[oldman]

Originally Posted by IneedAZ

I could be wrong in my thinking, but GM could dip into the sales of GT500's and Redeyes, or even regular Hellcats by getting off their duffs and release what everybody wants which is the LT5 ZL1 and not 2 years from now. The Hp/weight ratio is better than both top dogs and if GM would ease up on TQ management beat both cars in all areas.

They need to drop the boring commercials and give us what we are asking for. Dodge is stealing the sales by giving people the mind set we have lots of power. Redeye, Hellcat, 1320, etc.. I have been a Chevy guy since 1983, prior was Mopar. I now own both. I would ditch my Charger for a second ZL1 if it had the LT5.

I think we can agree, when you put Redeye, GT500, and ZL1 on drag radials, ZL1 is not first. Hard to overcome 100+hp if they are able to plant it.

LT5, factory line lock, factory trans brake,

[oldman]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

I get what you're saying about street and real world times vs strip times where you get to manipulate things a bit, or even magazine times with roll out aids that wont be afforded to a car in a "real world" race. The gt500s LC delay will hurt it in any scenario where you dont have an easy to time start signal. I don't know how its like just rolling off of idle not using LC but its probably a little lazy. Not gtr lazy since it doesnt have to build up boost but obviously everyone is using LC for their best times.

While the trans definately adds complexity to launching the gt500 in a "real world" launch, there's no denying that traction is a problem for it like the rest of these high hp rwd cars. Zl1s have traction issues as well to deal with.

I will say though, if we're talking "real world" racing not track or strip racing, most people in TX and FL don't start from a dig and the gt500 seems to be fine once its rolling.

agree.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

Aren't the base gt500s "plain" dampers also mrc? Just tuned differently than the cftp's mrc dampers.

Maybe, here is the GT350:

https://media.ford.com/content/fordm...nd-brakin.html

Shelby GT350 is the first Ford vehicle to offer a MagneRide suspension, which allows for a wide range of adjustments in a matter of milliseconds.

Does "offer" mean it comes as standard or as an option? It was standard it should say feature or equip.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by oldman

Maybe, here is the GT350:

https://media.ford.com/content/fordm...nd-brakin.html

Shelby GT350 is the first Ford vehicle to offer a MagneRide suspension, which allows for a wide range of adjustments in a matter of milliseconds.

Does "offer" mean it comes as standard or as an option? It was standard it should say feature or equip.

There were early 15-16 model year GT350s you could get without them. Since 17 they are standard for the GT350 IIRC.

GT500s all have mag ride.

[whiteboyblues2001]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Well yes the ATS-V was very good and that was a sign of things to come....except the Camaro is way better than the ATS-V at a lot of things lol. Had the Camaro performed like the ATS-V that would have been a good jump from 5th to 6th in my opinion and I expected it to be close to that....but it was alot better lol.

I know LL isn't the greatest indicator but the SS 1LE was like 5 seconds faster than the ATS-V. And was about 2 seconds faster around Laguna Seca. While I will admit road course times aren't my wheel house, but from what I know a 2 second gap is pretty substantial for a car on the same chassis, similar power etc. and a 5 second gap is insane. So no I sure as hell did not expect the alpha camaro on the same chassis with similar power to be that much better than the ATS V

You are comparing the 1LE against the ATS-V. The 1LE has forged wheels that are lighter, and tires that are bigger and have a more agressive compound. That's going to make a significant difference, if we are discussing how good the Alpha chassis is.

If you put 1LE tires and wheels on the ATS-V, you will likely get fairly identical performance on the track. How can we know for sure? Well look at the non-1LE SS, and compare that to the ATS-V, as they have closer to apples to apples wheels and tire combo (but still not the same). And when you compare the non-1LE to the ATS-V, they are darn close. I don't know of any same day same driver with these two cars, and the SS non-1LE was not run at any Lightning Lap test. I looked at fastestlaps.com and there were only two tracks that they both ran. One the Camaro was faster, the other the ATS-V was faster, and these were obviously differnent day different drivers...

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

You are comparing the 1LE against the ATS-V. The 1LE has forged wheels that are lighter, and tires that are bigger and have a more agressive compound. That's going to make a significant difference, if we are discussing how good the Alpha chassis is.

If you put 1LE tires and wheels on the ATS-V, you will likely get fairly identical performance on the track. How can we know for sure? Well look at the non-1LE SS, and compare that to the ATS-V, as they have closer to apples to apples wheels and tire combo (but still not the same). And when you compare the non-1LE to the ATS-V, they are darn close. I don't know of any same day same driver with these two cars, and the SS non-1LE was not run at any Lightning Lap test. I looked at fastestlaps.com and there were only two tracks that they both ran. One the Camaro was faster, the other the ATS-V was faster, and these were obviously differnent day different drivers...

I used the 1LE simply because that's kind of the trim that always gets used to compare to other vehicles. (and when people want to compare it to say the GT350) Then there's been PP1 to 1LE and then a kind of mash up of PP2 to 1LE. In this type of bench racing discussion it's kind of always been the 1LE. And again not knocking the ATS-V or regular SS. The SS being on the level of the V is great, and is a great jump from 5th to 6th(and much better of a jump than Mustang had) but it's the 1LE that puts it on another level. If you go back through all the nonsense talked in this thread and others it kind of has always been SS1LE, PP1 and PP2 350/R ZL1/E 500/CFTP C8Z51. the "base" SS and GT have rarely been mentioned other than the SS is fully equipped as is for track duty.

Then if you go CTS-V (yes I know its a stretched alpha so not full apples to apple) and compare it to the ZL1 the ZL1 was about 6 seconds faster at LL

My point is the Camaro when compared to it's alpha siblings is a much better performer. Which is why I stand by my statement of I didn't expect it to perform as well at it does.

Maybe I was alone lol. But even looking at just ATSV to SS it I sure as hell didn't think it had the potential it does in 1LE trim- maybe that's better wording

[Lafourche1]

Originally Posted by oldman

LT5, factory line lock, factory trans brake,

Teeny, tiny market to say the least. There aren't a group of folks waiting for the next Shelby Camaro (Ford has built that fan base and GM has not).

From a practical point of view, there would need to be a lot of regulatory certification, testing and other dollars spent. I just don't think that there is a ~$100,000 Camaro market that is stacked up at dealer doors with certified funds in hand and that includes me.

[whiteboyblues2001]

Originally Posted by shaffe

I used the 1LE simply because that's kind of the trim that always gets used to compare to other vehicles. (and when people want to compare it to say the GT350) Then there's been PP1 to 1LE and then a kind of mash up of PP2 to 1LE. In this type of bench racing discussion it's kind of always been the 1LE. And again not knocking the ATS-V or regular SS. The SS being on the level of the V is great, and is a great jump from 5th to 6th(and much better of a jump than Mustang had) but it's the 1LE that puts it on another level. If you go back through all the nonsense talked in this thread and others it kind of has always been SS1LE, PP1 and PP2 350/R ZL1/E 500/CFTP C8Z51. the "base" SS and GT have rarely been mentioned other than the SS is fully equipped as is for track duty.

Then if you go CTS-V (yes I know its a stretched alpha so not full apples to apple) and compare it to the ZL1 the ZL1 was about 6 seconds faster at LL

My point is the Camaro when compared to it's alpha siblings is a much better performer. Which is why I stand by my statement of I didn't expect it to perform as well at it does.

I get what you are saying, and not arguing against it, but our discussion didn't start with what YOU expeced, it was with what FORD was expecting, and my point is (and still is) that Ford wasn't surprised. They knew the 6th Gen would go on the Alpha chassis and have the powertrain from the Corvette, both of which were already on the streets. No surprises or top secret developments, just parts out of the bin. Ford knew what was coming and how well it would do, they just didn't want to comit tons of monetary resources to deal with it (like develop a new platform for the Mustang). And it was a good decision, since the Mustang has sold better anyway.

So, I believe you when you say that YOU didn't expect the Camaro to be this good, and that's okay, you don't get paid to reseach Ford's competition for them. No biggie, but Ford was NOT caught off guard or surprised, they just chose to take a certain route that would let the Camaro be the better performer for this generation for business reasons...

[oldman]

Originally Posted by Lafourche1

Teeny, tiny market to say the least. There aren't a group of folks waiting for the next Shelby Camaro (Ford has built that fan base and GM has not).

From a practical point of view, there would need to be a lot of regulatory certification, testing and other dollars spent. I just don't think that there is a ~$100,000 Camaro market that is stacked up at dealer doors with certified funds in hand and that includes me.

AFAIK no Shelby comes out with linelock / transbrake, that is a Dodge Demon deal.... I know crazy right. Point being GM can do it too because it has an auto trans backing up the LT4 and could do the same with a 6th gen LT5.

[LESS1]

Originally Posted by Laststandard

So do you work for DSC or a shop that sells DSC? Or sponsored by them?

That link was more focused on the toe links. One member posted about an improvement after they sent him a 'non-faulty' unit.

Shaker table is for vibration testing. You can't simulate road conditions with that. No independent wheel movement. But disregarding that, how much would it cost to have my DSC controller tuned there? You contest that you don't need a dyno to tune it, yet it can't be done on the street either? Does DSC offer a free track rental with the purchase of a controller?

If it can't be tuned on the street, how good is it really to the enthusiast?

I'm just an average Joe with no affiliation to any shop or company. The link was not specifically focused on DSC SC, correct. However, it highlights the benefits of having the flexibility of finite suspension tunning offered by DSC SC. As for the shaker table, sadly you are mistaken to think these are JUST for vibration testing. This is just one of many aspects of using a shaker table. Again do some research and you will find plenty of information. Most common tables are 4 posts, however, race teams use 7 posts to better simulate the dynamics a race car experiences on the track, to include suspension dynamics, for the purpose of tuning said suspension. Here is another url on DSC with specific results on the controller, nothing else. Again you may no this gent. https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=504672

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by oldman

AFAIK no Shelby comes out with linelock / transbrake, that is a Dodge Demon deal.... I know crazy right. Point being GM can do it too because it has an auto trans backing up the LT4 and could do the same with a 6th gen LT5.

GT500 doesn't get the linelock the GTs have? Can anyone confirm?

Also, no transbrake on DCT car for obvious reasons.

[LESS1]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

Dude, I don't even know how to quote multiple people in one post so when I ignore for a while I'm really screwed and far behind lol.

I think you and I both agree that an ss with ss 1le wheels and tires is pretty damn close to an ss 1le, just with that. Add the lowering kit and 1le sway bars and the gap closes even further. However if you drive a stock ss with mrc and an ss 1le, I can definately tell the mrc feels a lot stiffer on the ss 1le. Idk the technical notes, but track mode vs track mode is noticeably different.

I've never driven an ss with the lowering kit and 1le sway bars so I don't know how those would impact that difference in mrc feel that I noticed though.

Don't forget the eLSD benefits and the 1LE brakes. SS, as you described without these, will not be able to stay with 1LE, especially as the laps pile up, SS brakes will go off long before 1LE barking becomes an issue, if it ever does for 1LE driver. Not sure about you but I make up loads of distance under braking with my SS 1LE on OEM brakes including pads.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by oldman

AFAIK no Shelby comes out with linelock / transbrake, that is a Dodge Demon deal.... I know crazy right. Point being GM can do it too because it has an auto trans backing up the LT4 and could do the same with a 6th gen LT5.

The GT350s have line lock.

[TheRealJA105]

Originally Posted by oldman

I merely said the hero runs are misleading and the flag drop along with 0-60 times are more reflective on how the car actually works on the road. This was AFTER the C8 all doing staging on a dry non-prep surface one after the other with apparently no issues. That is all I'm saying. The GT500 hero runs are less reflective of what the car is capable of in the wild.

Me personally, I'm more scared of an auto with 100 wear tires; which I see all the time on my private roadway....

For decades now the roads here were straight and long, now the people from CA are moving to Austin in droves bringing issues to a once fun and open area... shame really.

All hero runs are kind of misleading
Exactly, plenty of people drive around on 100TW DRs just fine and I would expect alot of GT500 owners to go that route.

Originally Posted by IneedAZ

I could be wrong in my thinking, but GM could dip into the sales of GT500's and Redeyes, or even regular Hellcats by getting off their duffs and release what everybody wants which is the LT5 ZL1 and not 2 years from now. The Hp/weight ratio is better than both top dogs and if GM would ease up on TQ management beat both cars in all areas.
They need to drop the boring commercials and give us what we are asking for. Dodge is stealing the sales by giving people the mind set we have lots of power. Redeye, Hellcat, 1320, etc.. I have been a Chevy guy since 1983, prior was Mopar. I now own both. I would ditch my Charger for a second ZL1 if it had the LT5.
I think we can agree, when you put Redeye, GT500, and ZL1 on drag radials, ZL1 is not first. Hard to overcome 100+hp if they are able to plant it.

Agree, but people still wouldn't get over the visibility and cargo/people space.

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

Dude, I don't even know how to quote multiple people in one post so when I ignore for a while I'm really screwed and far behind lol.
I think you and I both agree that an ss with ss 1le wheels and tires is pretty damn close to an ss 1le, just with that. Add the lowering kit and 1le sway bars and the gap closes even further. However if you drive a stock ss with mrc and an ss 1le, I can definitely tell the mrc feels a lot stiffer on the ss 1le. Idk the technical notes, but track mode vs track mode is noticeably different.
I've never driven an ss with the lowering kit and 1le sway bars so I don't know how those would impact that difference in mrc feel that I noticed though.

See the little " box next to the quote? Click that for all the people you want to multi-quote then just click quote on the last person you are quoting and it will pull them all in.
I'll trust you on the 1LE feeling that much stiffer as I've never driven one personally. But how much stiffer are the springs? Probably not much 10-20%? So the MRC is just tuned slightly different too is my thought. I just know my car is no slouch on the track.

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

I saw Cleetus McFarland's video on the c8 yesterday, and learned more about the c8 than from a lot of other people's if you can believe that lol.
I know in the gt500 pulling both paddles puts you in neutral, and maybe it can do what the c8 does and I just don't know it.. but on the c8 apparently you can hold the two paddles and rev up like depressing the clutch on a manual car and you can essentially clutch drop by releasing the paddles. Found that pretty cool and an easy alternative to LC.
I do think unless the driver can time it perfectly the gt500s delay will hurt it in actual racing, not just hunting good et's.

I think a lot (all?) DCTs are this way.

Originally Posted by minn19

The GT350s have line lock.

Doesn't every GT have line lock? I'm pretty sure my friend's 2015 GT did.