[LESS1]

Originally Posted by Laststandard

The one non-biased review on the DSC controller here found it actually was slower around the track. You're just not going to get close to what the factory suspension engineers can do with the MRC.

The same was said of tuning computer-controlled fuel and timing back in the 1980s yet here we are in a world where you don't have to drive to far to find a shop that can tune the vehicle of your choice to extract more HP/TQ and in some cases better efficiency and MPG. I'm not saying suspension tuning is easy because it isn't but tuned for individual use without giving consideration to a compliant, good ride...etc it is absolutely possible to surpass OEM MRC damping along with much more tunability than a set of "click to change" dampers which lacks the fidelity of changing ones and zeros.

[oldman]

GM must have picked the DSSV over MRC on the Z/28 and ZLE, I have my own opinion but don't feel like thread jacking for today.. The Motortrend article covers a lot of suspension ground. Note the GT500 base seems to do well enough on PS4S and plain dampers.

[Lafourche1]

I think that the last few years has played out as many expected. Sales for the Pony car and all cars have dropped a good bit (25%-50%). Ford is still tied to the Mustang and even if it sells each and every GT500 that it makes, it will not influence their bottom line. Much the same can be said for Camaro and Corvette. However, GM took a leap forward with the C8. Some car companies survive off of ME platform sales GM has positioned itself not to take a bite out of Ford, but to take a bite out of Ferrari, McLaren and Porsche. The Corvette is not competing with the Mustang.

Will there be a Gen7 Camaro? My crystal ball is pretty murky on that subject. What will be beyond the S550 platform for Ford? It is painfully obvious that the S550 platform is nowhere near the Alpha platform. However, sales are still stronger for the Mustang than for the Camaro (both are down).

Bottom line is that for roughly the same dollars, one can get a ZL1 that performs as well as the C8 Corvette, more or less. The same cannot be said of the Mustang.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by Lafourche1

I think that the last few years has played out as many expected. Sales for the Pony car and all cars have dropped a good bit (25%-50%). Ford is still tied to the Mustang and even if it sells each and every GT500 that it makes, it will not influence their bottom line. Much the same can be said for Camaro and Corvette. However, GM took a leap forward with the C8. Some car companies survive off of ME platform sales GM has positioned itself not to take a bite out of Ford, but to take a bite out of Ferrari, McLaren and Porsche. The Corvette is not competing with the Mustang.

Will there be a Gen7 Camaro? My crystal ball is pretty murky on that subject. What will be beyond the S550 platform for Ford? It is painfully obvious that the S550 platform is nowhere near the Alpha platform. However, sales are still stronger for the Mustang than for the Camaro (both are down).

Bottom line is that for roughly the same dollars, one can get a ZL1 that performs as well as the C8 Corvette, more or less. The same cannot be said of the Mustang.

My thinking also. No matter the C8's performance now, it has changed the direction of the Vette forever. No matter the price point, the C8 makes men's hearts beat harder and I'm sure the women think the same way when their date shows up with one.... It is truly a dream car that if one works hard enough and saves enough it is affordable. Me, personally I have little to interest in cars above say 130K. I have a strong interest in cars that I can afford and that are beautiful to the eye. I got a Challenger because to be honest, the 5th gen was just ugly as sin. I got a 4th gen because the Mustang was so ugly I would never buy one, heck I love the LS1 engine but if it were in the late 90s Mustang, I would have raced the SOHC 4.6 instead that is how ugly the Mustang was.... it still burns today....

[TheRealJA105]

I gotta quit staying away from the forum for multiple days, too many things to quote. So I'll cut most of Blaqs quotes i had in here and just say HOLY FREAKING WOW HE NEVER LEARNS ANYTHING!

Originally Posted by LESS1

I noticed you are in NJ, have you ever run NJMP? I went for the first time last year and ran Lightning with Speed District. Planning to go again this year. Speed District was great with 8 20+ Min sessions for less than $300. Let me know if you are interested.

It's been proven SO MANY TIMES that he's never even seen a road course! He thinks roll racing is a "Road Course" or "Track".

Originally Posted by vtirocz

Are you referring to this test? https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=542333
If so, they never tested the 1LE upgrade kit (for MRC cars only). The Camaro team tested exactly what I asked for in my question to them (for non-MRC suspension). That's the reason they only ran the SS 1LE wheel/tire combo along with the lowering/handling kit - that's the combo I was considering. It's not practical to test and advertise lap times every combination. Also, the DSSV kit was designed for the SuperCar3 R tires anyway and you wouldn't expect to see the benefit of that kit without them.
The "slammer spring kit" was actually their lowering kit (springs, shocks), handling kit (SS 1LE front/rear swaybars and front links). While it's a 20mm drop in ride height compared to a standard SS, compared to an SS 1LE, it's only 11mm lower in front and 5mm lower in the rear. I don't consider that slammed at all!

Very good post!

Originally Posted by oldman

GM could have set up on the SS, with off the shelf components a 1le suspension with dampers from their slammer...err.. performance... springs, 1LE wheels. The chose not to, could it be that plain dampers and the plain SS clutch diff would be so close to the 1lE that GM was worried? Don't know.

Don't agree with most of your posting on this subject, but this part I 100% agree with.

Originally Posted by bradmo9

Inconsistent??? Ever car will have a different time depending on weather and track conditions. You just posted how you've run 12.5 to a 11.9 in your ZL1. There's not enough C8's out in the wild to determine really anything right now. Besides that its a hell of value looks , performance and amenities.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Can you read? Or are you just trying your damnedest to troll here? Go back, quote and paste my post where I wrote my times, and then tell me whether or not you can read. After that tell me if you have common sense or reading comprehension. Because you obviously either can't read well, can't understand numbers, cannot comprehend things, or something is seriously wrong with you.

Originally Posted by bradmo9

Sorry it was a 13.5 not 12.5 lol.... my point is it’s not necessarily the cars that are inconsistent but the drivers. It happens, especially when your dealing with power levels of the zl1 and gt500.

Originally Posted by bradmo9

Easy big boy .... I was wrong you went from 13.5 to 11.8 my bad.

SOOOOOO glad you called him out on all this and caught him in another bold face lie that he still won't admit to. And it's easily found and quoted even. Again WOWWOWOWOWOWWOW

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Not worth a reply.

Aaannnnndddd then he does this because he will never admit he's wrong. Now you are probably on his ignore list so he can't read the truth you post when you correct him.

Originally Posted by oldman

I goes further than that, a workable DSSV damper upgrade would allow all existing 1SS and 1LT, as well as future base models to upgrade to a superior damper. It would also undercut the reason 3 plus years of people that have already ordered MRC (not a cheap option) and I don't think one can order that on a 1ss or 1lt.

I think GM knows exactly how a 1SS will perform given unlimited access to GM's parts bin.

1SS can be optioned with mag ride and I have my doubts that the "mag ride tune" is much different for the 1LE so I agree with the second part.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

They're not the most friendly tire...money-wise and for DD use. And they definitely do not last long. Not on something as heavy as the GT500 apparently. It's an expensive one lap setup where a great driver can do a great lap but only once. So for the tires alone that is a $1600+ lap.

Wait wait wait, now you're admitting the Cup2s fall off after 1 lap. How long ago did I freaking tell you that?????????????????????????????

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

That dude (the one you were replying to) is completely clueless. I omit runs with driver error when that error is obvious.

No you don't omit those runs, you are the clueless one.

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

Gt500s are consistent low to mid 11 second cars, depending on traction and how percect things are they can obviously get into the high to mid 10s. There's a lot of guys running them and putting it out there, sometimes they mess up their launch with too much rpm as well, just as you have messed up your runs before. Some of the gt500 inconsistencies can also be attributed to driver error.
Zl1s aren't super consistent either, from high 11s to to high 10s (like any high hp rwd car), but atleast the zl1 doesn't vary as much from drag strip to street surface. I don't believe the gt500 is super inconsistent but it does seem to have a wider spread than most other performance cars, even in the hands of experienced folks. I see zl1's run terrible times but its usually in the hands of rookies. Gt500s seem to have a wide varience even in experienced hands at the strip.
I know some of it is the nature of the beast with a 760hp rwd car(though to be noted, the better built zr1 doesn't suffer as bad as the gt500), but it seems the clutch durability and dct lead to some of these inconsistencies. I also heard that even on the stock tune the knock sensors are very active so it could be pulling timing and be extremely sensitive to enviromental and fueling variables. So while motortrend tried to say the gt500 didn't heat soak as much as the vette when they were fan girling over it, it obviously has its own inconsistency issues. Having said that, while they might exist, I haven't seen any 12+ second gt500s on any run.
We're mostly in agreement, gm clearly engineers superior overall products and ford routinely leaves a lot to be deaired on that front. I just dont think the gt500 is as crappy as you think it is, but I am also for the most part unimpressed lol.

He doesn't listen to truth Robby, you know better.

Originally Posted by LESS1

Here is the issue I have always had with the sportscar magazines. With an occasional exception, the folks performing these "performance tests" are not fantastic drivers, to begin with. Most are better off behind a keyboard then the wheel of a 500+ HP car. Take any car and place it in the hands of a really good test driver (strip and road course) and the inconsistencies are minimized or even eliminated altogether. The problem today is we have all these internet morons who think the can drive when in reality they cannot, make a few runs and proceed to spout off about car x is sooo much better/faster than car y bro. And the sheepeople eat it up and spread the gospel. Concerning the approach Frod has taken with the GT500 safety measures, I think you are correct. To your point, if these Frod owners can't keep a 400HP car out of a crowd leaving Cars and Coffe, how the hell are they going to fare any better with an extra 300+ HP? They aren't.

100%

Originally Posted by oldman

All tracks time differently. My local track that I've done maybe 2000 passes down maybe quite a big more. On open nights the timer does NOT start till you break the beam. So if you know what you are doing you got 10" to 12" of run time before the beam is broken. That is .3 or more right there. If this GT500 launch control is lazy even better.
It was not that long ago that 3rd wheel was the way most production cars were tested with the roll out built in. I.E. the posted 1/4 mile time was actually 1329 feet the first foot or .3 never was counted.
My take especially magazine testers, the timer don't start till the beam is broken, the hero runs are deep staged full tree i.e. he is launching the car at on the first yellow and is moving a full 10" before the green.

Man you really don't understand drag timing, but Robby once again beat me to the fact drop like always.

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

I agree with what you're saying but most tracks time the way you described, after you cross the beams. That's why guys chasing times not racing just sit there on their LC or 2 step while the car next to them is already halfway down the track. They don't care they just want the time.
As far as deep staging and shallow staging. Deep staging is when you get all the way up to the beams to have a kick ass reaction time and get a slight lead to actually win a race getting as far up as possible. When you're as far away from the beams as possible to get a little bit of a running start by 10"-12", that's called shallow staging. Also what the guys doing hero runs do. Thats what Revan Evan does and all those guys not racing anyone just trying to get the best et possible.
As far as the 3 foot roll out practice, I actually think more of the mags are doing that now. Car and Driver had an article on it a few months ago. They were going to switch over to the 3 foot roll out method just like the majority of the car rags are already doing according to them.

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

Instead of having that uncounted time like a shalllow stage between the driver reacting and tripping the beams almost a foot later, in a deepstage the car is tripping the beam immediately as the driver reacts. Breaking the beam starts the timer and sets the reaction time between the tree giving you the go light and you tripping the beam.

These facts

[oldman]

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

Man you really don't understand drag timing, but Robby once again beat me to the fact drop like always.


These facts

Um I got deep and shallow stage mixed up while I was playing a game WOT and probably drinking too (I never tank without drinking). What other "facts" did I get wrong. I'm pointing out that 1/4 mile times in part are dependent on how they are measured. That hero times don't represent flag drop or stop light or 3rd wheel times. The GT500 is obviously is WAY slower on true 0-60 times. AKA I slap down the throttle and when I reach 60 that is the time. But with a good driver and staging and making use of roll out, I pointed out it can go much quicker in the trimmed 1/4 mile. On the street where most of these cars will spend 99.9% of their lives, it is 0-60 that is the true measure of the cars acceleration chops and the C8 destroys the GT500 by a wide margin and the GT500 is within a driver's race of even a GT and SS and that would be ONLY if the dude does not use LC, because it is obviously sluggish. So please if you know so much about it, why did you not bring it up before? Right.. thought so. Basically all these tests are designed to show how a production car will perform on the street, and it should be obvious from the video any flag drop type or measure the GT500 is sluggish. Forum rules prevent us from talking about other types of street acceleration, that said, a car that is sluggish from a non-count down start, is going to get whipped out in actual usage. It's like taking a shotput to a fencing match, both are actually weapons of war FYI.

[TheRealJA105]

Every drag strip times the same way, when the tire leaves the beam. Just like Robby said, you can sit there all day and it doesn't affect your ET, only RT and RT is not part of your 1/4 mile time. RT only matters if you are racing the guy in the other lane...
The GT500 is slow 0-60 because where have i said this a million times before? TRACTION! THAT'S THE ONLY REASON

You don't care about track times or strip times and I don't care about your street times. The track and strip are where real performance is measured and I am in the 0.1% I guess so that's why i think this way.

[Laststandard]

Originally Posted by LESS1

The same was said of tuning computer-controlled fuel and timing back in the 1980s yet here we are in a world where you don't have to drive to far to find a shop that can tune the vehicle of your choice to extract more HP/TQ and in some cases better efficiency and MPG. I'm not saying suspension tuning is easy because it isn't but tuned for individual use without giving consideration to a compliant, good ride...etc it is absolutely possible to surpass OEM MRC damping along with much more tunability than a set of "click to change" dampers which lacks the fidelity of changing ones and zeros.

Suspension is a much different animal than ECM tuning. Also, you realize that the 80s were 30+ years ago, right? By that timeline we should have effective aftermarket MRC tuning by.. 2040 or 2050? Do you know what else makes it easy? Chassis and engine dynos are widespread and allow you to have a repeatable test for tuning. How many full car suspension dynos are out there? Not many. You know who has them? Manufacturers.

The people who have positive things to say about DSC on the Camaro 6 platform almost always turn out to be sponsored / given product by them. Or they pop the DSC controller on a street car and say it 'feels' better.

I'll trust members like Ryephile on the issue:

Originally Posted by Ryephile

Not exactly. The point is to optimize the weight transfer vs. time curve for the tire being used. It doesn't increase peak grip, but the lateral acceleration vs. time plot will have more area under the curve with an optimized damper.

Tuning the DSC module, much like the OEM tuning the factory MRC, requires a non-trivial amount of telemetry on top of very skilled test driver feedback. You can get a setup to get great lap times at the expense of being enjoyable for the driver (for a variety of reasons), and vice versa.

When I tested the DSC module at Grattan, I had 4 pre-made tunes that all took different philosophical directions. I loaded each one for each session, chose the one that A) had the best lap times and B) had the best driver feedback, and then pushed forward on that path to improve both throughout the weekend. This had been preceded by weeks of street-tuning. In all I ended up with over 30 positive tune revisions before calling DSC and kindly asking for a refund, which they graciously did. At best I was able to match my OEM controller's lap time at the expense of the car feeling floaty and reactive. It wasn't fun to drive. The out-of-the-box tune put me 5 seconds off my usual pace. I am an instructor for Great Lakes Lotus Club and I have 13 years of HPDE experience on top of 9 years of national-level R/C racing, including a state championship.

DSC controllers are just a solution looking for a problem.

Sorry, rant over.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

Every drag strip times the same way, when the tire leaves the beam. Just like Robby said, you can sit there all day and it doesn't affect your ET, only RT and RT is not part of your 1/4 mile time. RT only matters if you are racing the guy in the other lane...
The GT500 is slow 0-60 because where have i said this a million times before? TRACTION! THAT'S THE ONLY REASON

The faster times, the car has traveled a foot and that could equal .3 in 1/4 time. That is ALL that I'm pointing out, not weather the beam is being broken or restored to set the actual timer, the fact is that the quicker hero runs are being done with the car already moving and the flag drop is done with the car stationary and the GT500 is sluggish in a flagdrop which the type of acceleration Joe average car buy does on the street, unless traffic lights in your area have some sort of beam roll-out launch with tree.

Yet you claim the "only reason" is traction, do you think the GT500 is unique on not being able to hook all its HP to the ground? Is slower in a flag drop in part to a lazy DCT, it is slower 0-60 than its 1/4 miles times would lead one to believe in part because many 1/4 mile runs are made with 1 foot roll outs, while a flag drop drag or 0-60 is just that, which car is faster to speed or distance and 0-60 the GT500 is way slower than a launch controlled 760 HP should be, about as fast a bolton auto SS and I would assume bolton auto GT, that ain't good.

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

E
You don't care about track times or strip times and I don't care about your street times. The track and strip are where real performance is measured and I am in the 0.1% I guess so that's why i think this way.

Yep and when I do go to my local strip I see about 50 racers a night about 1/2 them are on licensed street cars and about 10% of them even have street radials. But on my daily drives I see and many performance cars in the wild. You think the dude next to me on my way to yoga rolls down his window and shows me his time slip. I don't know why you are getting all wound up about this I was then as of now merely pointing out that hero drag strip runs are different from what Joe Average thinks about acceleration runs. That anything the mimics 3rd wheel, true street performance or 0-60 will show the GT500 to be much SLOWER than expected for a 760 HP car shod with cup2 tires.

[TheRealJA105]

Originally Posted by oldman

I should have said "restored" the beam, big deal point is the car has traveled a foot and that could equal .3 in 1/4 time. That is ALL that I'm pointing out, not weather the beam is being broken or restored to set the actual timer, the fact is that the quicker hero runs are being done with the car already moving and the flag drop is done with the car stationary and the GT500 is sluggish in a flagdrop which the type of accelration Joe average car buy does on the street, unless traffic lights in your area have some sort of beam roll-out launch with tree.

Yep and when I do go to my local strip I see about 50 racers a night about 1/2 them are on licensed street cars and about 10% of them even have street radials. But on my daily drives I see and many performance cars in the wild. You think the dude rolls down his window and shows me his time slip.

The way you wrote it, you literally didn't understand how the timer worked. To get the fastest run you prepare for it, it's not cheating
GT500 is not sluggish off the line. It's launch control has a delay. If GT500 driver doesn't use launch control he can manually launch at the flag drop with no delay.

I don't live in Mexico "Texas" like you so I hardly see other performance cars unless I'm cruising with my buddies.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

The way you wrote it, you literally didn't understand how the timer worked. To get the fastest run you prepare for it, it's not cheating

Never said anything about "cheating" you're just throwing that out as a strawman. I did say then as I continue to say that the hero runs etc are making use of roll-out. That true street performace, 0-60, stop light street fights, flag drop, or I just press the gas when the light turns green are more reflective in 0-60 times and / or devices that don't make use of roll-out. In these cases which is the case faced by Joe Average on a performace street car the GT500 is substantially slower than what some hero runs would lead one to belive. That is all I'm saying.

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

GT500 is not sluggish off the line. It's launch control has a delay. If GT500 driver doesn't use launch control he can manually launch at the flag drop with no delay.

and that my friend is something I've already said and then as you continue to insist the GT500 is severely traction limited. I see no advantage the GT500 has in this scenario (assuming a properly behaved DCT) vs my M6 SS, which I can tell you right now 99% of the heros could not "manually launch" my car. Trying to launch a 760 HP car manually will just yield to frustration. My M6 is no faster 0-60 right now than it was with bolt-ons, and a whole lot less consistent. Please I don't know what car you actually drive on the street. I do know that my car can spin the back tires with about 1/5 the throttle and it is very very hard to "launch".

I like and don't like the GT500 for what it is. The auto trans at this juncture in time is the street fighting 0-60 trans of choice PERIOD.

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

I don't live in Mexico "Texas" like you so I hardly see other performance cars unless I'm cruising with my buddies.

I live in an affluent burb. There are many younger people here and many performance cars, the cars in the wild here range from built muscle cars to high end imports, M4, Audi RS, some Infinity etc. I see a lot of modifications to both domestic and imports vs say Houston or San Antonio where the fast cars are mostly domestic. I guess Austin has a lot more money cause it takes bucks to put an aftermarket turbo on a Boxster flat 6.

I'm sure I'll see both the 6 and 4 Supra in the wild soon, I'm sure the 4 will go to 400 or 500 HP and will be a force in the wild, the 6 I'm sure there will be overshoot and the 700 HP Supra sure will be fast when it ain't broke and / or sitting in the garage. Just speculation. I'm also sure that Joe Average GT500 is going to be (like me) very leary of any auto back SS or GT especailly anything on 100 wear tires like 888R, becuase as you have already said it is a traction issue.

[LESS1]

Originally Posted by Laststandard

Suspension is a much different animal than ECM tuning. Also, you realize that the 80s were 30+ years ago, right? By that timeline we should have effective aftermarket MRC tuning by.. 2040 or 2050? Do you know what else makes it easy? Chassis and engine dynos are widespread and allow you to have a repeatable test for tuning. How many full car suspension dynos are out there? Not many. You know who has them? Manufacturers.

The people who have positive things to say about DSC on the Camaro 6 platform almost always turn out to be sponsored / given product by them. Or they pop the DSC controller on a street car and say it 'feels' better.

I'll trust members like Ryephile on the issue:



DSC controllers are just a solution looking for a problem.

Sorry, rant over.

And you completely missed my point. Let me try again. Just because MRC tuning isn't mainstream and widely accepted doesn't mean it isn't a viable option which when tuned correctly will produce positive results. Your skepticism is based on a few opinions and incomplete data. You cannot tune a suspension for the race track (road course) on the street, sorry it doesn't work. And the results you provided support this fact. As far as requiring a "suspension dyno, to extract improvements, this is also not correct. However to address your question, sure thing I have access to a shaker table, as do you or anyone willing to do the research and spend the money. To close let me add that as I said before this isn't easy but when done correctly the gains are there, just need to put in the time and effort. Here is a link you might find interesting. I think you may have heard of at least one of these gents. Enjoy! https://rennlist.com/forums/gt4/9404...acing-gt4.html

[TheRealJA105]

Originally Posted by oldman

Never said anything about "cheating" you're just throwing that out as a strawman. I did say then as I continue to say that the hero runs etc are making use of roll-out. That true street performace, 0-60, stop light street fights, flag drop, or I just press the gas when the light turns green are more reflective in 0-60 times and / or devices that don't make use of roll-out. In these cases which is the case faced by Joe Average on a performace street car the GT500 is substantially slower than what some hero runs would lead one to belive. That is all I'm saying.

and that my friend is something I've already said and then as you continue to insist the GT500 is severely traction limited. I see no advantage the GT500 has in this scenario (assuming a properly behaved DCT) vs my M6 SS, which I can tell you right now 99% of the heros could not "manually launch" my car. Trying to launch a 760 HP car manually will just yield to frustration. My M6 is no faster 0-60 right now than it was with bolt-ons, and a whole lot less consistent. Please I don't know what car you actually drive on the street. I do know that my car can spin the back tires with about 1/5 the throttle and it is very very hard to "launch".

I like and don't like the GT500 for what it is. The auto trans at this juncture in time is the street fighting 0-60 trans of choice PERIOD.

I live in an affluent burb. There are many younger people here and many performance cars, the cars in the wild here range from built muscle cars to high end imports, M4, Audi RS, some Infinity etc. I see a lot of modifications to both domestic and imports vs say Houston or San Antonio where the fast cars are mostly domestic. I guess Austin has a lot more money cause it takes bucks to put an aftermarket turbo on a Boxster flat 6.

I didn't mean that you were saying it's cheating. I just don't get why you and Blaq harp on the "oh they went to the strip and only talk about one run". No one goes to the strip and talks about all there slower runs. Everyone uses roll out, the mags are just now disclosing that.

If you can get faster times in your car or a stock car with launch control, then you are bad at launching, it's as simple as that. My Supercharged A8 is hard to launch too, even with DRs I can't floor the thing, but LC sucks in the Camaros.

I really don't like the GT500, I'd never buy one, I just don't like when you guys create imaginary problems for it. Traction being equal, the GT500 is faster than the ZL1.

I live in PA, the roads are shit and it's 18 degrees and snowing

[oldman]

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

I didn't mean that you were saying it's cheating. I just don't get why you and Blaq harp on the "oh they went to the strip and only talk about one run". No one goes to the strip and talks about all there slower runs. Everyone uses roll out, the mags are just now disclosing that.

If you can get faster times in your car or a stock car with launch control, then you are bad at launching, it's as simple as that. My Supercharged A8 is hard to launch too, even with DRs I can't floor the thing, but LC sucks in the Camaros.

I really don't like the GT500, I'd never buy one, I just don't like when you guys create imaginary problems for it. Traction being equal, the GT500 is faster than the ZL1.

I live in PA, the roads are shit and it's 18 degrees and snowing

I merely said the hero runs are misleading and the flag drop along with 0-60 times are more reflective on how the car actually works on the road. This was AFTER the C8 all doing staging on a dry non-prep surface one after the other with apparently no issues. That is all I'm saying. The GT500 hero runs are less reflective of what the car is capable of in the wild.

Me personally, I'm more scared of an auto with 100 wear tires; which I see all the time on my private roadway....

For decades now the roads here were straight and long, now the people from CA are moving to Austin in droves bringing issues to a once fun and open area... shame really.