[Cgocifer]

Originally Posted by samurai

You have to understand that some cars are not made for high sales numbers, but holding up the image of your company. Only a handful people will buy a Corvette ZR1 or ZL1 1LE. But they get you emotionally attached to the Company through it. And even when you can't afford the ZR1 or even a base Camaro or Corvette, or you need more space for practical reasons, you may end up buying a Chevrolet Sedan or SUV because of the Camaro or Corvette.

True, good point. Chevy has the corvette for that though. Not sure the modern Camaro image/rep took off like they hoped. Still (inaccurately) considered a red neck, mullet machine.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by samurai

You have to understand that some cars are not made for high sales numbers, but holding up the image of your company. Only a handful people will buy a Corvette ZR1 or ZL1 1LE. But they get you emotionally attached to the Company through it. And even when you can't afford the ZR1 or even a base Camaro or Corvette, or you need more space for practical reasons, you may end up buying a Chevrolet Sedan or SUV because of the Camaro or Corvette.

Very fair point but as I have said in these threads before. The 6th Gen car is superior in every single way to the 5th gen car, yet is not selling as well as the previous. If I was GM I would be a little concerned, yes it's not going to be a huge volume car, but to have it be less than the previous gen would worry me a little.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Cgocifer

How much you want to bet that thing is built on an alpha chassis? A sporty performance SUV like the Porsche Macan? Ooh, LT1 option?

Death of Camaro right there. Car makers are moving to more SUVs than cars these days because that's what sells. As others have said, no matter how awesome the car, more people are choosing Sport SUVs over a sports cars. :-(

It isn't.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Very fair point but as I have said in these threads before. The 6th Gen car is superior in every single way to the 5th gen car, yet is not selling as well as the previous. If I was GM I would be a little concerned, yes it's not going to be a huge volume car, but to have it be less than the previous gen would worry me a little.

It's all about pricing. We had these discussions often when I was still at GM. When GM was coming out of bankruptcy, one thing was made VERY clear. Profit is more important than market share. Period.

Since it is on Alpha and has a lot more features than 5th Gen and a lot of those features are pushed via trim levels (looking at you, 2SS), the average transaction price for 6th Gen Camaro is significantly higher than the average transaction price for 5th Gen....and for Mustang and for Challenger. GM has also been focused on adjusting production rates to maintain the right prices instead of keeping the factories cranking and tossing money on the hood. That's not just for Camaro, that's across the board. There still are incentives, in most cases to remain within the competitive range when competitors offer incentives. But the days of offering huge rebates to clear inventory off lots are gone.

So, basically, GM would like to outsell Mustang and Challenger (who wouldn't?) but is okay with not outselling them (market share) if the volume that is sold can be sold at high transfer prices and with better profit per vehicle.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by samurai

You have to understand that some cars are not made for high sales numbers, but holding up the image of your company. Only a handful people will buy a Corvette ZR1 or ZL1 1LE. But they get you emotionally attached to the Company through it. And even when you can't afford the ZR1 or even a base Camaro or Corvette, or you need more space for practical reasons, you may end up buying a Chevrolet Sedan or SUV because of the Camaro or Corvette.

Yup. That is the definition of a "Halo Car". It casts a halo over the rest of the portfolio. You come in to look at the Corvette Z06 and drive out with a Camaro 1LT or Cruze Premier. You come in to look at the Mustang GT350 and drive out in a Focus RS or Mustang EcoBoost.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Cgocifer

True, good point. Chevy has the corvette for that though. Not sure the modern Camaro image/rep took off like they hoped. Still (inaccurately) considered a red neck, mullet machine.

When I ordered my personalized plate, I considered getting "ULLET" as the plate. Combined with the "block M" from the University of Michigan logo on my plate it would have spelled MULLET. Decided that it was too much of an inside joke and that most people in my circle of friends wouldn't get it.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

It's all about pricing. We had these discussions often when I was still at GM. When GM was coming out of bankruptcy, one thing was made VERY clear. Profit is more important than market share. Period.

Since it is on Alpha and has a lot more features than 5th Gen and a lot of those features are pushed via trim levels (looking at you, 2SS), the average transaction price for 6th Gen Camaro is significantly higher than the average transaction price for 5th Gen....and for Mustang and for Challenger. GM has also been focused on adjusting production rates to maintain the right prices instead of keeping the factories cranking and tossing money on the hood. That's not just for Camaro, that's across the board. There still are incentives, in most cases to remain within the competitive range when competitors offer incentives. But the days of offering huge rebates to clear inventory off lots are gone.

So, basically, GM would like to outsell Mustang and Challenger (who wouldn't?) but is okay with not outselling them (market share) if the volume that is sold can be sold at high transfer prices and with better profit per vehicle.

True and fair points.

I mentioned it in another thread, ATP is a great stat to throw around but with out knowing how much profit is being made it's more fluff than actual data to me IMO.

Example, one of the products I sell at my company I know I am selling at a much higher price than my direct competitor. So in essence it has a much higher ATP.

However in this instance, I know my profit margin on this item is razor thin. I know my competitor is making more profit per item than I am.


As far as big incentives go I would say the annual 20% off MSRP disagrees with you there lol

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by shaffe

True and fair points.

I mentioned it in another thread, ATP is a great stat to throw around but with out knowing how much profit is being made it's more fluff than actual data to me IMO.

Example, one of the products I sell at my company I know I am selling at a much higher price than my direct competitor. So in essence it has a much higher ATP.

However in this instance, I know my profit margin on this item is razor thin. I know my competitor is making more profit per item than I am.


As far as big incentives go I would say the annual 20% off MSRP disagrees with you there lol

The general public would not be privy to actual profit numbers, but within the company, there are datasources that can be purchased that track ATP for ALL vehicles. We constantly monitored those. Camaro consistently had higher ATP than Mustang, Challenger, 370Z, etc and the profit margin hit the required targets.

The annual 20% off MSRP sales were typically near the end of the model year, designed to clear the lot for the next model year. Usually followed by 0% financing on past model year stock when the new model year product hits the lot. Neither of those things happened for the transition from '17 to '18.

When I bought my '17, I could have gotten 20% off of a '16 near the end of the 2016 MY. I waited. I could have bought a '16 SS Convertible that was on the lot with 0% financing, but the dealer couldn't do it with the '17 Fifty Vert that I came in to buy. Since I specifically wanted the H50 package, it had to be a '17. To make the deal they reduced the price on my car to the point where adding up all my discounts plus their price reduction, financed at 2% at a credit union I'd never heard of, made my payment exactly what it would have been if I had financed at 0% with my discounts but without their price reduction.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

The general public would not be privy to actual profit numbers, but within the company, there are datasources that can be purchased that track ATP for ALL vehicles. We constantly monitored those. Camaro consistently had higher ATP than Mustang, Challenger, 370Z, etc and the profit margin hit the required targets.

The annual 20% off MSRP sales were typically near the end of the model year, designed to clear the lot for the next model year. Usually followed by 0% financing on past model year stock when the new model year product hits the lot. Neither of those things happened for the transition from '17 to '18.

When I bought my '17, I could have gotten 20% off of a '16 near the end of the 2016 MY. I waited. I could have bought a '16 SS Convertible that was on the lot with 0% financing, but the dealer couldn't do it with the '17 Fifty Vert that I came in to buy. Since I specifically wanted the H50 package, it had to be a '17. To make the deal they reduced the price on my car to the point where adding up all my discounts plus their price reduction, financed at 2% at a credit union I'd never heard of, made my payment exactly what it would have been if I had financed at 0% with my discounts but without their price reduction.

See you being in the company and "in the know" then yeah I will take it a bit more serious but when other people jsut float it around you at least saw where I was coming from right?

And yeah 20% didn't go Camaro, I thought you mentioned across the board at GM which is why I brought it up.

[Gen6_1Le]

Originally Posted by Cgocifer

How much you want to bet that thing is built on an alpha chassis? A sporty performance SUV like the Porsche Macan? Ooh, LT1 option?

Death of Camaro right there. Car makers are moving to more SUVs than cars these days because that's what sells. As others have said, no matter how awesome the car, more people are choosing Sport SUVs over a sports cars. :-(

I wouldn't go that far , from what i read it will be on the C1 platform like the new cadillac XT4 .

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Gen6_1Le

I wouldn't go that far , from what i read it will be on the C1 platform like the new cadillac XT4 .

Yup.

[metros11]

Originally Posted by cooper1965

I'm with you man. I'm looking to buy in March, but I'm confident the reveal should happen sometime in march. Not sure what to do...

Wait until the reveal. If the refresh is 'meh', you can still get an '18, and probably at a decent price.

Originally Posted by red_johnny

That is interesting for your area. Not the same way for some areas. When I was looking for mine I searched 150 mile radius of my home town and only found 1 or 2 SS. If I searched near Atlanta I found 40-50. As far as the other models V6/V4 there were quite a few options near me, found about 40-50. Just depends on where you are and what the dealers ordered.

I don't know what the deal is with eastern PA, NJ and NYC tri-state areas, but it's hard to find any V8 with a 6M trans.

Originally Posted by shaffe

Very fair point but as I have said in these threads before. The 6th Gen car is superior in every single way to the 5th gen car, yet is not selling as well as the previous.

Nobody knows this unfortunately.

[Gen_Nick3.8]

Originally Posted by metros11

Wait until the reveal. If the refresh is 'meh', you can still get an '18, and probably at a decent price.

I don't know what the deal is with eastern PA, NJ and NYC tri-state areas, but it's hard to find any V8 with a 6M trans.

Nobody knows this unfortunately.

The interior on the 6th gen is good but in surveys almost everyone mention's that stupid high driver dash on top of the small windshield, the 6th gen interior is too cramped everything is small. You can barely get a wallet in the side pocket. 6th gen owners dont care because they bought one, but dont wonder why sales suck.. Its not just price. I know 3 people personally who didnt buy a 6th gen just because of the dash. 3 sales lost X by all the other people out there.

[Gen_Nick3.8]

Originally Posted by samurai

You have to understand that some cars are not made for high sales numbers, but holding up the image of your company. Only a handful people will buy a Corvette ZR1 or ZL1 1LE. But they get you emotionally attached to the Company through it. And even when you can't afford the ZR1 or even a base Camaro or Corvette, or you need more space for practical reasons, you may end up buying a Chevrolet Sedan or SUV because of the Camaro or Corvette.

uhmm yea some cars** the camaro is made to be a high volume seller not the special package's but the car as its own!! Mustang & FCA have enjoyed record numbers while chevy numbers are in the tanks. I'm waiting to see the 2019 refresh!