[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Now we have an awesome GT350R who has the handling and braking package needed but doesn't have the 662 hp. If it had this wouldn't even be a conversation.

But see that is a speculation. Chances are that Ford would not have been able to make the GT350R with that kind of hp AND be reasonably affordable. If they had added a 650+ power plant then they would have had to cut the costs elsewhere...like the CF wheels or dropping the FPC for a standard crank. Or Chevy would have aimed the ZL1 higher. Which is why you can't always speculate. Or if you're gonna do that then you have to speculate on both ends. Don't foget the GT350 was out first and they aimed it at the then-current Z28 and ZL1. The 6th Gen ZL1 came afterwards and aimed at the current GT350R and aimed it a little higher than that. So the same thing would have happened if the Shelby did have more power.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

But see that is a speculation. Chances are that Ford would not have been able to make the GT350R with that kind of hp AND be reasonably affordable. If they had added a 650+ power plant then they would have had to cut the costs elsewhere...like the CF wheels or dropping the FPC for a standard crank. Or Chevy would have aimed the ZL1 higher. Which is why you can't always speculate. Or if you're gonna do that then you have to speculate on both ends. Don't foget the GT350 was out first and they aimed it at the then-current Z28 and ZL1. The 6th Gen ZL1 came afterwards and aimed at the current GT350R and aimed it a little higher than that. So the same thing would have happened if the Shelby did have more power.

Maybe but that huge hp/tq advantage the ZL1 enjoys is making a very big impact in all test performance venues. Question is will Ford now build a 500 to challenge the present ZL1 or decide to sit out the looming hp wars.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Maybe but that huge hp/tq advantage the ZL1 enjoys is making a very big impact in all test performance venues. Question is will Ford now build a 500 to challenge the present ZL1 or decide to sit out the looming hp wars.

I think that Ford will probably sit the GT500 out for this round. Looking at it logically, the Dodge Demon is out. The ZL1 1LE is out. Even Jeep released all the info on the Trackhawk and it is about to be out there. And despite all of this there is no word on the GT500. So again, logically thinking, if Ford is playing the waiting game, how much longer will they wait? At some point they will lose their customers to the Hellcats and Demons and ZL1s and even Trackhawks. I have the means to get one but the fact that there was no word on it's release made me jump when I had the chance to get my ZL1. So all of that tells me that Ford might be sitting this one out.

[BlaqWhole]

This isn't a jab so don't take it that way. But it seems to me that Ford got caught with their pants down and are pretty much stuck. I mean, even if there was an official word to say "Hey, yes the GT500 will be out for (insert model year). Stay tuned for more details"...that would be enough to make people wait. But all this time no word on it is a bit messed up if you ask me.

I think the problem is that Ford has to fit in somewhere. Dodge is taking over the drag racing section. They make their cars for straight line performance and have no qualms advertising it as such. Chevy makes their cars more all around performers. They may not be the best at one particular thing. But they can beat everyone else when everything is thrown in the mix. Ford did very well making a car that corners. But it needs more than that to keep up. And that is where the pricing comes into play which I think is gonna be a problem for them. Because the Demons, Hellcats, and ZL1s offer all their performance plus some killer options. So Ford will have to add in options and keep the performance really good to make their Mustangs and Shelbys worthwhile. That is my take anyhow.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by newmoon

I get what your saying but bottom line was the 500 was faster, unfortunately Ford put cheap brakes on the car. Now we have an awesome GT350R who has the handling and braking package needed but doesn't have the 662 hp. If it had this wouldn't even be a conversation.

An old expression comes to mind. "It's not as easy as it looks".

There has been, what is assumed to be, GT500s running around for a while but still no release from Ford. They've even been sighted with ZL1s so it's a good assumption. I'm sure they'll have the straight line down but would bet the delay is the desire for a sure track win.

Then there is the ZL1-1LE. A new GT500 would certainly be put up against it. 7:16.04

and bottom line. The 13/14 GT500 wasn't completely sorted as delivered.

Edit: SS-1LE (455 HP) and GT350TP (526 HP). Power won't decide that one. Chevy has chassis dynamics down

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by hotlap

An old expression comes to mind. "It's not as easy as it looks".

There has been, what is assumed to be, GT500s running around for a while but still no release from Ford. They've even been sighted with ZL1s so it's a good assumption. I'm sure they'll have the straight line down but would bet the delay is the desire for a sure track win.

Then there is the ZL1-1LE. A new GT500 would certainly be put up against it. 7:16.04

and bottom line. The 13/14 GT500 wasn't completely sorted as delivered.

Edit: SS-1LE (455 HP) and GT350TP (526 HP). Power won't decide that one. Chevy has chassis dynamics down

If the 500 doesn't have an automatic they have no hope of topping the Hellcat never mind the Demon in the 1/4 mile. Look at the difference in performance between the auto vs manual ZL1s and Hellcats. Now the ZL1-1LE is out for track duty. That doesn't leave much room at the top of the food chain for them.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by newmoon

If the 500 doesn't have an automatic they have no hope of topping the Hellcat never mind the Demon in the 1/4 mile. Look at the difference in performance between the auto vs manual ZL1s and Hellcats. Now the ZL1-1LE is out for track duty. That doesn't leave much room at the top of the food chain for them.

I'd guess a 13/14 GT500 with a 8 or 10 speed automatic would beat a Hellcat/ZL1 and I'd also bet that a new GT500 will have the 10 speed. The Demon is kind of a freak that I don't expect Ford or Chevy will answer (all due respect). Track duty IMO is the hard part.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

In the H2H between the GT500 and the ZL1, they picked the ZL1 for objective reasons. It didn't win off of anything subjective. In the H2H of the GT350 vs the 17 ZL1, the Shelby won solely off of opinions and had nothing to do with how the cars performed.

However, in each case, I preferred the losing car. In 13 I would have bought the GT500. And now I prefer the ZL1.

If anything I would say the H2H with the ZL1 and GT500 they picked the ZL1 bc of a combo of objective and subjective. GT500 won the stat sheet, posted faster lap time and in the subjective department RP said it was the more fun car to drive. ZL1 was easier to live with and easier to push at its limits.

And Ford has something coming. Don't know what, but there are numerous photos and videos of something heavily camo'd running around. Maybe they did get caught with their pants down, or maybe they don't want a repeat of the 350 base and tech cars so they are really hammering down the testing

[KyleL]

Originally Posted by shaffe

If anything I would say the H2H with the ZL1 and GT500 they picked the ZL1 bc of a combo of objective and subjective. GT500 won the stat sheet, posted faster lap time and in the subjective department RP said it was the more fun car to drive. ZL1 was easier to live with and easier to push at its limits.

And Ford has something coming. Don't know what, but there are numerous photos and videos of something heavily camo'd running around. Maybe they did get caught with their pants down, or maybe they don't want a repeat of the 350 base and tech cars so they are really hammering down the testing

Maybe they're also waiting for GM to put all it's zl1 info out there (i.e. Ring time) and to see if dodge does anything else with the hellcat aside from a wide body so they'll know what they have to shoot for