Turbo Mustang vs Turbo Camaro

[Royal Tiger]

Motor Trend did both turbo 4's in a very detailed comparison article:

http://www.motortrend.com/news/compa...tang-ecoboost/

[Taco Time]

Good read. I'm very interested to see what the future holds for these type of motors.

[ytown87]

Was a very well written article. Not once did they mess up and call these muscle cars.

Let me be the first to get bashed for it.....these cars are both sad to the history and legacy of what both the Camaro and Mustang are. Want a 4 banger? Go buy GTI, Mazda 3, or some other car with a history made for that platform. Could care less if the 0-60 and 1/4 is the same as a muscle car from the 90's.

[jcampos]

Originally Posted by ytown87

Was a very well written article. Not once did they mess up and call these muscle cars.

Let me be the first to get bashed for it.....these cars are both sad to the history and legacy of what both the Camaro and Mustang are. Want a 4 banger? Go buy GTI, Mazda 3, or some other car with a history made for that platform. Could care less if the 0-60 and 1/4 is the same as a muscle car from the 90's.

+1

I agree with everything you said. I know this is the product of modernization but seriously IMO, GM just shit on the legacy of Camaro's (Muscle car/sport car) characteristics...

Its all good though, my next car definitely will not be a GM haha. Got my eye on that Scatpack or a new Ram 3500

[Angrybird 12]

There is a sister artical showing how just adding a set of summer only performance tires wake up the Camaro they used in this test.
http://www.motortrend.com/news/1500-...ree-adds-much/

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by ytown87

Was a very well written article. Not once did they mess up and call these muscle cars.

Let me be the first to get bashed for it.....these cars are both sad to the history and legacy of what both the Camaro and Mustang are. Want a 4 banger? Go buy GTI, Mazda 3, or some other car with a history made for that platform. Could care less if the 0-60 and 1/4 is the same as a muscle car from the 90's.

Guess you forgot the 4 banger Mustangs of the 70's and 80's along with the 4 banger Camaros of the 80's. As far as I know they are also part of the Mustang and Camaro's history.

[ytown87]

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

Guess you forgot the 4 banger Mustangs of the 70's and 80's along with the 4 banger Camaros of the 80's. As far as I know they are also part of the Mustang and Camaro's history.

And so has the rest of the world for a reason. Granted those were created out of desperation bc of the issues with epa and regulation changes on cars that pretty much destroyed big beefy v8's. Shoot and a miss there. These modern 4 bangers really have no place in the line up to continue making these cars image remain the good ol American Muscle. There is no energy crisis and over the top crazy epa regulations the require them. It really waters down both cars. Whats next??? Putting the turbo v6 from the ATS-V into a Vette??

[2010reddevil]

Hey, maybe they might look into doing that as a mid engine design like is rumored to be for the C8. Will definitely be blasphemy for sure. Can't even begin to imagination hearing a V6 sound from a Corvette, no matter how fast it is. Why I like seeing videos of built up C6Z's kicking GTR ass. Sure the GTR makes a good noise for a TTV6, but as the Vette pulls away and hearing that badass V8 sound, I just smile to myself and think, yeah..........that's what's up.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by ytown87

And so has the rest of the world for a reason. Granted those were created out of desperation bc of the issues with epa and regulation changes on cars that pretty much destroyed big beefy v8's. Shoot and a miss there. These modern 4 bangers really have no place in the line up to continue making these cars image remain the good ol American Muscle. There is no energy crisis and over the top crazy epa regulations the require them. It really waters down both cars. Whats next??? Putting the turbo v6 from the ATS-V into a Vette??

Have you been paying any attention to the EPA regulations? Fuel mileage regulations are going to be shooting upwards rapidly, companies are being forced to take measures now so they don't get caught again with their pants down and end up paying giant fines to the government.
If GM and Ford do not offer these the Camaro's V8 future could also be in jeopardy. Nobody wants that now do you?
People are so worried about watering down the lineup that they have their heads up their asses and do not realize that without this option the future of performance cars all together is in danger.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press...iency-standard
Like I said to the V6 Haters, you dont like them then don't buy them. It does not hurt you one bit.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by 2010reddevil

Hey, maybe they might look into doing that as a mid engine design like is rumored to be for the C8. Will definitely be blasphemy for sure. Can't even begin to imagination hearing a V6 sound from a Corvette, no matter how fast it is. Why I like seeing videos of built up C6Z's kicking GTR ass. Sure the GTR makes a good noise for a TTV6, but as the Vette pulls away and hearing that badass V8 sound, I just smile to myself and think, yeah..........that's what's up.

Isn't the new Ford GT also a Twin Turbo V6?

[hazy]

Originally Posted by ytown87

And so has the rest of the world for a reason. Granted those were created out of desperation bc of the issues with epa and regulation changes on cars that pretty much destroyed big beefy v8's. Shoot and a miss there.

In case you've been missing out on the news, the epa is coming down hard on car mfgs in an effort to reduce emissions. As the years go by, the regulations are becoming slowly more burdensome. (as you seem to acknowledge below...)

Originally Posted by ytown87

These modern 4 bangers really have no place in the line up to continue making these cars image remain the good ol American Muscle.

You are not looking at it through the right lens. GM doesn't produce cars soley for enthusiasts. GM produces cars in order turn a profit and maintain/increase their shareholder value. When you can appeal to the masses, you sell more cars, thus increasing profits, therefore making the company look better from an investment perspective. THAT'S what GM does. Enthusiasts are there, and they try to appease them, but said enthusiasts are a TINY TINY percentage of car owners. Most folks don't give a shit if their car has 500 horsepower, or 150. They want a car that gets them to work, store, and back home safely. Some want it to look good. Most others want it to be efficient.

Originally Posted by ytown87

There is no energy crisis and over the top crazy epa regulations the require them. It really waters down both cars.

Whether or not there is an energy crisis is most definitely a debate for another time/place, however the reality of the situation is that the regulations, along with consumer demand, are driving this. Another big reason is cost. The large majority of folks really don't want to drop 40k+ for a car. Yes, enthusiasts absolutely will, and they may even spend 2x or 3x that to get what they want. But for your average joe, who likes the looks but doesn't care if it goes 0-60 in 4 seconds or 6, a turbo 4cyl is a perfect buy. And it's not nearly as costly as "that fuel guzzling v8." Again...appeal to the masses, increase profits, increase shareholder value. THAT is the mission of ANY company.

Originally Posted by ytown87

Whats next??? Putting the turbo v6 from the ATS-V into a Vette??

Wouldn't surprise me in the least. You've seen the new Ford GT, right? TT v6 cranking out an estimated 600+hp. There's also the GTR. Don't even need to say another word about that monster. Alternatively, it wouldn't surprise me to see a hybrid-ish setup along the lines of the Porsche 918, La Ferrari, etc, where they supplement a traditional motor with electric motor(s)...in the quest for lower emissions and more power. Will it happen? Perhaps not, but it probably isn't out of the question.


Again, at the end of the day, this company exists to make a profit. They also are required to work within the bounds of the existing regulations, whether we, as enthusiasts, like it or not. It's just a fact. And if you don't like the 4cyl, don't go buy it!! Nobody is going to put a gun to your head and make you. I'm not going to do it...but I will tell you one thing - if I was not in the position to purchase a v8, but still wanted something fun to drive, I'd probably buy a 4cyl. They're cheaper, look almost as good, and probably get pretty good fuel mileage relative to their larger displacement kinfolk.

Big picture, dude. They're not making these cars for "us" or "you" they're making them for everyone. And if you look at what "everyone" drives, then you'll rapidly realize that a 4cyl probably has more mass appeal than a v8...especially when the folks out looking for cars are more than likely hesitant to drop that kind of coin in an economy such as we are seeing now.

[lkurek]

Originally Posted by Angrybird 12

Have you been paying any attention to the EPA regulations? Fuel mileage regulations are going to be shooting upwards rapidly, companies are being forced to take measures now so they don't get caught again with their pants down and end up paying giant fines to the government.
If GM and Ford do not offer these the Camaro's V8 future could also be in jeopardy. Nobody wants that now do you?
People are so worried about watering down the lineup that they have their heads up their asses and do not realize that without this option the future of performance cars all together is in danger.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press...iency-standard
Like I said to the V6 Haters, you dont like them then don't buy them. It does not hurt you one bit.

There is no hope in arguing with someone who has a V6 or a 4cyl version of the Camaro/Mustang.....they get very defensive and argumentative....kind of like little man syndrome. LOL

Seriously, if you are buying a muscle car.....it MUST have 8cyl, RWD, and at least have a manual trans available. Period. Anything less is NOT a muscle car. They are still very nice cars, for posing (and yes, even if you mod them, you are basically still posing), commuting, or having a "sporty" car for the teenage daughter/son.

Again.....I know this will stir up a can of worms, and the V6 guys are going to go apesh*t, but the truth is the truth. Its kind of like calling a pickup truck a pickup truck.....but not having a bed on it. You can call it what you want, but its not a pickup truck. A muscle car without a V8 is not a muscle car. Period

[lkurek]

Originally Posted by hazy

You are not looking at it through the right lens. GM doesn't produce cars soley for enthusiasts. GM produces cars in order turn a profit and maintain/increase their shareholder value. When you can appeal to the masses, you sell more cars, thus increasing profits, therefore making the company look better from an investment perspective. THAT'S what GM does. Enthusiasts are there, and they try to appease them, but said enthusiasts are a TINY TINY percentage of car owners. Most folks don't give a shit if their car has 500 horsepower, or 150. They want a car that gets them to work, store, and back home safely. Some want it to look good. Most others want it to be efficient.

Which is why they make Cruze's, Impalas, and Malibus. Or, if you are so inclined, Spark's and Volt/Bolts.

The Camaro is NOT meant as a commuter car, per se. Look on their website even....its under performance cars. As is the Vette and the SS.

Again, I know the 4cyl and 6cyl cars are nice....and they have a place in the continuum of vehicles...but a muscle/performace car they are not.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by lkurek

There is no hope in arguing with someone who has a V6 or a 4cyl version of the Camaro/Mustang.....they get very defensive and argumentative....kind of like little man syndrome. LOL

Seriously, if you are buying a muscle car.....it MUST have 8cyl, RWD, and at least have a manual trans available. Period. Anything less is NOT a muscle car. They are still very nice cars, for posing (and yes, even if you mod them, you are basically still posing), commuting, or having a "sporty" car for the teenage daughter/son.

Again.....I know this will stir up a can of worms, and the V6 guys are going to go apesh*t, but the truth is the truth. Its kind of like calling a pickup truck a pickup truck.....but not having a bed on it. You can call it what you want, but its not a pickup truck. A muscle car without a V8 is not a muscle car. Period

Sounds like you are the one going apeshit here. You just cannot handle the reality of the situation we have today.