al come in. They pump up the CAFE average on the Truck fleet side. But for Toyota, Honda and the others I mentioned, they can concentrate more of their resources to offering a CAFE compliant car fleet. And if you’re Toyota, who is way ahead of everybody in terms of hybrid technology and cost, you make hybrid models on everything (except Supra) and shift a number of your high volume models (Camry, Crown, Sienna, Venza) to be hybrid only. Fixes the Car CAFE. Having hybrid as an option as well as a performance play on CR-V, Tacoma, and Tundra helps balance it on the Truck side.

[Evergreen6]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Wife was driving. Several broken ribs and a cracked sternum. Otherwise all good. Thanks for the concern.



When you say “consider” do you mean in terms of the conversation on the temporary death of sedans? Or did you mean as a replacement for our dearly departed Volt? Second question is easiest to answer. No. Never considered a Crown. We would have considered a Camry or Accord before a Crown and neither of those was ever a consideration. Too many other preferred vehicles before getting to any of those.

As far as the Crown and its place in the automotive landscape, sure. Crown has both a sedan version and a crossover coupe. The sedan replaced Avalon. The crossover replaced Venza. As I mentioned, brands like Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, Kia, Nissan can be expected to continue with sedans in their portfolio. It makes sense, because their Truck CAFE fleets are under control. They don’t have high volumes of full-sized pickup trucks to balance out for CAFE. For every F150, Silverado, Ram that’s sold, the OEM has to balance the CAFE position by offering fuel efficient Truck fleet models. That’s where Equinox, Terrain, Trailblazer, et al come in. They pump up the CAFE average on the Truck fleet side. But for Toyota, Honda and the others I mentioned, they can concentrate more of their resources to offering a CAFE compliant car fleet. And if you’re Toyota, who is way ahead of everybody in terms of hybrid technology and cost, you make hybrid models on everything (except Supra) and shift a number of your high volume models (Camry, Crown, Sienna, Venza) to be hybrid only. Fixes the Car CAFE. Having hybrid as an option as well as a performance play on CR-V, Tacoma, and Tundra helps balance it on the Truck side.

Where does the 2.7L 4-cylinder Silverado fit into GM's CAFE equation? It doesn't get great fuel economy, but it must win them points with the EPA in some category?

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Evergreen6

Where does the 2.7L 4-cylinder Silverado fit into GM's CAFE equation? It doesn't get great fuel economy, but it must win them points with the EPA in some category?

Hard for me to say. I do know it’s significantly better than the 4.3L V6 it replaced. But I don’t know if that places it above the CAFE line or just moves it closer to the line.

Ironically, it does now what the Atlas engine (L4/5/6) was supposed to do 20ears ago.

[Evergreen6]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Hard for me to say. I do know it’s significantly better than the 4.3L V6 it replaced. But I don’t know if that places it above the CAFE line or just moves it closer to the line.

Ironically, it does now what the Atlas engine (L4/5/6) was supposed to do 20ears ago.

If my information is correct, fuel economy is 18/21 for the 2.7 and 16/20 for the 5.3 in the Silverado. The 2.7's power is amazing for its size but it doesn't seem to have a significant advantage in terms of fuel economy over the 5.3. It has fewer horses than the 5.3 but more torque (430 lb-ft) which is very respectable.

I'd be curious to know how the 2.7 sells relative to the 5.3 and if that 2mpg bump for city and 1mpg bump for highway really helps GM achieve its CAFE goals. I appreciate the 2.7 for what it is, but if I'm buying a Silverado and the 5.3 is still available, I'm going with that. large displacement, pushrod, no turbo. Just IMHO.