[IneedAZ]

Came across this article that mentions a possible HP increase for the Hellcat for the 2019 model year. I have a 2017 ZL1 i ordered Jan 2017 and i Love the car, but it will suck if Hellcat gets a boost in HP and Chevy doesn't respond. We are already lower in HP and the gap might get larger :(

Here is the article:
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...py-photos.html

[ST1LE]

LOL, Hellcat is a relatively ancient 1 trick pony. More to cars than HP numbers.

I agree GM should respond with HP bumps when they do refreshes, but just because they can and not because the ZL1 becomes less great due to what another manufacturer does you know? I would rather have a ZL1 over a Hellcat even if they gave that thing 1000 HP.

I have never envied a Hellcat owner, but would LOVE to have a ZL1.

[shaffe]

I agree I think that GM should increase power with refreshes, that is one thing that bugs me about them. Yes the Camaro is all around the better car but to me, it's once a model hits the lot for the most part that's it they are onto the next one.

[Fraxum]

Here is what I do not understand.

Hellcat - 4450 pounds 707 HP = 6.294 lb/hp (C&D internet weight)

A10 ZL1 - 3915 pounds 650 HP = 6.023 lb/hp (my Z actual weight 1/4 tank)

Why isn't the ZL1 already faster?

A. More ZL1 drive train loss?
B. The builtin ZL1 bog?
C. The bad kitty is underrated?

[bobby35ny]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

Here is what I do not understand.

Hellcat - 4450 pounds 707 HP = 6.294 lb/hp (C&D internet weight)

A10 ZL1 - 3915 pounds 650 HP = 6.023 lb/hp (my Z actual weight 1/4 tank)

Why isn't the ZL1 already faster?

A. More ZL1 drive train loss?
B. The builtin ZL1 bog?
C. The bad kitty is underrated?

C

[ninetres]

I’ve seen tons of races where they are dead even, or whichever driver gets the hit stays ahead. I haven’t seen a good race where both are bone stock and a HC pulls away. The p/w numbers seem accurate to me. Almost identical.

[Fraxum]

Originally Posted by bobby35ny

C

I did some quick internet reading on this topic, so you know it's true.
The HP number may be accurate @ 6,000 RPM but there is more power further up. So yea. C.

But for the HC to be even power to weight it needs almost 740 HP which about jives with what the somewhat general consensus of around 750.

But even there the ZL1 and HC are alsmost dead even. Yet HCs are noticeably faster.

So yes some of C. On stock tires HCs and ZL1s are dead even on 60' times. So #2 doesn't seem relevent.

Maybe the HC auto is better than the A10 for good 1/4 times so maybe #1, but instead of drive train loss, maybe too much shifting loss.

[bobby35ny]

My boy has a HC 6M, I know the car well. Besides Mass and movement and all that stuff,
I kill him from the dig, 40mph he has the edge on me. I'm sure the A10 will have the edge on him.
That said...
The HC don't have the heavy handed nannies like we do. If you look at some dyno runs, its pretty clear its pushing 725 not 707.
-bobby

[newmoon]

The Hellcat needs tires. Trying to harness that kind of power and torque with 275 series all season tires is nearly impossible. Hell I have 285s on my Boss and I can't hook up. The Cat desperately needs a sticky 305 series tire more than a HP increase. Figure out a way to fit 305 rears without having to purchase the Wide-Body option.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

Here is what I do not understand.

Hellcat - 4450 pounds 707 HP = 6.294 lb/hp (C&D internet weight)

A10 ZL1 - 3915 pounds 650 HP = 6.023 lb/hp (my Z actual weight 1/4 tank)

Why isn't the ZL1 already faster?

A. More ZL1 drive train loss?
B. The builtin ZL1 bog?
C. The bad kitty is underrated?

The Hellcat is more underrated than any other car I've ever seen. While it is typical to see some ZL1s in the 550-580 RWHP range, most Hellcats with the M6 trans are dynoing at upper 600s to the wheels. And the A8 Hellcats are dynoing in the mid 600s. That is bone stock. Plus a pulley and tune puts them at approx 750 RWHP on 93 octane. So it's a bit of a mismatch. Gotta remember they have a 2.4 twin screw blower to the ZL1's 1.7 roots style blower. And the Hellcat has a very healthy cam vs the ZL1's restrictive cam. All of that plays a part. The extra power of the HC is enough to offset the extra weight and then some. I'd put my money on a Hellcat beating a ZL1 in a road race.

Originally Posted by bobby35ny

My boy has a HC 6M, I know the car well. Besides Mass and movement and all that stuff,
I kill him from the dig, 40mph he has the edge on me. I'm sure the A10 will have the edge on him.
That said...
The HC don't have the heavy handed nannies like we do. If you look at some dyno runs, its pretty clear its pushing 725 not 707.
-bobby

If he is on the stock P-Zero tires then you should have no problem beating him from a dig. If he throws a good set of DRs on or even just a better street tire then I'd give him the advantage. At my track the Hellcats guys are all in the 10.8-11.1 sec range with nothing but a tire and air filter removal.

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Figure out a way to fit 305 rears without having to purchase the Wide-Body option.

There are limitations that are inherent to the LX/LC platform which prevent this. IIRC the widest tire that can fit without going over the limits (IE sticking too far out from the wheel wells) is 295.

[BlaqWhole]

Oh and I forgot to add that the newer Hellcats will have the option for 725 HP. But I think that is the wide body style. The normal ones will have the same 707. From what I know.

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

There are limitations that are inherent to the LX/LC platform which prevent this. IIRC the widest tire that can fit without going over the limits (IE sticking too far out from the wheel wells) is 295.

Depending on the tire tho. Since not all tires are the same width even at the same size. I think a few have gotten a 305 on the rear. But 295 does seem to be the norm. Even swapping to a 295 in just a better street tire improves the performance. Those P-Zeros are garbage for real.

[Zeke.Malvo]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

There are limitations that are inherent to the LX/LC platform which prevent this. IIRC the widest tire that can fit without going over the limits (IE sticking too far out from the wheel wells) is 295.

295's aren't even enough for 500 hp, that's crazy.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[newmoon]

There are plenty of photos out there with owners running 305s. Dodge might have to change the rim design a bit but 305s will fit. Atleast make it an option.