[IOMike]

I can't remember ever seeing a Mustang commercial.

[Bongos2U]

Originally Posted by CJack2005

I don’t understand why GM has not made(I have never seen one) a commercial for the 6th gen. Actually I can’t remember seeing any since the Camaro was brought back into production. I don’t count the cameos on the “jd power” commercials a commercial for the Camaro. But lord know they pump them out for Silverados, Buick and Cadillac. Seriously a commercial can be put on TV and the social medial outlets. It appears that depending on rebuys from previous/current Camaro owners and name recognition is the marketing plan. I hope there isn’t a repeat of 2002 and the line is pulled.

I remember laughing my a** off after first seeing the "Happy Graduation" commercial...

The only commercial to feature the 6th gen, the last one in this video, was only for audiences in the middle east.

[BlaqWhole]

Q4 sales numbers:
Mustang = 14,223
Challenger = 14,403
Camaro = 11,135

Means nothing. Why? Because we don't know how much of those sales translates into profit. Let's do some math.

Say Ford profits 5 bucks for each sale. That would bring them $71,115.
Say Dodge profits 5 1/2 bucks for each sale. That would bring them $79,216.50.
So even tho Ford outsold Dodge, just 50 more cents in profits per unit sold would mean that Dodge is actually doing better despite selling less.

So let's say the Camaro profits 6 1/2 bucks for each unit sold. That would put them at $72,377.50 in profit. Which is better than the Mustang but not quite as good as the Challenger.

So besides sales, the important info that is missing is how many units were produced, how much it costed to produce each unit based on trim and options, and how much those units sold for. Without all of this information there is no way of telling what is what or how well the cars are actually selling. We know how MANY are selling. But how WELL they are selling is what we need to know. Because for all we know, GM could be profiting 10 bucks a pop off each unit and Ford could be profiting $2.15 off each unit. For all we know, GM might actually need to sell only 5,000 Camaros and Ford might need to sell 13,500 Mustangs for each of them to turn a profit. In which case GM would be making a killing and Ford would be just making it by.

Another thing, look at how much the Mustangs sell for. Look at how many people have been driving off the lots with Mustangs way below MSRP and with tons of rebates attached and dealerships dropping prices. How much can Ford be profiting off them if everyone is getting them for thousands of dollars below MSRP? Challengers are typically more expensive but they are on a decades old platform that was bought and paid for a long time ago. So their production costs have got to be very low. Which explains why they made it soo long when their sales a few years ago were devastatingly low. I mean, they were being outsold by like 2 or 3 to 1 and they still survived because of profits. The Camaro is not selling well...from a surface POV. Like I said before, if GM is pulling profits and stacking money to the roof with Camaro sales and if Ford is just scraping by then who really is selling better?

Point is that unless you have all the info nobody knows what they're talking about and it is all guess work. If someone said "my Camaro broke, can you fix it" and gave you no other info you wouldn't even know where to start. So saying "Camaro sales are low" without important details is just as silly. When we have all the details, then we'll know. Until then, sales by itself means absolutely nothing.

[Gunkk]

Q3 '18 profit figures...

Q3 North American results
Earnings Margin
GM $2.83 billion 10.20%
FCA $2.21 billion 10.20%
Ford $1.96 billion 8.80%

https://www.autonews.com/article/201...making-muscles

And Q4 earnings #s...
GM 2.1B
FCA 1.3B
Ford -0.1B <-- oh yeah, mustang sales doing just fine.... "We're makin' it up on volume!" -J. Hackett

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Gunkk

Q3 '18 profit figures...


https://www.autonews.com/article/201...making-muscles

And Q4 earnings #s...
GM 2.1B
FCA 1.3B
Ford -0.1B <-- oh yeah, mustang sales doing just fine.... "We're makin' it up on volume!" -J. Hackett

THIS info is more important that Camaro sales. GM is doing good. Even if, and that is a big "IF", if the Camaro itself is down on profit, GM is still making enough money across the board that they could keep the Camaro alive. Same with Ford and the Mustang. There is no threat to any of these car's continued production. So maybe people can stop being all doomsday about sales. LOL! Thanks for posting this info.

[Zack46]

Originally Posted by kaz1961

I am happy that there are less Camaros around, makes mine stand out more. If I wanted to see 20 other cars just like mine every day I would have bought a Stang.

Or a Challenger.........

[Bluecyclone]

Maybe this shot will brighten your day, I recently found an SS friend who just bought this Camaro. I enjoyed our talk, hopefully we can "run thru the twisty's" together soon. Red is the fastest color, Lol.

[Number 3]

The biggest reason the Camaro is still around at the current volumes is it shares the plant with the ATS and CTS in Lansing Michigan. That and the tooling is now paid for so it doesn't take much to keep building them because you already have the plant running for two other cars you have to keep building.

It in no way would be able to support a plant on it's own. That's why the Camaro died in 2001. It couldn't support the plant on it's own.

As I recall, the 2000/2001 Camaro had maintained the volume for the high transaction price V8s. But the volume dip in the in V6 models is what killed the car.

Also "lucky" is the fact that GM will have new versions of the ATS and CTS coming out in the next 12 to 18 months. So the plant will stay up and running.

And BlaqWhole you are correct. I've been saying this for years. But don't assume the Camaro is more profitable. It's built on the expensive Alpha architecture and it's built alongside two other HORRIBLY selling cars from Cadillac. I believe, for the time being anyway, the Fusion is also built in Flat Rock. Higher volumes and multiple shifts make a car much cheaper to build on a per unit basis. And as you point out, we don't know those details.

I believe the Camaro sticks around for a while. My concern is what's next? At the current volumes and price, a Gen7 likely isn't in the cards. So we will either get a much more expensive Camaro intended to slot into the C7 Corvette price range or we won't get one at all.

And only to stir pot, it's possible that if the C8 mid engine Corvette goes up a LOT in price, which will make the Corvette volumes go down even more, that GM will make a NG Camaro off the current Front Engine Corvette architecture and build it a Bowling Green to keep that plants volumes up. It's been looked at before.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Gunkk

Q3 '18 profit figures...


https://www.autonews.com/article/201...making-muscles

And Q4 earnings #s...
GM 2.1B
FCA 1.3B
Ford -0.1B <-- oh yeah, mustang sales doing just fine.... "We're makin' it up on volume!" -J. Hackett

That was GM’s motto that led them right into bankruptcy.

We know, thanks to our old friend MEDESIN, that Camaro’s average transaction price on retail sales is much higher than either Ford or Dodge. Then factor in that Camaro’s fleet volume is ~2% compared to ~30% for the others, volume isn’t the only consideration to profitability.

Ultimately, GM wants to compete in several segments with coupes and sedans (CT4/CT5). Camaro provides volume to that bigger picture as well as volume to key Corvette components.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by hotlap

That was GM’s motto that led them right into bankruptcy.

We know, thanks to our old friend MEDESIN, that Camaro’s average transaction price on retail sales is much higher than either Ford or Dodge. Then factor in that Camaro’s fleet volume is ~2% compared to ~30% for the others, volume isn’t the only consideration to profitability.

Ultimately, GM wants to compete in several segments with coupes and sedans (CT4/CT5). Camaro provides volume to that bigger picture as well as volume to key Corvette components.

What Corvette parts are on the Camaro????? Other than engine and transmission (which are also in the trucks) I can't think of much if any.

Also as you/we don't know the business case, having a higher transaction price than a Mustang is meaningless. Internally GM used this "excuse" all the time. It's almost as bad to say "we have a better mix" than it is to say, "we are making it up in volume". We don't know the tooling and development costs. We don't know the plant overhead costs. We don't know what GM's contribution margin that the Camaro has. You forget that GM has a much, MUCH higher bill for pensions and healthcare than Ford does. Each and every Camaro has a higher bill to pay back to the company.

A higher transaction price (better mix) is only good if it's actually higher than what GM planned the program around. All an ATP means is GM is selling more highly contented SSs. The "mix" is on the higher end. But it means nothing in the real sense. If GM sold two Camaros with an ATP of $50,000 you would be losing a crap ton of $$$ on the Camaro. You still need volume.

[wjones14]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Another thing, look at how much the Mustangs sell for. Look at how many people have been driving off the lots with Mustangs way below MSRP and with tons of rebates attached and dealerships dropping prices. How much can Ford be profiting off them if everyone is getting them for thousands of dollars below MSRP?

BlaqWhole, can you explain how this is any different from Camaro sales? I read the Camaro forums here almost daily, and I don't recall a single post ever saying someone paid MSRP for their Camaro. Quite the opposite actually. Most posters brag about how they got their Camaro for well under MSRP.

(Personally I take most of these posts with a grain of salt. All I know for sure is that I bought my 2SS 1LE off the showroom floor for $3000 off MSRP, a discount of 5.8%. That discount included a $2000 "Nameplate" rebate because we have two Minis in our household. According to most posts here, I got ripped off by only getting a 5.8% discount.)

Anyway, forum data is anecdotal and unreliable. Do we have any data from an organization that tracks actual sales data, like TrueCar, where we see that Mustangs sell with bigger discounts than Camaros?

Thanks.

[Dysan911]

Originally Posted by kaz1961

I am happy that there are less Camaros around, makes mine stand out more. If I wanted to see 20 other cars just like mine every day I would have bought a Stang.

I couldn't agree more!. Around here all you typically see are v6 Challengers and mustangs galore!.

[Outlaw_SS1LE]

Originally Posted by CJack2005

I don’t understand why GM has not made(I have never seen one) a commercial for the 6th gen. Actually I can’t remember seeing any since the Camaro was brought back into production. I don’t count the cameos on the “jd power” commercials a commercial for the Camaro. But lord know they pump them out for Silverados, Buick and Cadillac. Seriously a commercial can be put on TV and the social medial outlets. It appears that depending on rebuys from previous/current Camaro owners and name recognition is the marketing plan. I hope there isn’t a repeat of 2002 and the line is pulled.

I posted this in the Dodge thread.....a video for the 'making' of an upcoming Camaro commercial.....not sure what market it is made for, but promising none the less.