[rlarsen462]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Ditto the bold part. Plus, the $66k will be offset by the incentives allowed under the IRA bill that just passed, and the savings in gas over the life cycle of the vehicle.

Buying an EV to save on gas is literally the dumbest thing imaginable. I got an email today from my electric company (who has a portal to buy electric cars on their website...imagine Chevron doing that with ICE cars lol) saying I can charge for $1/gal equivalent to fuel.

Okay so let's pretend we don't have the dumbest administration on the planet and US gasoline is still $2.50/gal in my area for the sake of argument (it was actually <$2 at one point only a couple years ago).

Let's also say I have a vehicle which gets a modest 20MPG.

So I am saving, using their math, $1.50 every 20 miles I drive.

Extrapolating (I'll let you confirm my math if it's that important to you), this means $7500 in savings (assuming NO increase in electricity rates or decrease in fuel cost, or a more fuel efficient vehicle, etc. etc.) for every 100,000 miles driven.

Let's make it even stupider and say I get 10MPG and gasoline is $5/gal (and still assuming no increase in electric utility rates)...then I save $40,000 over 100K miles...which will barely cover a base model, or very small/uninspiring EV at best. The 10MPG example by the way is my TRX...

Using the "you'll save so much on fuel!" argument is ridiculous, deceptive, and literally only begins to hold up if fleet fuel efficiency is atrocious (it's not, and continually improves), and governments continue hostility to gasoline production artificially inflating prices.

[Wyzz Kydd]

Originally Posted by rlarsen462

Buying an EV to save on gas is literally the dumbest thing imaginable. I got an email today from my electric company (who has a portal to buy electric cars on their website...imagine Chevron doing that with ICE cars lol) saying I can charge for $1/gal equivalent to fuel.

Okay so let's pretend we don't have the dumbest administration on the planet and US gasoline is still $2.50/gal in my area for the sake of argument (it was actually <$2 at one point only a couple years ago).

Let's also say I have a vehicle which gets a modest 20MPG.

So I am saving, using their math, $1.50 every 20 miles I drive.

Extrapolating (I'll let you confirm my math if it's that important to you), this means $7500 in savings (assuming NO increase in electricity rates or decrease in fuel cost, or a more fuel efficient vehicle, etc. etc.) for every 100,000 miles driven.

Let's make it even stupider and say I get 10MPG and gasoline is $5/gal (and still assuming no increase in electric utility rates)...then I save $40,000 over 100K miles...which will barely cover a base model, or very small/uninspiring EV at best. The 10MPG example by the way is my TRX...

Using the "you'll save so much on fuel!" argument is ridiculous, deceptive, and literally only begins to hold up if fleet fuel efficiency is atrocious (it's not, and continually improves), and governments continue hostility to gasoline production artificially inflating prices.

Stop! Please stop! You're making way too much sense and that's not something the green group appreciates.

[paradigm]

Can't wait for the rare earth metals to become extremely expensive so that the cost of batteries shoots through the roof.

Can't wait electricity rates to skyrocket, making basic living extremely unaffordable.

[rlarsen462]

Originally Posted by Wyzz Kydd

Stop! Please stop! You're making way too much sense and that's not something the green group appreciates.

I focused only on the fuel side of his comment...don't get me started on the government's "incentivization" plan to steal more of our money in order to "give it back" to the rightthink crowd.

[Realist]

An EV can make sense for many. I was driving 16000 for work a few years back in 3 different gas hogs. Average MPG in ZL1 was 17, 2500HD was 12, EXT was 13 so average them out to 14MPG. 16000\14=1142 gallons. 1142x$4.50 per gallon=$5140. That’s one year, 4 years later that’s a $20000 plus gas cost. Obviously a more economical gas vehicle would change numbers a lot, cost of EV makes a big difference too. To many variables and it’s different for everyone. I just don’t think we need to go further in debt to push folks toward EV’s at this point. There is already a demand for any vehicles because they aren’t on dealer lots. If they only make EV’s, that’s what people will buy. Just wish the gov wouldn’t spend so much picking winners and losers. Billions in tax credits going to folks who don’t need the assistance, building an EV infrastructure, battery development and manufacturing all the while growing the debt and increasing transportation expenses for the lower middle class.

[USAFS197]

Originally Posted by paradigm

Can't wait for the rare earth metals to become extremely expensive so that the cost of batteries shoots through the roof.

Can't wait electricity rates to skyrocket, making basic living extremely unaffordable.

I can't wait, either. I've invested in a lot of the processes and materials involved in making electric vehicles. Nonetheless, I still feel like this is a smart choice for some people but, not everyone.

[rlarsen462]

Originally Posted by USAFS197

I can't wait, either. I've invested in a lot of the processes and materials involved in making electric vehicles. Nonetheless, I still feel like this is a smart choice for some people but, not everyone.

And there it is, the same reason these clowns in politics are all pushing it, because they are heavily invested in it.

I'll reiterate a previous post. If any politician or "leader" tells you they are doing something for your benefit, they are lying, categorically. They wouldn't cross the street to piss on you if you were on fire. They are only in the positions they are in to personally benefit themselves. Anything they say or do is a means to an end. Apply to "green narrative" as you see fit.

[USAFS197]

Originally Posted by rlarsen462

And there it is, the same reason these clowns in politics are all pushing it, because they are heavily invested in it.

I'll reiterate a previous post. If any politician or "leader" tells you they are doing something for your benefit, they are lying, categorically. They wouldn't cross the street to piss on you if you were on fire. They are only in the positions they are in to personally benefit themselves. Anything they say or do is a means to an end. Apply to "green narrative" as you see fit.

I mean, that's an awfully generalized way of looking at it but, you're free to feel that way. I do think that this push is painfully premature but on the same token, I understand the need to invest into the technology. We cannot continue to rely upon carbon-based fuels indefinitely. That is just not an option. While forcing this change ahead of the infrastructure needed to support it is likely going to end up making things more painful than it should, the change should still happen but, in a more natural progression. However, since it's being forced, I don't think anyone can blame me for investing in a future that is just over the horizon.

Instead, I could help guide this transition using my money and business rather than stomp my feet and yell about how change is bad and anything I don't readily agree with is stupid. Look, we can all see the pollicization of what is happening but, it's happening whether people think it is or not. This isn't even a distinctly American "issue."

We are certainly a minority within this community. When you really stop and think about it, if you think there's something wrong with everyone who is not like you or thinks like you, then some introspection is at hand. Drive your car, enjoy every single minute with it that you can and don't give it up. No one is forcing you to buy a new car, let alone one that is electric. Now, if legislation comes through and tries to force ICE vehicles off the roads entirely, then I will be right there next to you fighting for our right to keep them.

[Cmax]

Originally Posted by 3LT

You're rare around here then lol. Most V8 heads are just audiophiles who won't admin it.

I admit it…. I love the sound of v8 exhaust….I literally turn down my music when I listen to exhaust pops decelerating downhill…. Freaking love it.
I have said before, some sound engineer, will create a quality exhaust sound system for EVs…. It connects to the torque sensor to use historic V8 music…
I want my Silverado EV to sound like a Pontiac 455SD with headers and glass packs…. ��
But that won’t be for 10+ years…..because right now the country is run by people that think 10,000 new windmills can replace all the power plants that are closing. In the last 6-7 years they have closed down 3 power plants in the greater Cincinnati area…. Look it up. Right now on the windiest/sunniest days, solar and wind generate less than 5% of the grid on the best of days. Not to mention the windmill blades are deteriorating.
Sounds to me that we are literally counting on Electricity, to come from ‘wind and a prayer’.

[Camaro fanboy]

once 8 years old a 30k battery pack is needed.
no thanks

[Zr8000]

Originally Posted by jamala00

These manufacturers are going to be regretting their choices when they build all these EV's an next to nobody buys them.

They can’t wait to phase out ice cars. Then they can build one system for the entire line up and put it in different model cars. Then sell you features for what you want it to do as add ons.

[rlarsen462]

Originally Posted by Cmax

But that won’t be for 10+ years…..because right now the country is run by people that think 10,000 new windmills can replace all the power plants that are closing. In the last 6-7 years they have closed down 3 power plants in the greater Cincinnati area…. Look it up. Right now on the windiest/sunniest days, solar and wind generate less than 5% of the grid on the best of days. Not to mention the windmill blades are deteriorating.
Sounds to me that we are literally counting on Electricity, to come from ‘wind and a prayer’.

The only thing a government hates more than its "subjects" is subjects that disagree with them and are not reliant on them. Look at everything happening in the world today through that lens and you will start to understand our trajectory. It's not conspiracy when they are now bold enough to say most of it out loud to boot.

And I'll freely admit I'm an engine audiophile too. My wife will literally tell salesman (no matter the price point...I recently test drove the new McLaren Altura which is a V6 hybrid) "he won't be interested if he doesn't immediately like how it sounds".

FYI the Altura is just okay sound wise (performance was fantastic)...only so much lipstick you can put on the sound output from a V6 even with a flat plane crank.

[cellsafemode]

Originally Posted by rlarsen462

The only thing a government hates more than its "subjects" is subjects that disagree with them and are not reliant on them. Look at everything happening in the world today through that lens and you will start to understand our trajectory. It's not conspiracy when they are now bold enough to say most of it out loud to boot.

And I'll freely admit I'm an engine audiophile too. My wife will literally tell salesman (no matter the price point...I recently test drove the new McLaren Altura which is a V6 hybrid) "he won't be interested if he doesn't immediately like how it sounds".

FYI the Altura is just okay sound wise (performance was fantastic)...only so much lipstick you can put on the sound output from a V6 even with a flat plane crank.

there's not 1 government ruling decisions being made in the world. Yet the whole world is moving towards electric. Why? Because it has massive benefits over ICE for the corporations that make them and it aligns with other priorities that both consumers and the public has.

But the collapse of enthusiast sporty cars for mid and low income people has been something that was going to happen even if you eliminate EV entirely. It's literally irrelevant to this topic.

EV didn't kill our cars. The wage gap did and changing priorities the market that buys these cars did. Our shift in what cars are succeeding and what ones are failing and how corporations are looking to maximize profits is entirely a capitalist process between the buyers and sellers. It's a pattern that was started over 20 years ago.

Be mad at big government and environmentalists all you want, it wouldn't have changed anything regarding the demise of pony/muscle cars. The middle class is poorer or smaller than they have been in many decades and their priorities have changed and have been changing for a long time now. Fun cars aren't in the budget, and corporations are under constant pressure by the rich to keep making them money by growing profits indefinitely. What other outcome would you expect from these two pressures?

edit: You gotta look at it thru a lens of the origin for our niche of vehicles. They had room in the market because most of the alternative was slow, and far from what you could consider fun to drive. Fast forward to today's cars ...and they're all way way faster and better performing than almost any option from the 90's and earlier. Even SUV's and all but the base-est models of econo-box offerings. It doesn't take much at all to have illegal levels of displays of performance on most roads/highways. The niche our car existed in has been eroded by the advancement of cars in general (almost exclusively ICE based advances in performance). There's no need for our cars with their compromises in practicality for the vast majority of buyers who used to buy them because everything else sucked that bad.

Our kind of cars had a deadline for that reason long before any kind of EV legislation.

[bigd1276]

Originally Posted by rlarsen462

And there it is, the same reason these clowns in politics are all pushing it, because they are heavily invested in it.

I'll reiterate a previous post. If any politician or "leader" tells you they are doing something for your benefit, they are lying, categorically. They wouldn't cross the street to piss on you if you were on fire. They are only in the positions they are in to personally benefit themselves. Anything they say or do is a means to an end. Apply to "green narrative" as you see fit.

My new favorite post.!