[BOYD3800SII]

I was wondering if anyone has tried this before so I just started a thread. The basic principle is pretty simple. Create less resistance in the vehicle electrical system by using more ground wires. Makes a greater overall difference in how the engine performs and torque, power fuel economy...yadda, yadda. There are tons of kits out there and don't expect to gain like 5 or 10 HP doing this. It seems gimmicky but really it DOES work well whether you are stock or modded. Its really cheap and you should be able to do it for around $50 to $60.

I purchased 16ft of 4 gauge wire and 5 pairs of 4 gauge wire crimp connectors costing me about $38
Also i purchased 2 switch to starter cables from AZ which cost me $16

I attached the two switch to starter cables tto the negative terminal on the battery and then to the same spot as the stock chassis ground in the trunk.

Afterwards, I added three additional grounds to the engine: Top of the Alternator and on both drivers and passenger side valve covers.

Finally, I added grounds to the top of the power steering motor and the drivers chassis ground in the engine bay.

I really don't think it matters exactly where you mount the wires as long as they are on good grounds and some are connected to the motor. This might even be considered as a little overkill all the same.
This made for a really impressive difference in how the car sounds, idles and performs. At full throttle it snatches gears and pulls harder. I cant tell you how much of a gain I got but using the butt dyno is good enough for me. . Like I said.. its a really cheap mod so maybe someone will give it a shot.

[Dustya]

I have heard of things like this but I am skeptical on newer cars. Especially with DI the theory behind a better ground to the engine block is cleaner power for the spark plugs however if you are getting proper voltages and not getting a misfires or anything adding a ground isnt going to help. Ground it all day long and unless your improving something it becomes psychological improvement.

This is also mainly used for cars with alot of Audio Equipment it significantly helps with dimming of lights etc.

Throttle response etc.. is all computer controlled adding grounds is not going to improve throttle response a data table is a data table its going to do what its programmed todo.

You can also seriously screw things up if you ground the car incorrectly so this is a tough one, Unless you are logging lower voltages on your sensors or coils then what is required I personally wouldn't do this.

[cellsafemode]

copper's resistance is greatly lower than steel. But aluminum is also much better than steel. Granted, you also have much more metal (in the case of steel / aluminum body) than most cables. So much of that difference is gonna be eaten up by the larger surface area ...at the expense of adding a certain amount of capacitance to the circuit.

None of this will do anything for your engine unless the spark coils dont have time to charge to max voltage before discharging.

You'll have a much more significant voltage drop in the spark plug wires to the coil since most of those are just graphite with relatively high resistance to minimize EMF and these will deteriorate over time as the current destroys them and they become brittle and crack internally. The spark plug wire will be the limiting factor of spark plug voltage unless your coils aren't reaching their designated charge voltage before discharging. It's extremely unlikely your coil is not reaching it's max charge on a modern car unless you've heavily modified the timing of your engine or the type of spark plugs you're using.

That's why the non-snakeoil use of this extra grounding is usually found in crazy audio setups, because there the limitations of the power to ground circuit are significant, since they dont have to deal with a high resistance spark plug wire.

Even still, the added weight of a bunch of ground wires will almost certainly eliminate or turn negative any benefit you see in a modern car constructed using modern techniques and materials.

[BOYD3800SII]

Originally Posted by Dustya

I have heard of things like this but I am skeptical on newer cars. Especially with DI the theory behind a better ground to the engine block is cleaner power for the spark plugs however if you are getting proper voltages and not getting a misfires or anything adding a ground isnt going to help. Ground it all day long and unless your improving something it becomes psychological improvement.

This is also mainly used for cars with alot of Audio Equipment it significantly helps with dimming of lights etc.

Throttle response etc.. is all computer controlled adding grounds is not going to improve throttle response a data table is a data table its going to do what its programmed todo.

You can also seriously screw things up if you ground the car incorrectly so this is a tough one, Unless you are logging lower voltages on your sensors or coils then what is required I personally wouldn't do this.

Oh, I can see your point clearly. I have done this on two other cars, and It would take an idiot to screw it up. Which is why there are some kits out there that make it easy. I admit that the difference is small but the car performs better to a point where you can actually feel it. To some it seems not likely at all, but I encourage people to try it and see for themselves. I for one do not believe in the voltage stabilizer thingy that sometimes is sold with the kits out there. But providing less resistance in the system together does help.

[BOYD3800SII]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

copper's resistance is greatly lower than steel. But aluminum is also much better than steel. Granted, you also have much more metal (in the case of steel / aluminum body) than most cables. So much of that difference is gonna be eaten up by the larger surface area ...at the expense of adding a certain amount of capacitance to the circuit.

None of this will do anything for your engine unless the spark coils dont have time to charge to max voltage before discharging.

You'll have a much more significant voltage drop in the spark plug wires to the coil since most of those are just graphite with relatively high resistance to minimize EMF and these will deteriorate over time as the current destroys them and they become brittle and crack internally. The spark plug wire will be the limiting factor of spark plug voltage unless your coils aren't reaching their designated charge voltage before discharging. It's extremely unlikely your coil is not reaching it's max charge on a modern car unless you've heavily modified the timing of your engine or the type of spark plugs you're using.

That's why the non-snakeoil use of this extra grounding is usually found in crazy audio setups, because there the limitations of the power to ground circuit are significant, since they dont have to deal with a high resistance spark plug wire.

Even still, the added weight of a bunch of ground wires will almost certainly eliminate or turn negative any benefit you see in a modern car constructed using modern techniques and materials.

No there is not much weight at all... we are talkin about 4gauge copper wire. about only weighs about 3 lbs. Also, you can do it with less than 10 ft. I had a lot of extra wire, so i put it to good use... If you use the pre made switch to starter cables its even easier. I think it would work even if you just added additional grounds from the engine to the main charge port in the engine bay. Leave the battery in the trunk alone..

Some of the kits out there only come with 5 wires and they are much shorter anyway. Like I said not everyone will believe in it, and I am only basing my observation on a personal experience. It sounds crazy but if you try it, I am sure that you will see where I am coming from.

[Dustya]

Originally Posted by BOYD3800SII

Oh, I can see your point clearly. I have done this on two other cars, and It would take an idiot to screw it up. Which is why there are some kits out there that make it easy. I admit that the difference is small but the car performs better to a point where you can actually feel it. To some it seems not likely at all, but I encourage people to try it and see for themselves. I for one do not believe in the voltage stabilizer thingy that sometimes is sold with the kits out there. But providing less resistance in the system together does help.

Its definitely a interesting concept I just cannot see how it can possible improve performance. Lets use car audio again for a example cleaner more stable power means safer cleaner sound with less risk of spikes. But if you have an audio setup and you measure all your voltages and ohms and see no value increase or decrease at maximum operation adding grounds wont do anything. The same holds true for the computer in the car. The only way it could possible improve performance is if for some reason you had unstable voltages to your coil packs or o2 sensors causing bad spark or bad A/F adjustments to the ECM causing it to run the wrong timing table or pull timing etc.. However I have ran 100s of logs from stock to modified and never had any sort of voltage fluctuations on anything that would effect performance therefore the computer data is going to do what its going to do. So if I add grounds all my voltage readings will be the same the computer is going to do the same thing.. Do you see my point ?

Either way I am no expert and in theory I am not sure you can over ground things. But I also feel you are only as good as your weakest link and I do not think these cars exceed any sort of grounding capacity of its current setup.

This is a fun conversation though :-)

[BOYD3800SII]

Originally Posted by Dustya

Its definitely a interesting concept I just cannot see how it can possible improve performance. Lets use car audio again for a example cleaner more stable power means safer cleaner sound with less risk of spikes. But if you have an audio setup and you measure all your voltages and ohms and see no value increase or decrease at maximum operation adding grounds wont do anything. The same holds true for the computer in the car. The only way it could possible improve performance is if for some reason you had unstable voltages to your coil packs or o2 sensors causing bad spark or bad A/F adjustments to the ECM causing it to run the wrong timing table or pull timing etc.. However I have ran 100s of logs from stock to modified and never had any sort of voltage fluctuations on anything that would effect performance therefore the computer data is going to do what its going to do. So if I add grounds all my voltage readings will be the same the computer is going to do the same thing.. Do you see my point ?

Either way I am no expert and in theory I am not sure you can over ground things. But I also feel you are only as good as your weakest link and I do not think these cars exceed any sort of grounding capacity of its current setup.

This is a fun conversation though :-)

I fully agree... I am no scientist, but I know how a butt dyno feels . Its really not fair to compare different vehicles because some people had good results, some marginal, and some did not gain anything. HOWEVER, is say go get 5 switch to starter cables from AZ or Oreillys and hook em up like I did. (I think the longest they have is 56 and 72 inches) 2 to the battery and 3 directly to the engine one on each valve cover and the top of the alternator case. Then go do a couple of hard pulls and see if you get a bigger grin that stretches from ear to ear than i did.

My mods are pretty tame... I have the AIRAID JR intake, filter, throttle body spacer, polished TB, and two turbine exhaust mufflers. I have not disconnected the exhaust valves either. Since I'm not stock what I may do is to disconnect each mount point and do a before and after zero to 60 run using an accelerator timer app to see if that shows anything.

[Raptor Jesus]

You can google this and it's completely bunk on modern cars. You really think they would engineer and produce a car and leave power and economy on the table over $5 worth of grounding straps? Come on, don't be gullible.

[Evil-Bee-NH]

Originally Posted by Raptor Jesus

You can google this and it's completely bunk on modern cars. You really think they would engineer and produce a car and leave power and economy on the table over $5 worth of grounding straps? Come on, don't be gullible.

Yes no automaker ever would cut out $5 of easy expense over a whole range of platforms that's just unheard of. God please how did this guy survive the meteor... While i don't see this old school, big 3 upgrade do anythong for performance on modern cars maybe for a massive show car audio it could help a little.

[Raptor Jesus]

Originally Posted by Evil-Bee-NH

Yes no automaker ever would cut out $5 of easy expense over a whole range of platforms that's just unheard of. God please how did this guy survive the meteor... While i don't see this old school, big 3 upgrade do anythong for performance on modern cars maybe for a massive show car audio it could help a little.

Wow... you posted in the V6 forum without some reference to your shitbox 4 banger time bomb. Are you sick today?

[Evil-Bee-NH]

Originally Posted by Raptor Jesus

Wow... you posted in the V6 forum without some reference to your shitbox 4 banger time bomb. Are you sick today?

Haha my time bomb is just fine sorry you can't figure out tuning must be the age setting in. I mean 20 yrs. Of tuning 70% out the window on these new fangled cars and ECMs must be painful.

[BOYD3800SII]

Originally Posted by Raptor Jesus

You can google this and it's completely bunk on modern cars. You really think they would engineer and produce a car and leave power and economy on the table over $5 worth of grounding straps? Come on, don't be gullible.

Sometimes personal experience is better than personal opinion, and from my vantage point its not considered gullible if you see a small gain or improvement in idle, smoothness, or something tangible.
It would be nice to have someone other than myself try this simple mod however to each his own.

[cellsafemode]

simple way to prove your case.

take a meter and measure the voltage at the coils before you add your extra ground straps.

Measure the voltage at the same positions after adding them.

That will give you a pretty good idea on if it makes an actual difference. If you want to go further. disconnect the battery and measure the resistance with it connected and without it connected at points external to the cable but touching the same mounting points. Considering that spark plug coils in a v8 consume about 4amps total per second ...you would need a fairly significant difference in resistance to cause a voltage drop that makes a difference to the coils in the time it needs to reach spark charge.

But hey, if it makes you feel better, it's worth it. Though, if you notice a difference in how your car runs after adding an extra ground wire to a body panel, I'd be more inclined to think that there's a loose connection somewhere that could have been tightened up instead to offer the same benefit than your extra foot of copper (or more likely, aluminum) wire will provide over what is usually a much larger surface area of aluminum or steel.

[Dustya]

Originally Posted by Raptor Jesus

Wow... you posted in the V6 forum without some reference to your shitbox 4 banger time bomb. Are you sick today?

HEY HEY no enemies here.. we deal with this from the v8 crowd enough no reason for carry over take it to facebook lol