[s346k]

last time i checked, walmart did not take billions of dollars from uncle sam to avoid closing its doors.

[chevybill]

Meanwhile, more and more auto plants are moving into the South and Southeast.
Non union states.

[Red Chief]

Originally Posted by redcoats1976

and then we wonder why new cars and everything else costs so much...go figure.

UPS drivers are a joke if they think delivering little packages is hard work but at least online shopping has created some semblance of demand for what they do.

Assembly line workers though? No wonder they shipped all the factory jobs to China and Mexico.

[MR's 2SS]

Originally Posted by s346k

last time i checked, walmart did not take billions of dollars from uncle sam to avoid closing its doors.

Not directly. But when they dont pay anyone enough to survive and dont offer medical benefits... the workers need to depend on government programs to survive.
Kind of a similar thing from the perspective of a taxpayer.
But... Ford didnt take the money.
And dont get me started on bailing out banks.... when I start getting profit sharing from the banks... then Ill be ok with my tax dollars bailing them out when they do something stupid.
But.... Ive spent the last 30 years fighting against the tide to buy American.
Union.. non union... I dont want to hear about any of that... My neighbors jobs...
I ran a lowbed for years. I had to go onto a job site to remove machinery of a non union company. They had the big rat out.. they damaged the guys equipment...
I walked up to the line and asked what I needed to do to cross the line to get a machine out without getting my stuff messed with... They said your good pulling it out... When I asked what the strike was about... They said they were striking because the non union company was stealing THEIR jobs...
I asked the guy where he was from... about 50 miles away... I said but the guy who owns all these machines... he lives right here. Hows he stealing your jobs?
I have mixed feelings about the whole thing. Ive been an owner operator, and Ive been a Teamster. Ive done ok either way.
Once I was challenged by the big union BA on a construction job very close to NY. He was right. But my company was "connected".... but I want no problem... I asked him how can I get a book?.. well truth is at that time theres no Fing way.
Also, operating the lowbed in most Teamster operations puts you in the mechanics local. I would have to take a cut in pay. Similar bennies... Some better rules... some worse.
But if they would put me in the Operating Engineers 825 I would be able to make real money... Never gunna happen.
I never begrudge anyone either way...
I always buy American... and often leave empty handed if I have no choice.
I also dont care if USPS or UPS delivers my stuff. It usually comes in good shape reasonably on time.
I hate Fedex. They droped a document envelope at my door... 12 inches away from being under my roof.. In the pouring rain... Because he was to much of a JO to throw it onto the dry concrete.
I know my UPS driver. I know my mail man... I never see the same fedex driver twice....
Really bothers me buying ammo mail order when it comes fedex because now some unknown underpaid short timer knows what Im buying.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by 2k2ss

Do the cars that come from mexico cost less? Nope! Not the Unions fault
You do realize management makes more than the Union employees and get at least 4 performance bonuses a year!

Originally Posted by Number 3

I never got 4 performance bonuses a year. Just one.

And you know the represented employees get pretty decent profit sharing as well……once per year.

But also not clear why anyone cares their car comes from Mexico. If Walmart loving Americans had their way EVERYTHING would come from China. Pick on GM? Lol. Walmarts sales are wayyyyyyyy higher than GM and they aren’t paying $30 per hour with full benefits AND pensions WITH healthcare after retirement. So just suggesting anyone complaining about GM building cars in Mexico better not be shopping at Walmart.

That one caught my attention too. I was thinking I must’ve missed out on at least 3 bonuses a year. And yes there were years where union employees got COLA and bonuses when salaried employees got nothing. Rare, but it happened. The reverse never happened during the time I was at GM.

[SomeGeoffGuy]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

That one caught my attention too. I was thinking I must’ve missed out on at least 3 bonuses a year. And yes there were years where union employees got COLA and bonuses when salaried employees got nothing. Rare, but it happened. The reverse never happened during the time I was at GM.

My wife has worked at Ford salaried for 8 years and her bonuses have never exceeded UAW. Usually about half.

The workers that were almost striking were NOT full pay UAW. The GM assembly plants make about $32 an hour, the striek workers - GM subsystems LLC - make around $17. They might be part of that deal where GM could pay part of it's workforce at a lower rate.

-Geoff

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by SomeGeoffGuy

My wife has worked at Ford salaried for 8 years and her bonuses have never exceeded UAW. Usually about half.

The workers that were almost striking were NOT full pay UAW. The GM assembly plants make about $32 an hour, the striek workers - GM subsystems LLC - make around $17. They might be part of that deal where GM could pay part of it's workforce at a lower rate.

-Geoff

The way GM brings on hourly workers is first they come in through a hiring agency and they are probationary employees. After sometime they can transition to “full time” but they are at a lower rate. Probably the $17 you mention, but I don’t know for sure. Been away from it for about 5 years now.

Eventually they can move up to the higher rate level. I don’t know how long that takes. I do recall that the length of time to transition to the full right was a negotiation issue in the last contract talks in ‘19. I think that Ford and Stellantis operate pretty much the same way, since they tend to pattern the Union agreements after each other.

[Aaron07]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

The way GM brings on hourly workers is first they come in through a hiring agency and they are probationary employees. After sometime they can transition to “full time” but they are at a lower rate. Probably the $17 you mention, but I don’t know for sure. Been away from it for about 5 years now.

Eventually they can move up to the higher rate level. I don’t know how long that takes. I do recall that the length of time to transition to the full right was a negotiation issue in the last contract talks in ‘19. I think that Ford and Stellantis operate pretty much the same way, since they tend to pattern the Union agreements after each other.

I'm 95% sure Geoff is correct about the $17 is top pay for full time sub systems employees.

At the Assembly plants, new employees are not brought in through temp agencies. They are hired by GM and work for GM. They could be classified as a full time or part time temp. They start out around $16 and receive reduced healthcare benefits, retirement, ect. They cannot miss any time, have no vacation, can be put on any shift or schedule at managements discretion.

Once a part time temp is converted to a full time temp, then they now have a path to becoming a full time permanent seniority employee with benefits.

Among other things they have to work x amount of hours for two years straight with out a layoff. Once you are a full time permanent seniority employee it takes years (i think around 9) to reach the top pay of ~$32. This was the main reason for the 2019 strike and was negotiated at that time. Before that there was nothing, no language for a path to becoming full time. source- Electrician @ Fort Wayne Assembly

[taylorforschool@gmail.com]

Originally Posted by Red Chief

UPS drivers are a joke if they think delivering little packages is hard work but at least online shopping has created some semblance of demand for what they do.

Assembly line workers though? No wonder they shipped all the factory jobs to China and Mexico.

Are you just trying to start something? LOL don’t speak on something you have no knowledge of.

[MR's 2SS]

Originally Posted by 2k2ss

Do the cars that come from mexico cost less? Nope! Not the Unions fault
You do realize management makes more than the Union employees and get at least 4 performance bonuses a year!

I dont know anything about the union contracts. I do believe many, if not most administrative corporate "leaders" are getting paid far above their actual value. But theres a lot of union guys who have seniority and arent worth ten cents. Without the protection of the union they wouldnt have any job.
Not a dig at the union. But you know the guy Im sure.
But the Made in Mexico part... Thats why Im driving an F-250 rather than a 2500 HD... That and the aluminum body after my 12 year old GMC had full rust through of the rear fenders.
And thats why I would buy a Camaro or Corvette.... but not a single other GM product.
Buy American. Support your neighbors jobs. Avoid products from countries that are openly hostile to America...
Maybe Im a fool... but it seems logical to me.

[LeonardS]

Originally Posted by MR's 2SS

I dont know anything about the union contracts. I do believe many, if not most administrative corporate "leaders" are getting paid far above their actual value. But theres a lot of union guys who have seniority and arent worth ten cents. Without the protection of the union they wouldnt have any job.
Not a dig at the union. But you know the guy Im sure.
But the Made in Mexico part... Thats why Im driving an F-250 rather than a 2500 HD... That and the aluminum body after my 12 year old GMC had full rust through of the rear fenders.
And thats why I would buy a Camaro or Corvette.... but not a single other GM product.
Buy American. Support your neighbors jobs. Avoid products from countries that are openly hostile to America...
Maybe Im a fool... but it seems logical to me.

You can buy a GMC 2500 HD or 3500 HD. They are only built in Flint, MI.

[taylorforschool@gmail.com]

Originally Posted by MR's 2SS

I dont know anything about the union contracts. I do believe many, if not most administrative corporate "leaders" are getting paid far above their actual value. But theres a lot of union guys who have seniority and arent worth ten cents. Without the protection of the union they wouldnt have any job.
Not a dig at the union. But you know the guy Im sure.
But the Made in Mexico part... Thats why Im driving an F-250 rather than a 2500 HD... That and the aluminum body after my 12 year old GMC had full rust through of the rear fenders.
And thats why I would buy a Camaro or Corvette.... but not a single other GM product.
Buy American. Support your neighbors jobs. Avoid products from countries that are openly hostile to America...
Maybe Im a fool... but it seems logical to me.

This is the most genuine summarization of the union/management dynamic I have seen thus far.

[Steve65]

Not sure where you got your info ln FedEx drivers. I'm a operations manager for them. Most of my del drivers are making $30 and great benefits. Our ground drivers are contracted out. So their pay is diff. We own them but their employees but it's separate than express. We all have service problems in any industry. Union or no union. It's the individuals work ethic

[MatthewAMEL]

Originally Posted by chevybill

Meanwhile, more and more auto plants are moving into the South and Southeast.
Non union states.

What? Unions are allowed in all states.


I live in Florida and we have Unions all over the place.