[Number 3]

Keep in mind, when and if you see the first spy photos, that starts the clock. 12 to 18 months. Unless Elon believes selling near prototype cars to the public is ok. Tesla, under normal timing, won't have a car in 2017 unless it's very late in the year, or they skip steps because the Bolt beat them to the punch.

[c4racer]

Originally Posted by DenverTaco07

Just picked up a Volt last Saturday...pretty impressed by it, but it isn't a replacement for wanting a Camaro (ZL1 for me).

I love not using a single drop of gas getting to and from work, and the instant torque (246 lb ft) is pretty fun. And it's actually a nice looking car, much better than any other electric outside of tesla.

Btw, all that said, after $11,900 in tax credits an LT is a $20,000 car, you won't drive a better car for the money, IMO.

I thought it was $7500 in tax credit. Or is that the fed portion the state kicks in too? For $20K I agree that's a pretty good deal - you will pay at least that for a new gas saver compact that's nice. Ours is a mazda3 that gets almost 40 on the highway. It's the wife's daily. Sometimes we take it on trips but now that I have the SS I have a feeling it won't get used as much for road trips from here on!

[Genesis7]

Originally Posted by saxman

Looks are, of course, subjective. I think out of the sedans offered today, the S and eventual 3 are very attractive looking. Are they still just sedans? Yes, but they aren't the most boring designs I've ever seen. I personally like the current generation Mustang over the camaro looks wise. Performance wise, the Camaro is the no brainer though. I have always bought cars more so based on the performance value and less so on looks. I've had a Neon SRT-4 and Caliber SRT4 and they aren't lookers in most people's eyes but they sure as hell offered a lot of bang for the buck performance wise.

After my Caliber, I am finally realizing it might be better to have something a little more civilized but still fun for my daily driver. I must be getting older. ☺️ I admit I am. I think the newer muscle cars would offer plenty of creature comforts and drive very nicely as a daily. But then I think about the instant silent torque offered by electric and that sounds very appealing too. Elon has already said ludicrous mode will be offered in the 3 (not cheap of course), but even a low-mid 4 second to 60 would be plenty respectible in a daily driver. I'm thinking the 3 could be pretty tossable too given it should be a lot lighter than the S and smaller in size. The batteries in the floor really help the center of gravity. Throw on some sticky tires and maybe upgrade the suspension and it could be a rocket of a car that turns pretty good too. The only thing missing is the beautiful noise (guess we could pipe some fake engine noise in like Ford and BMW have done ☺️) and rowing the gears manually. My daily now is an auto and I really do miss the shifting even driving in a city.

This is all, of course, speculative at this point. I think the model 3 has the potential to be a huge turning point from gas to electric. The biggest obstacle right now though is probably low oil prices. And as already mentioned, as more people drive electric that will probably keep gas cheaper which of course works against the transition. It will be a long time before we see ICE's go extinct.

Yea sure.. looks are very subjective...

[ChevyRules]

IMHO despite me not liking the grille-less design, I still prefer its looks over the Bolt.

[DenverTaco07]

Originally Posted by c4racer

I thought it was $7500 in tax credit. Or is that the fed portion the state kicks in too? For $20K I agree that's a pretty good deal - you will pay at least that for a new gas saver compact that's nice. Ours is a mazda3 that gets almost 40 on the highway. It's the wife's daily. Sometimes we take it on trips but now that I have the SS I have a feeling it won't get used as much for road trips from here on!

$7500 federal, $4400 state of Colorado.

IMO, Volt is the ultimate commuter with the redundancy and piece of mind of the gas powered generator (and propolsion in certain circumstances) a hybrid-hybrid. Really satisfied so far.

[GroundhogSS]

Yeah, I really like the Volt. Don't want to have the battery anxiety. One of my kids had one and he really liked it. Nothing like a good old gas engine to keep you going when the battery is out. I have 8.6 kilowatts of solar on my roof to offset the gas my SS uses.

[doc7000]

I like Tesla, however I was hoping a new and more interesting design language with the model 3. Kind of a let down IMHO, though we are still 2-3 years out before a production model is even out for it while the Chevy Bolt will beat it to market by a good amount of time.

[DisturbedSS]

Shew...I was wondering where the Tesla forum was hiding....

just to play along....
So a Chevy volt starts at 34k and a Toyota corolla or Nissan sentra start at 18K. Both about the same in quality and size.

So youre paying 16K upfront for "gasoline savings"...sounds prudent to me. I guess better than the 12-16 year break even buying solar panels outright for your house. Go green by spending extra buckets of green!

And yes people are sheep...they all go running to buy electric cars when gas prices are inflated or a fabricated crisis occurs and dump gas guzzlers en masse. Now all we see are cars coming out with more HP, year after year with worse mileage numbers (think trucks) because gas prices are low. Get the sheep shearing clippers out.

[bpang1234]

I am all for being an early-adopter but I feel like Tesla's bubble could burst in the next year or so.

1. The stock has fallen to $200 as of Friday...that is a full $50 down from just a few months ago.

2. They purchased solar city which was also doing poorly...so now you have a merger of 2 companies that have had massive drops in their stock prices. Not good.

3. Tesla makes most of it's money from the energy credits it sells to other automakers...those automakers are catching up and could conceivably buy less and less credits as their technologies catch up.

4. Gas is cheap again...never a good selling point to pay the huge premium for an electric car.

This is all my layman's / super-amateur perspective but when I looked at what they want people to do (put up $1,000 with no real tracking on when the Model 3 will arrive) I decided against it. The Model S is an awesome car but even that car took a lot longer to get in the hands of buyers between unveiling and actual deliveries. Furthermore, it's not like you are getting some kind of huge bonus for being a pre-order customer. So it is better to wait and see if the car actually becomes reality.

In the meantime, I am happily enjoying my ICE cars while they are still affordable.

[Skerj]

Originally Posted by DisturbedSS

Shew...I was wondering where the Tesla forum was hiding....

just to play along....
So a Chevy volt starts at 34k and a Toyota corolla or Nissan sentra start at 18K. Both about the same in quality and size.

So youre paying 16K upfront for "gasoline savings"...sounds prudent to me. I guess better than the 12-16 year break even buying solar panels outright for your house. Go green by spending extra buckets of green!

And yes people are sheep...they all go running to buy electric cars when gas prices are inflated or a fabricated crisis occurs and dump gas guzzlers en masse. Now all we see are cars coming out with more HP, year after year with worse mileage numbers (think trucks) because gas prices are low. Get the sheep shearing clippers out.

Where are you seeing worse fuel numbers? Mine have all gotten better; 1994 F150 5.0 11 and 15, 2005 Dodge Dakota 4.7 14 and 19, 2011 Ram 1500 5.7 14 and 19. Current trucks are putting out 15ish and 21ish for 4x4 models, not counting diesel.

02 Camaro was rated basically equal to the 5th gen, but had a smaller engine(albeit was lighter...)and the 6th gen is obviously better yet.

Will I buy a Tesla? Heck no. I want a 6th Gen SS! And while I see lots of people hopping on board the electric express, I think it will be many years before it's preferable to, we'll, at least me. And if the government would stay out of it, it'll be even longer.

[saxman]

I love the sheep comments. I have made my fair share of sheeple or Isheep jokes. I will never own an apple product and laugh at the zombie lines new releases create, but at the same time I realize there products may be a good fit for some. I have even recommended their products to people I think would benefit from them over say Android, but I digress.

Like I said I'm still strongly considering an ICE which would most likely be a Camaro or Mustang (waiting to see the 18 refresh). The financial argument for an electric car over a comparable ICE is a little comical on a forum where people are paying a premium for a V8 performance car. The performance car costs more upfront as well as has higher maintenance costs than a non performance car (more expensive tires, insurance, etc). While electric cars typically cost more upfront but have much cheaper maintenance costs down the road (no oil changes, less brake wear, many fewer components to break down or replace, etc).

I'm not advocating for one over the other. Rather, I'm playing devil's advocate and trying to expose the pros and cons of each. There are not only short term pros and cons people look at but also long term pros and cons. The "sheeple" tend to focus on just the short term and ignore any long term pros or cons of their purchases. There are many people who do look more at the long term and factor that into their purchases more than a short term "need".

I think we can all agree a car purchase is a terrible financial move 99% of the time. It's definitely not an investment as you watch the value drop every year as the car slowly falls apart every year. People are going to buy what they like to drive or what fits their needs best regardless of the cost. If cost is a person's most important need then yes, they'll buy a cheap car. A cheap car might come at a costs too (sooner maintenance, more maintenance, etc.) My point? Buy what you want. Let others enjoy their personal transportation whatever it might be. The key word is personal. It's kind of like clothes. We might make fun of a person's taste of clothes, but it really has no ill effect on us. Let people enjoy there personal styles and you enjoy yours.

[freddyD]

Hell no!!

[Glen e]

I love elan, but his car division is burning thru cash so fast it's not clear when we'll see the model 3....if I had the infrastructure for charging at my condo, I'd probably add one to my car stable. All my doc friends love their Tesla's.....

[thickstunalex]

I'm sure if you hopped on the Mustang forum someone there would call you a sheeple for wanting a Camaro. The more I hear that word, the more the herd of people calling everyone sheeple look more like sheep to me.

But then again, that's the internet for yah. I'm an astronautical engineer, but have been called a dumbass for not having the same opinion as someone else. I've been told I'm a sheep for taking the position that we landed on the moon. But I guess an Internet know-it-all will know more about the moon landing than an astronautical engineer...