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Old 11-02-2018, 09:16 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by DaveC113 View Post
And lots of other stuff, because (insert auto mfg'er conspiracy theory here).
Oh yeah.
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Old 11-02-2018, 09:20 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by DaveC113 View Post
And lots of other stuff, because (insert auto mfg'er conspiracy theory here).
Specs aren't vague statements... *cough* lugging *cough* haha
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Old 11-02-2018, 09:24 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Dave-ROR View Post
Specs aren't vague statements... *cough* lugging *cough* haha
Lugging may be hard to precisely define, but like porn, you know it when you see it.
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Old 11-02-2018, 09:25 AM   #32
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Lugging may be hard to precisely define, but like porn, you know it when you see it.
mmm porn.
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Old 11-02-2018, 09:31 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Dave-ROR View Post
Specs aren't vague statements... *cough* lugging *cough* haha


This comes back to education and being able to discern the difference between scientific specifications and having an ignorance being pandered to.

The discussion a while back on the lug torque spec was that it would take at least a 10.9 grade M14 [dry] to handle the specified torque, though there are some tables that show even a 10.9 can't handle 140 LbFt, so it makes sense to spec a 12.9.
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Old 11-02-2018, 09:42 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Ryephile View Post


This comes back to education and being able to discern the difference between scientific specifications and having an ignorance being pandered to.

The discussion a while back on the lug torque spec was that it would take at least a 10.9 grade M14 [dry] to handle the specified torque, though there are some tables that show even a 10.9 can't handle 140 LbFt, so it makes sense to spec a 12.9.
Lol, dude... you made absolutely no reasonable argument at all. You failed to show that there was logic in the engine's software tune that is meant to prevent lugging. You're the one spouting conspiracy theory about "pandering" now.

Either go back to that thread and prove your point or drop it and see if Al O will give his response. You are ridiculous.


Not only that, but you're WRONG AGAIN about torque spec! Wow, who woulda thunk?

Can't you even do a 10 second google search? If so, in just a few seconds you'd see a M14 grade 10.9 at 75% takes 148 ft-lbs.
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Old 11-02-2018, 09:51 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by AZ_1LE View Post
140 ft lbs is insane for a 5 lug car, especially considering the size of the wheel studs and nuts.

100 ft lbs for me, every time. The first time I ever took the wheels off of the car when it had 15 miles on the odometer, I cracked them loose with my torque wrench which was set to 90. They DEFINITELY were not at 140.
If my understanding is correct, the purpose of torquing a bolt or lug nut is to induce a certain amount of stretch in the fastener which is what keeps it tight. The huge studs on the 1LE will require a much higher torque than say the studs on a Camry to achieve the correct amount of stretch.
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Old 11-02-2018, 10:12 AM   #36
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Pffft - I only put them on hand-tight, then turn 1/6 turn with a wrench. Then weld the two together. Never had one come loose yet!
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Old 11-02-2018, 10:15 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Dmaxcc6spd View Post
If my understanding is correct, the purpose of torquing a bolt or lug nut is to induce a certain amount of stretch in the fastener which is what keeps it tight. The huge studs on the 1LE will require a much higher torque than say the studs on a Camry to achieve the correct amount of stretch.
Yup, and that's also why folks often measure rod bolt stretch instead of torque as it's a more accurate and more direct measure of the strain on the bolt. Torque is an indirect measure of strain and it's accuracy depends on having the same amount of friction in the threads, bolt head, etc. as the test case had.
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Old 11-02-2018, 10:23 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by DaveC113 View Post
Lol, dude... you made absolutely no reasonable argument at all. You failed to show that there was logic in the engine's software tune that is meant to prevent lugging. You're the one spouting conspiracy theory about "pandering" now.

Either go back to that thread and prove your point or drop it and see if Al O will give his response. You are ridiculous.


Not only that, but you're WRONG AGAIN about torque spec! Wow, who woulda thunk?

Can't you even do a 10 second google search? If so, in just a few seconds you'd see a M14 grade 10.9 at 75% takes 148 ft-lbs.
Neat story. You're not entitled to be spoon fed out of your ignorance. Now you see one Google result and you're "right".
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Old 11-02-2018, 10:32 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Ryephile View Post
Neat story. You're not entitled to be spoon fed out of your ignorance. Now you see one Google result and you're "right".
That's because you have no idea wtf you are talking about. The irony of you calling me ignorant is amazing. You have no idea who you are talking to online, keep that in mind. Thanks for that...


Apparently you found "a chart" that shows a 14mm bolt spec'ed with less than 140 ft lbs max. Maybe one day you'll learn that the bolt material and lubrication make a difference, and that lug studs DON'T USE LUBRICATION.

I know you said before you're in "the industry" but lube tech doesn't make you an authority on anything. In fact, the way you talk to people and claim they are ignorant all the time is right in line with someone who thinks they are an expert but really doesn't have enough life experience to realize they know a lot less than they think. Don't worry, one day you'll grow up and become a man, maybe...
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Old 11-02-2018, 10:34 AM   #40
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Damn, you win. Feel better?
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Old 11-02-2018, 10:41 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Ryephile View Post
The discussion a while back on the lug torque spec was that it would take at least a 10.9 grade M14 [dry] to handle the specified torque, though there are some tables that show even a 10.9 can't handle 140 LbFt, so it makes sense to spec a 12.9.
This is bad information. You don't size fasteners by the "torque they can handle." You size them based on yield strength, material properties, and the preload required.
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Old 11-02-2018, 08:57 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Glen e View Post
Don't overthink this… I wouldn't buy a new torque wrench. Just check it often at the max 125 and you'll be fine. If you're going to the track it's a different matter but for daily driving 125 is more than enough.

They do work loose.


I DD, Track and AutoX my car.


Half the time I TQ them before AutoX, they are less than 140ft/lbs.
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