[JamesNoBrakes]

Originally Posted by cignul9

Jalopnik interviewed Ben Haushalter, senior manager of product planning for Toyota’s sports cars, at the Detroit Auto Show. Here's the article: https://jalopnik.com/here-s-where-to...upr-1831780403

When asked about the power difference between the BMW Z4 and the Supra, this was his answer:

“I don’t know,” he said. “We don’t know a lot about what BMW’s done with their engine since we’ve broken off and started doing our own thing.”
.

This kind of shows the opposite:

https://jalopnik.com/what-we-found-w...sup-1831800550

[Deputy Dog]

Originally Posted by ecko04

It’s incorrect. What was discussed in the thread you posted was a video of a dealership employee rattling off specs on the 2019s and getting his numbers wrong. Everyone else that chimes into that thread indicated as much.

Motor Trend on the 2019s

The rear-drive 2019 Camaro’s base engine is a 2.0-liter turbo-four that makes 275 hp and 295 lb-ft of torque. The four-cylinder Camaro is available with a standard six-speed manual delivering an EPA-rated 20/30 mpg city/highway or an optional eight-speed automatic (22/31 mpg). The available 3.6-liter V-6 (availability begins on the 1LT trim) is rated at 335 hp and 284 lb-ft and delivers 16/27 mpg with the six-speed manual and 19/29 mpg with the eight-speed automatic. Powering the SS is a 455-hp, 455-lb-ft 6.2-liter V-8 that is rated at 16/24 mpg with the six-speed manual and 16/27 mpg with the 10-speed automatic. A supercharged 6.2-liter V-8 that pumps out 650 hp and 650 lb-ft powers the Camaro ZL1 and is rated at 14/20 mpg with the six-speed manual and 13/21 mpg with the 10-speed.

Car and Driver on the 2019s

Every Camaro SS features Chevy's iconic small-block V-8, with 455 horsepower and 455 lb-ft of torque. Its linear power delivery and chest-compressing acceleration are enhanced by the optional dual-mode exhaust, which erupts with a sharp bark at startup and thunderous sounds during wide-open-throttle blasts. The standard six-speed manual transmission maintains the enthusiast spirit, and the two automatic transmissions snap off swift shifts. The base 275-hp four-cylinder isn't slow—we tested a manual model that made it to 60 mph in an earnest 5.1 seconds. But uneven throttle responses and unpleasant, unsporting sounds accompanied its dull demeanor. On the other hand, upgrading to the 335-hp naturally aspirated V-6 completely changes the car's character. The gutsy V-6 has its own distinctly searing soundtrack and redeems generations of ho-hum six-cylinders.

Chevrolet




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Here's a riddle....Why do new modern engines use engine covers?....


....because.....they are butt ugly!

[Deputy Dog]

Originally Posted by ecko04

It’s incorrect. What was discussed in the thread you posted was a video of a dealership employee rattling off specs on the 2019s and getting his numbers wrong. Everyone else that chimes into that thread indicated as much.

Motor Trend on the 2019s

The rear-drive 2019 Camaro’s base engine is a 2.0-liter turbo-four that makes 275 hp and 295 lb-ft of torque. The four-cylinder Camaro is available with a standard six-speed manual delivering an EPA-rated 20/30 mpg city/highway or an optional eight-speed automatic (22/31 mpg). The available 3.6-liter V-6 (availability begins on the 1LT trim) is rated at 335 hp and 284 lb-ft and delivers 16/27 mpg with the six-speed manual and 19/29 mpg with the eight-speed automatic. Powering the SS is a 455-hp, 455-lb-ft 6.2-liter V-8 that is rated at 16/24 mpg with the six-speed manual and 16/27 mpg with the 10-speed automatic. A supercharged 6.2-liter V-8 that pumps out 650 hp and 650 lb-ft powers the Camaro ZL1 and is rated at 14/20 mpg with the six-speed manual and 13/21 mpg with the 10-speed.

Car and Driver on the 2019s

Every Camaro SS features Chevy's iconic small-block V-8, with 455 horsepower and 455 lb-ft of torque. Its linear power delivery and chest-compressing acceleration are enhanced by the optional dual-mode exhaust, which erupts with a sharp bark at startup and thunderous sounds during wide-open-throttle blasts. The standard six-speed manual transmission maintains the enthusiast spirit, and the two automatic transmissions snap off swift shifts. The base 275-hp four-cylinder isn't slow—we tested a manual model that made it to 60 mph in an earnest 5.1 seconds. But uneven throttle responses and unpleasant, unsporting sounds accompanied its dull demeanor. On the other hand, upgrading to the 335-hp naturally aspirated V-6 completely changes the car's character. The gutsy V-6 has its own distinctly searing soundtrack and redeems generations of ho-hum six-cylinders.

Chevrolet




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Remember when engines were actually....pretty?


http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/eng...ress-up-ideas/

[Lazerbrainz2k3]

Originally Posted by WCKD 1LE

It's pretty pathetic that after 10 years the Subaru STI a $40,000 base (305hp) is getting out worked by a LT trim Camaro!
You know throw a 1LE package on this platform and you have the ultimate affordable daily, track car.

This year Subaru is bringing over the S206 model which final gives them 345hp and yet I still believe the LT1LE Maro will send it to school!

Two different kinds of performance cars focused on two very different parts of the performance spectrum, but 305hp is still pretty good out of a turbo-4. After all, the turbo-4 Camaro LT is 30hp behind that figure.

Of course AWD counts for a lot in those first couple seconds of acceleration. I believe the latest STi's acceleration is about on par with a non-1LE Gen 5 SS, which puts it well ahead of even the automatic Gen 6 LT V6.

I doubt very many STi owners would sweat trying to lose a Camaro on the street or the track if it didn't have an SS or ZL1 badge.

[Raptor Jesus]

Originally Posted by Lazerbrainz2k3

Two different kinds of performance cars focused on two very different parts of the performance spectrum, but 305hp is still pretty good out of a turbo-4. After all, the turbo-4 Camaro LT is 30hp behind that figure.

Of course AWD counts for a lot in those first couple seconds of acceleration. I believe the latest STi's acceleration is about on par with a non-1LE Gen 5 SS, which puts it well ahead of even the automatic Gen 6 LT V6.

I doubt very many STi owners would sweat trying to lose a Camaro on the street or the track if it didn't have an SS or ZL1 badge.

According to magazine results the new 2018 sti gets beat by a lt v6 in every performance category. Street or track it would lose.

[IMadeYouReadThis]

Originally Posted by Lazerbrainz2k3

Two different kinds of performance cars focused on two very different parts of the performance spectrum, but 305hp is still pretty good out of a turbo-4. After all, the turbo-4 Camaro LT is 30hp behind that figure.

Of course AWD counts for a lot in those first couple seconds of acceleration. I believe the latest STi's acceleration is about on par with a non-1LE Gen 5 SS, which puts it well ahead of even the automatic Gen 6 LT V6.

I doubt very many STi owners would sweat trying to lose a Camaro on the street or the track if it didn't have an SS or ZL1 badge.

It's not 1989 man the V6 is a kick-ass car

[Hops]

Originally Posted by Lazerbrainz2k3

I doubt very many STi owners would sweat trying to lose a Camaro on the street or the track if it didn't have an SS or ZL1 badge.

A $50k WRX STI Type RA loses to a camaro v6 1le in the lightning lap:

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...storical-data/

[Wyzz Kydd]

I own an SS and drove a loaner RS for about a week not too long ago. You’re fooling yourself if you think they are in any way comparable. One is a sports car, the other is a sporty car. 5.1 0-60 isn’t much nowadays. Under hard acceleration the V6 is clearly struggling. To me it was saying ‘I’m trying, I’m trying’. Under hard acceleration the V8 is in its element and is saying ‘let’s go!’ The torque is where you really see the difference. The V8 has almost double the torque. Yeah the V6 is a bit lighter, but not enough to make up for that. I’m not trying to bash your car, but get real. The V6 doesn’t even belong in a conversation including the V8. If you want a sports car buy one, don’t buy a sporty car then try to pass it off as a sports car because it isn’t. They make Khias that will outrun it.

[MackSteelPrivateEye]

Originally Posted by IMadeYouReadThis

Let's not forget less weight and a higher RPM range. Telling you man the six in the 6th gen Camaro all around handling acceleration sound awesome car.

If I ever bought another one I wouldn't even consider the V8 or the four the V6 is just too damn good when paired with a manual transmission

Then...I too shalt trade in my V8 455HP/455LB Ft Tq 6 speed..and I shalt get the V6!

[cellsafemode]

the nonsense that always tries to downplay the V6 is hilarious just because the v8 keeps a lead.

Cylinders dont dictate sports cars or not. There are supercars that have 6 cylinders.

when you're beating or running with what everyone considers sports cars and you're 2 door coupe .... you're a sports car.

there will always be faster sports cars and slower sports cars. The v8 may be higher up ...but it's hardly mutually exclusive with the V6 being in the same class at a lower range.

[Wyzz Kydd]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

the nonsense that always tries to downplay the V6 is hilarious just because the v8 keeps a lead.

Cylinders dont dictate sports cars or not. There are supercars that have 6 cylinders.

when you're beating or running with what everyone considers sports cars and you're 2 door coupe .... you're a sports car.

there will always be faster sports cars and slower sports cars. The v8 may be higher up ...but it's hardly mutually exclusive with the V6 being in the same class at a lower range.

It’s not about the number of cylinders. What the V6 does with 6 NA cylinders is amazing. It’s about acceleration and top speed, neither of which is sports car level in my opinion. Handling sounds good, it looks good, it sounds ok (but not good). But bottom line what does it offer that the V8 doesn’t? It’s less expensive, that’s it. Name one other area where it’s arguably a better sports car.

[Need4Camaro]

Originally Posted by Wyzz Kydd

It’s not about the number of cylinders. What the V6 does with 6 NA cylinders is amazing. It’s about acceleration and top speed, neither of which is sports car level in my opinion. Handling sounds good, it looks good, it sounds ok (but not good). But bottom line what does it offer that the V8 doesn’t? It’s less expensive, that’s it. Name one other area where it’s arguably a better sports car.

What do you consider sports cars in terms of acceleration and top speed? Because I hate to tell you, the V6 is definitely capable of keeping up and demolishing most of that was considered sports cars between the 90's and 2000's. Even today, It is a formiddable foe against the earlier Mustang GT's that came out around 05 and even the current Charger / Challenger.

Saying it's not a Sports car is equally saying that the heavens praised 98 thru 02 F-Bodies were not "Sports Cars" ...you would get laughed at for saying that to people who owned them...and on paper they are very similar performers... so I don't think it would be accurate to say its not a sports car.

As for what it offers that the V8 doesn't:
It's less expensive
It's much more fuel efficient and doesn't need Premium to operate
It is lighter, making it more nimble. My 1LT V6 handled alot better than my SS does.

[cellsafemode]

top speed and acceleration are less a factor for what makes a sports car a sports car than handling and body style does.

But aside from the above ... The V6 is 1 second slower at accelerating to 0-60 and 1 second slower in the quarter mile. But even standing on it's own and not comparing to the V8, the numbers the V6 put down easily places it in the performance range of practically any other proclaimed sports car in the price range.

It's like some people are stuck living in the mid 90's when it comes to what they think engines and cars are capable of.

If you think being one second slower puts you in a different class then there's no point in even discussing the topic with you. Your internal categorization of cars is disassociated with reality.
While all cars are inching up in performance, driver skill does not advance with time. You dont move the goalposts of what defines a sports just because the average car performance is now falling under it's definition. It just becomes more and more defined by other characteristics like handling and looks that allow it to differentiate itself. Otherwise eventually you're just abusing the term to refer to a trim ...completely disconnected from what the term was supposed to classify.

edit: contrary to what some people would like to think, there is a ceiling to performance...where only the most controlled conditions and skilled drivers can possibly make use of without killing themselves. The engine types are converging on this and every year they inch closer and closer together as they climb to this point. Moving goalpost definitions are obviously failing as they begin having to define ridiculous conditions to keep a differentiation between engines ...becoming ever more disconnected from the reality of the performance from them. it becomes a desperate struggle to continue to keep drivetrains that are overkill relevant. You start getting stupid things like the exorcist camaro that can't even hope to put down it's power ... eventually everything could be capable of that kind of acceleration. Then what?

[Wyzz Kydd]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

What do you consider sports cars in terms of acceleration and top speed? Because I hate to tell you, the V6 is definitely capable of keeping up and demolishing most of that was considered sports cars between the 90's and 2000's. Even today, It is a formiddable foe against the earlier Mustang GT's that came out around 05 and even the current Charger / Challenger.

Saying it's not a Sports car is equally saying that the heavens praised 98 thru 02 F-Bodies were not "Sports Cars" ...you would get laughed at for saying that to people who owned them...and on paper they are very similar performers... so I don't think it would be accurate to say its not a sports car.

As for what it offers that the V8 doesn't:
It's less expensive
It's much more fuel efficient and doesn't need Premium to operate
It is lighter, making it more nimble. My 1LT V6 handled alot better than my SS does.

The price differential is irrelevant to me and has nothing to do with being a sports car.
The same with fuel efficiency. On that topic I recently went on a 300+ mile road trip averaging about 90 mph and getting 21 mpg, can the V6 do that? I doubt it. Even if it could that has zero to do with being a sports car.
It’s more nimble. Really? Name the track where your more nimble 1LT finishes ahead of my SS. There is none. At best it’s 300 pounds lighter but has 120 less horsepower and almost half the torque.

They’re impressive sporty cars, a marvel of modern engineering, but claiming they’re so good the SS shouldn’t be considered is utter nonsense. I can buy a 4 door Khia Stinger that will outrun it

To be fair my first car, a 1969 GTO might have trouble beating it and in 1969 the GTO was a sports car, just as the F bodies were great in their time but have been left behind. BTW their owners might laugh at my statement, but they would be doing it while watching me pull away from them.