[frelira]

Hey guys, I decided to come here instead of the facebook groups. When you post asking about meth there they assume you're a Florida man looking for drugs.

I have a Procharged 18' SS. Mods:

-Motor was fully built by LME (still 377) to handle 1500hp.
-The cam is the BTR stage 2 blower cam.
-E85 (car is tuned for about E70)
-Longtubes--->no cats--->Corsa.

Fuel system: LT4 pump, LT4 injectors, Aux pump under pass. side.

I don't know the exact pully combo between the ati damper and the procharger pulley but I usually see around 9 psi.

Car made 753whp as it sits. Tuned by G force in Texas.

I bought the car this way. Previous owner reached out and I ended up with all the build sheets and info I needed, so I lucked out big time there.


My question: I want to upgrade the p1sc to the D1x. I see procharger can do that and I am thrilled. But the issue becomes fueling. I really did not want to use water/meth for obvious reasons. This car is rock solid reliable and has a great tune. I can daily it. The meth scares me as one simple failure can cause a catastrophe.

For some reason, most people that tune these cars want meth instead of larger injectors etc. and I need some input on why and how safe it would be to use meth like that. I get the Direct Injection system sucks and is basically the reason why but some others have told me you can just upgrade the injectors and that fixes the issue. The closest place to me that is known is RPM in delaware. (I am in PA) They are in the meth camp and even have their own kit.

I guess I just need to know next steps so I can upgrade the blower and still keep the car pretty reliable.

Thanks!

[Chrome383Z]

Port injection. Research the toohighpsi kit on here. That’s my plan down the road. I wish that was available before I spent the $$$ on +30 injectors and LPE pump. Could have saved some money but that was before they got stupid expensive like they are now. I think LPE pump is like $3k now I paid $2k just over a year ago.

The simplicity of DI was worth it to me then, but at todays prices and how far you can go with port I would definitely look into that.

[frelira]

Originally Posted by Chrome383Z

Port injection. Research the toohighpsi kit on here. That’s my plan down the road. I wish that was available before I spent the $$$ on +30 injectors and LPE pump. Could have saved some money but that was before they got stupid expensive like they are now. I think LPE pump is like $3k now I paid $2k just over a year ago.

Have the +30s been enough for you?

[KingLT1]

There are a couple options.

a) If you want to stay all DI for fueling with no meth, then you need XDI +30 injectors, LPE HPFP combined with your 38% lobe cam. This will be good for around 900whp on E60. +65 injectors will get you north of 1k whp on E60.

b) Too high psi port injection system with reflex controller.

option B will provide even more fuel headroom support that option A for less money but you will want to dedicate the aux low side pump for the port system and run -10 lines all the way up to the port injection rails if pushing the 1k whp territory.

[frelira]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

There are a couple options.

a) If you want to stay all DI for fueling with no meth, then you need XDI +30 injectors, LPE HPFP combined with your 38% lobe cam. This will be good for around 900whp on E60. +65 injectors will get you north of 1k whp on E60.

b) Too high psi port injection system with reflex controller.

option B will provide even more fuel headroom support that option A for less money but you will want to dedicate the aux low side pump for the port system and run -10 lines all the way up to the port injection rails if pushing the 1k whp territory.

I appreciate you commenting. I have been reading some of your posts back to 2020 haha.

What would you do? Would you trust the majority pushing the meth kit? Or go one of the options you posted?

[KingLT1]

I personally have XDI +30 and LPE HPFP but I was able to acquire these fuel system components when they were less than half the price of what they cost today. In your situation I would look at going port injection. You might contact Complete Street Performance. They are in PA and do a lot of "Non Meth" builds.

[frelira]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

I personally have XDI +30 and LPE HPFP but I was able to acquire these fuel system components when they were less than half the price of what they cost today. In your situation I would look at going port injection. You might contact Complete Street Performance. They are in PA and do a lot of "Non Meth" builds.

You know what, someone else just reccomended them as well. I will give them a call! Thanks brother.

BTW if you wanna see the car, my youtube channel is https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1N...cwTvw6FqHFh2Jg

[Joshinator99]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

There are a couple options.

a) If you want to stay all DI for fueling with no meth, then you need XDI +30 injectors, LPE HPFP combined with your 38% lobe cam. This will be good for around 900whp on E60. +65 injectors will get you north of 1k whp on E60.

b) Too high psi port injection system with reflex controller.

option B will provide even more fuel headroom support that option A for less money but you will want to dedicate the aux low side pump for the port system and run -10 lines all the way up to the port injection rails if pushing the 1k whp territory.

Agreed.

OP, feel free to take a look at my sig for what can be done on DI only on just E50. I could push that number up another 150-200 HP if I switched to race gas too…. But like King and others said, the PI systems are getting so much cheaper than big DI stuff now that it’s a tempting way to go.

[adamjwilson]

Why not XDI +30 injectors AND meth? Not sure why most everyone is against Meth (or lack of the benefits of it). I run it and see both the benefits of fueling, cooling, and cleaning the valves all at the same time. Some people don't want to fool with filling the meth up in your car, but mine let's me know when it is low on Meth, so it is no big deal.
Another option of course is Port Injection, but that can get pricey just as well (currently cheaper than the LT4 stuff) but allows for more ceiling that you intend to use.
OP... suggest you reach out to RPM to get some opinions as well, as we have plenty here

[cjperformance]

Originally Posted by adamjwilson

Why not XDI +30 injectors AND meth? Not sure why most everyone is against Meth (or lack of the benefits of it). I run it and see both the benefits of fueling, cooling, and cleaning the valves all at the same time. Some people don't want to fool with filling the meth up in your car, but mine let's me know when it is low on Meth, so it is no big deal.
Another option of course is Port Injection, but that can get pricey just as well (currently cheaper than the LT4 stuff) but allows for more ceiling that you intend to use.
OP... suggest you reach out to RPM to get some opinions as well, as we have plenty here

The general consensus is doing something like 20% of your fueling as meth is "bad" (not going in depth here) on an SBE, but adding a small amount to cool the air charge is fine.

I think typically what you see when people say they are "adding meth" is going lean on DI and making up the fueling with meth. Which supposedly will actually cool intake charge, but ultimately increase temps inside the cyl. In addition, the wet distribution characteristics of a "dry intake" configuration cause some cyls to be leaner than others. This is the perfect storm for SBE. As opposed to an overall cooling effect of running E.

On a forged BE, no idea whats acceptable, but the options are much more open.

In hindsight, if i knew in the beginning what i know now, id have gone straight for port inj.

[cjperformance]

Originally Posted by frelira

Hey guys, I decided to come here instead of the facebook groups. When you post asking about meth there they assume you're a Florida man looking for drugs.

I have a Procharged 18' SS. Mods:

-Motor was fully built by LME (still 377) to handle 1500hp.
-The cam is the BTR stage 2 blower cam.
-E85 (car is tuned for about E70)
-Longtubes--->no cats--->Corsa.

Fuel system: LT4 pump, LT4 injectors, Aux pump under pass. side.

I don't know the exact pully combo between the ati damper and the procharger pulley but I usually see around 9 psi.

Car made 753whp as it sits. Tuned by G force in Texas.

I bought the car this way. Previous owner reached out and I ended up with all the build sheets and info I needed, so I lucked out big time there.


My question: I want to upgrade the p1sc to the D1x. I see procharger can do that and I am thrilled. But the issue becomes fueling. I really did not want to use water/meth for obvious reasons. This car is rock solid reliable and has a great tune. I can daily it. The meth scares me as one simple failure can cause a catastrophe.

For some reason, most people that tune these cars want meth instead of larger injectors etc. and I need some input on why and how safe it would be to use meth like that. I get the Direct Injection system sucks and is basically the reason why but some others have told me you can just upgrade the injectors and that fixes the issue. The closest place to me that is known is RPM in delaware. (I am in PA) They are in the meth camp and even have their own kit.

I guess I just need to know next steps so I can upgrade the blower and still keep the car pretty reliable.

Thanks!

Ill again say... im just a noob who pretends to know things. Learning constantly. Heres my 2 cents (again).

Regarding meth failure... versus a port inj failure... which i did temporarily have a port failure early on.

If you go with port inj, and you are running between 35 to 40% port inj, and you have a failure with the port injection, either one cyl or all cyls, you are going to go 35 to 40% lean... while thats not great, it also would be SO lean that chances of piston/cyl damage would be less severe at say 1.3 to 1.4 lambda.... versus say... between .87 - 1.0 lambda where you might be if you lost meth inj.

Its just so lean its not going to make any power. Compared to the configs ive seen where meth provides just the enrichment, loss of meth would put you in the IMO worse zone of that .9 - 1.0 lambda where big power still being made without enrichment for cooling.

[adamjwilson]

The general consensus is doing something like 20% of your fueling as meth is "bad" (not going in depth here) on an SBE, but adding a small amount to cool the air charge is fine.

But again... in my instance, I am not near 20% of my fueling set up. Looking at OP's engine set up with assumed forged internals, it can handle the Meth with the proper LT4 fueling/PI set up and a good Tuner. I don't really see the benefits of E until I am above ~E60ish anyways, but I run full E with an occasional tank of pump gas 93.

[cjperformance]

Originally Posted by adamjwilson

The general consensus is doing something like 20% of your fueling as meth is "bad" (not going in depth here) on an SBE, but adding a small amount to cool the air charge is fine.

But again... in my instance, I am not near 20% of my fueling set up. Looking at OP's engine set up with assumed forged internals, it can handle the Meth with the proper LT4 fueling/PI set up and a good Tuner. I don't really see the benefits of E until I am above ~E60ish anyways, but I run full E with an occasional tank of pump gas 93.

Was only trying address why meth might be viewed as everyone being against it. It seems to be typically viewed as "universally bad" on SBE.

I have no beef with your setup . Both you and OP are forged unlike me. I dont think most folks on the board would think a PROPER meth setup is universally bad for all cases.

He does however have a procharger, and doesn't mention an intake so he could have a dry style intake.

[adamjwilson]

Originally Posted by cjperformance

Was only trying address why meth might be viewed as everyone being against it. It seems to be typically viewed as "universally bad" on SBE.

I have no beef with your setup . Both you and OP are forged unlike me. I dont think most folks on the board would think a PROPER meth setup is universally bad for all cases.

He does however have a procharger, and doesn't mention an intake so he could have a dry style intake.

Agreed If done right, Meth is not a bad thing. Not for everyone, and it has to compliment the right set up and have a great Tuner. Totally agree that adding Meth just for fueling is BAD, and should not be done on the SBE.
Honestly, if I had to do it all over again (I just wanted a street friendly car- not track), I would want to be in the 650-700rwhp range. Alot less headache and money
My current set up is borderline crazy for the street even with DR, but it is not my daily, so it is what it is (just needed a car to thin out the Coyote crowd up here)