1LE vs 1SS with Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2's

NCSD · 08-11-2016, 07:30 PM

Tires can shave seconds off lap times.

If a 1 LE is roughly about 3 seconds a lap faster than a base 1SS because it has better tires and suspension. How much faster would a 1SS be with just better tires like the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2's or the new 1LE tires?

How much of that 3 seconds is strictly tires?

Any educated or uneducated guesses out there?

My uneducated guess is that you could shave 2 seconds a lap off with Sport cups or the new 1LE tires. It won't be as fast as the 1 LE, but I think it could get within 1 or 2 seconds of 1LE laptimes

Anyone else???

The Idiocracy · 08-11-2016, 08:12 PM

Well, its not just tires and suspension...its trackwidth as well. I guess its possible that the trackwidth is solely a function of the 285s up front. If thats the case and assuming that all other factors are the same, then I think matching the footprint (making the suspension the only difference) would bring the time within a second of each other. Slightly lower CG and lightly less body roll will make entry and exit just a little bit faster.

raptor5244 · 08-12-2016, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCSD

Tires can shave seconds off lap times.

If a 1 LE is roughly about 3 seconds a lap faster than a base 1SS because it has better tires and suspension. How much faster would a 1SS be with just better tires like the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2's or the new 1LE tires?

How much of that 3 seconds is strictly tires?

Any educated or uneducated guesses out there?

My uneducated guess is that you could shave 2 seconds a lap off with Sport cups or the new 1LE tires. It won't be as fast as the 1 LE, but I think it could get within 1 or 2 seconds of 1LE laptimes

Anyone else???

Tires would help since those Goodyear Suepercar tires stick like glue once they are warmed up. Also add MRC on the 1SS into the equation, then you could measure what the suspension and specific MRC tuning alone from the 1LE does for lap times. I think what you will find it the 1LE will inspire more confidence when at the limit, which results in a driver that will push the car through the corners even faster.

SS 1LE · 08-12-2016, 06:12 AM

SS 1LE also has an e-diff, different calibration to the MRC, and other suspension upgrades...plus, wider tire sizes.

Since there has yet to be any official tests, we have no idea of the times really. While a tire upgrade would surely help the SS, there would still be a sizable gap between the two.

NCSD · 08-12-2016, 11:03 AM

Thanks for the feedback, I'm not an expert, but I have done some motorcycle racing and offroad racing, with a little bit of autocross and trackdays mixed in over the years, Tires can make a big difference on most cars, but the 1SS comes with pretty good tires to start with, so I'm not sure how it works with 6th Gen Camaros

So my question should have been, How much faster per lap would a 1SS be with MRC and good trackable tires like the gt350 or 1LE has? And how close to a 1LE do you think it would get to a 1LE with just tires and MRC?

Just curious what people think, I'm sure we'll find out later.

HumanWiki · 08-12-2016, 11:28 AM

Factory limit is the brake fluid, then the pads and then the tires. From what I've found.

On a cooler day with RBF600 installed and my track vents in, I was then starting to out brake the tires even with OEM pads and was able to over turn them in to corners. So then stickier tires would have been helpful.

When it was warmer out, I was pad fading before brake fluid and tires started to complain. But, that was my issue for not putting in the track vents for that 1 session. Though, the fade was corrected by reducing brake usage a couple turns.

Even on a 1SS, you'd get more time, from synth fluid and pads over just tires first.

NCSD · 08-12-2016, 03:10 PM

Ok then since pads and fluid are pretty cheap, so much time could you pick up with pads fluid and better tires???

DetCam · 08-12-2016, 03:39 PM

Question for HumanWiki: You said: "When it was warmer out, I was pad fading before brake fluid and tires started to complain."

How do you tell if it is the pads or the fluid that give out? (what are the signs?).

HumanWiki · 08-12-2016, 03:43 PM

Pedal was firm, but reduced braking and feeling like less was there to stop.

Usually boiling or super hot fluid will be a soft or to the floor pedal.

evanescent03 · 08-17-2016, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HumanWiki

Factory limit is the brake fluid, then the pads and then the tires. From what I've found.

On a cooler day with RBF600 installed and my track vents in, I was then starting to out brake the tires even with OEM pads and was able to over turn them in to corners. So then stickier tires would have been helpful.

When it was warmer out, I was pad fading before brake fluid and tires started to complain. But, that was my issue for not putting in the track vents for that 1 session. Though, the fade was corrected by reducing brake usage a couple turns.

Even on a 1SS, you'd get more time, from synth fluid and pads over just tires first.

I can't wait to try this car with some good track tires which is definitely the limiting factor right now with carbotech pads and dot 4 fluid. I'm wondering if I want to just trade out for a 1LE though for the uniqueness on top of the wheels, tires, brakes and seats

evanescent03 · 08-17-2016, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HumanWiki

Factory limit is the brake fluid, then the pads and then the tires. From what I've found.

On a cooler day with RBF600 installed and my track vents in, I was then starting to out brake the tires even with OEM pads and was able to over turn them in to corners. So then stickier tires would have been helpful.

When it was warmer out, I was pad fading before brake fluid and tires started to complain. But, that was my issue for not putting in the track vents for that 1 session. Though, the fade was corrected by reducing brake usage a couple turns.

Even on a 1SS, you'd get more time, from synth fluid and pads over just tires first.

I can't wait to try this car with some good track tires which is definitely the limiting factor right now with carbotech pads and dot 4 fluid. I'm wondering if I want to just trade out for a 1LE though for the uniqueness on top of the wheels, tires, brakes and seats

KenH. · 08-17-2016, 03:27 PM

Due to computer control I suspect swapping the diff is not possible, but the rest of the suspension components should be interchangeable with the current SS cars ... so if you want that edge for your track days it should be easily within reach without buying a whole new car.

HumanWiki · 08-17-2016, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evanescent03

I can't wait to try this car with some good track tires which is definitely the limiting factor right now with carbotech pads and dot 4 fluid.

I look forward to seeing your posts from that

Quote:

Originally Posted by evanescent03

I'm wondering if I want to just trade out for a 1LE though for the uniqueness on top of the wheels, tires, brakes and seats

Well, that works too.

irmb · 09-24-2016, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HumanWiki

I look forward to seeing your posts from that

Well, that works too.

My car is at sears point right now getting work done.

BMR lowering springs - camber and tow. square stance wheels and tires (285 front and rear on 19's - micheline PSS's.)

Looking to take it back out October 8th and will report back.

08-11-2016, 07:30 PM	#1
NCSD Drives: Nightfall, 2SS, A8, MRC, NPP,RE-71R Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: United States Posts: 250	1LE vs 1SS with Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2's Tires can shave seconds off lap times. If a 1 LE is roughly about 3 seconds a lap faster than a base 1SS because it has better tires and suspension. How much faster would a 1SS be with just better tires like the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2's or the new 1LE tires? How much of that 3 seconds is strictly tires? Any educated or uneducated guesses out there? My uneducated guess is that you could shave 2 seconds a lap off with Sport cups or the new 1LE tires. It won't be as fast as the 1 LE, but I think it could get within 1 or 2 seconds of 1LE laptimes Anyone else???

08-11-2016, 08:12 PM	#2
The Idiocracy Drives: 2016 Black SS Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Michigan Posts: 234	Well, its not just tires and suspension...its trackwidth as well. I guess its possible that the trackwidth is solely a function of the 285s up front. If thats the case and assuming that all other factors are the same, then I think matching the footprint (making the suspension the only difference) would bring the time within a second of each other. Slightly lower CG and lightly less body roll will make entry and exit just a little bit faster.

08-12-2016, 06:12 AM	#4
SS 1LE マスタング = 遅い Drives: 2017 Chevrolet Camaro SS 1LE Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Florida Posts: 7,061	SS 1LE also has an e-diff, different calibration to the MRC, and other suspension upgrades...plus, wider tire sizes. Since there has yet to be any official tests, we have no idea of the times really. While a tire upgrade would surely help the SS, there would still be a sizable gap between the two.

08-12-2016, 11:03 AM	#5
NCSD Drives: Nightfall, 2SS, A8, MRC, NPP,RE-71R Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: United States Posts: 250	Thanks for the feedback, I'm not an expert, but I have done some motorcycle racing and offroad racing, with a little bit of autocross and trackdays mixed in over the years, Tires can make a big difference on most cars, but the 1SS comes with pretty good tires to start with, so I'm not sure how it works with 6th Gen Camaros So my question should have been, How much faster per lap would a 1SS be with MRC and good trackable tires like the gt350 or 1LE has? And how close to a 1LE do you think it would get to a 1LE with just tires and MRC? Just curious what people think, I'm sure we'll find out later.

08-12-2016, 11:28 AM	#6
HumanWiki Drives: Car Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Place Posts: 3,361	Factory limit is the brake fluid, then the pads and then the tires. From what I've found. On a cooler day with RBF600 installed and my track vents in, I was then starting to out brake the tires even with OEM pads and was able to over turn them in to corners. So then stickier tires would have been helpful. When it was warmer out, I was pad fading before brake fluid and tires started to complain. But, that was my issue for not putting in the track vents for that 1 session. Though, the fade was corrected by reducing brake usage a couple turns. Even on a 1SS, you'd get more time, from synth fluid and pads over just tires first.

08-12-2016, 03:10 PM	#7
NCSD Drives: Nightfall, 2SS, A8, MRC, NPP,RE-71R Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: United States Posts: 250	Ok then since pads and fluid are pretty cheap, so much time could you pick up with pads fluid and better tires???

08-12-2016, 03:39 PM	#8
DetCam Drives: 2016 1SS (12/10/2016) Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Troy MI Posts: 169	Question for HumanWiki: You said: "When it was warmer out, I was pad fading before brake fluid and tires started to complain." How do you tell if it is the pads or the fluid that give out? (what are the signs?).

08-12-2016, 03:43 PM	#9
HumanWiki Drives: Car Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Place Posts: 3,361	Pedal was firm, but reduced braking and feeling like less was there to stop. Usually boiling or super hot fluid will be a soft or to the floor pedal.

08-17-2016, 03:27 PM	#12
KenH. Drives: 2016 2SS M6 NPP MRC Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Graham, NC Posts: 190	Due to computer control I suspect swapping the diff is not possible, but the rest of the suspension components should be interchangeable with the current SS cars ... so if you want that edge for your track days it should be easily within reach without buying a whole new car.

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