[DatBrotato]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

Yea its spark and throttle based... My point was on these engines the limiter does not act the same. I can be wot on the limiter and the rpm doesn't bounce like a older LS engine does.

whether you cut spark or air first you're still going to "bounce" off the limiter.
Audibly there's no difference.

[KingLT1]

mine don't bounce, it just cuts off like you let off the throttle.

[oldman]

can someone tell me on the stock phaser, what is the setting with no oil pressure, ie the spring is pushing it all the way into the stop? I'm assuming the 40 degree limiter block that I put in is on the empty side, opposite side of the chambers that fill? Dunno. If it is just the spring that holds this at zero degrees advance / retard that is kind of scary.

[62nalide]

Originally Posted by DatBrotato

It made really good numbers on the Dyno, so no complaints there.
Exhaust valve was the one that got tagged/broke off. Wonder if there's a correlation

What springs are you running?

[DatBrotato]

Originally Posted by 62nalide

What springs are you running?

BTR .660 duals

[RonatVengeance]

Originally Posted by DatBrotato

Car went in to get a vengeance stage III cam package put in.
This included AFM delete, LS7 Lifters, Trunion rocker arms, BTR .660 lift double valve springs, head studs, and chromly pushrods.

Within 24hrs of receiving the car it saw 3 pulls.
On the 3rd pull I miss-shifted from 3rd to 4th gear and the car free-revved and saw redline(6850) and well...
the photos and video speak for themselves.
As you can see from the video this wasn't a 3-2 shift, it was a free revv with some momentum behind the rotating assembly.

Shop(Speedtek) is covering labor and machine work on the rebuild.
Shop claims they didn't do a PTV clearance check because it's a common LT1 H/C package
Vengeance refused to concede that any of the parts they provided could've been out of manufacturer tolerance.
Heads weren't milled, stock depth gaskets.

1 cylinder wall was marred and will require a hone.
Head is salvageable.
All pistons got tagged, 1 got windowed.
Time for forged drop-ins.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/4ULeAJ44xJ6H7MWa6
https://photos.app.goo.gl/1xcjh3PdrvVxPZtv9
https://photos.app.goo.gl/WsP59gXfHL19TKNx9
https://photos.app.goo.gl/WsP59gXfHL19TKNx9

I am very sorry to hear of your failure as I HATE seeing folks not enjoying their vehicles, but I am confused as to why Vengeance would be to blame for your issues?

You pay a shop to professionally install an aftermarket cam kit and they do not check piston to valve? Do you know if they checked install height on the spring kit? You can have all the ptv in the world, but if the valves are FLOATING then you will make contact.

Do you have any logs of the camshaft VVT tables at WOT? Is the camshaft moving at all? IE retarding or advancing due to oil pressure not controlling the VVT? This is common FWIW.

I just checked our records and we have sold/installed 173 Stage III LT camshafts with you being the first reported failure. There are also numerous other reputable companies out there with similar specs and no issues to report.

Also please note it is not that Vengeance "denied" anything, but the situation is out of our control when another professional shop performs an installation and ECU calibration and does not take the proper steps to avoid situations exactly like this one. The way to determine if a camshaft is out of spec or "manufacturer tolerance" as you put it would be to degree the camshaft or at minimum verify ptv during installation

If you would like to discuss things further you are welcome to call me at 678 513 7105 ext 5


Regards

[DatBrotato]

Originally Posted by RonatVengeance

I am very sorry to hear of your failure as I HATE seeing folks not enjoying their vehicles, but I am confused as to why Vengeance would be to blame for your issues?

You pay a shop to professionally install an aftermarket cam kit and they do not check piston to valve? Do you know if they checked install height on the spring kit? You can have all the ptv in the world, but if the valves are FLOATING then you will make contact.

Do you have any logs of the camshaft VVT tables at WOT? Is the camshaft moving at all? IE retarding or advancing due to oil pressure not controlling the VVT? This is common FWIW.

I just checked our records and we have sold/installed 173 Stage III LT camshafts with you being the first reported failure. There are also numerous other reputable companies out there with similar specs and no issues to report.

Also please note it is not that Vengeance "denied" anything, but the situation is out of our control when another professional shop performs an installation and ECU calibration and does not take the proper steps to avoid situations exactly like this one. The way to determine if a camshaft is out of spec or "manufacturer tolerance" as you put it would be to degree the camshaft or at minimum verify ptv during installation

If you would like to discuss things further you are welcome to call me at 678 513 7105 ext 5


Regards

I never implied majority blame on any individual involved. I merely stated the possibility that some blame could be placed on the manufacturer and quoted your representative's outright denial of that, before any facts were brought up.

I wonder, how many of those sold were for 2018 LT1s?
The camshaft isn't the only part that could be out of tolerance..
I am not a mechanic nor was I present during install.
Instead I had my shop try to contact you about the matter all last week and they've stated your reps haven't returned any of their calls.

They're stating that camshaft was too big to be advertised for a stock LT1 and should've required flycut pistons and stiffer springs. They spoke with your reps before the install and stated their concern about its size..

That aside let the record show I'm the one taking the blunt of this. My shop is playing hot potato with the blame by placing it on you and is no longer covering the whole bill.

I will no longer be returning to that shop after this build is (re)done and will not be purchasing your products in the future.

[RonatVengeance]

Originally Posted by DatBrotato

I never implied majority blame on any individual involved. I merely stated the possibility that some blame could be placed on the manufacturer and quoted your representative's outright denial of that, before any facts were brought up.

I wonder, how many of those sold were for 2018 LT1s?
The camshaft isn't the only part that could be out of tolerance..
I am not a mechanic nor was I present during install.
Instead I had my shop try to contact you about the matter all last week and they've stated your reps haven't returned any of their calls.

They're stating that camshaft was too big to be advertised for a stock LT1 and should've required flycut pistons and stiffer springs. They spoke with your reps before the install and stated their concern about its size..

That aside let the record show I'm the one taking the blunt of this. My shop is playing hot potato with the blame by placing it on you and is no longer covering the whole bill.

I will no longer be returning to that shop after this build is (re)done and will not be purchasing your products in the future.

I can tell you for FACT your shop is lying to you about our reps not returning phone calls. There are three of us in the office and I monitor all phone lines incoming and outgoing. We return ALL phone calls within 24 hours and I would be happy to log into my Comcast portal to show this.

Again, there was no "denial"... It is up to your professional installation shop to measure/verify BEFORE taking final payment and sending you down the road, not after you experience a catastrophic failure. Had someone called us and said "hey, we degreed your camshaft and advertised lift is xxx and actual lift is xxx" or "hey we verified piston to valve clearance on this camshaft and it is .080 and we prefer to see .090 or better" then you would not be in this situation.

As I said I am truly sorry you are in this position. I understand your anger and frustration, BUT you seem to be casting that net of frustration quite broadly when it should be directed to the shop who installed/modified your car.

*Install shop did NOT verify piston to valve clearance (even though they stated prior to installing the camshaft it was too big as stated above?)

*Install shop did NOT degree the camshaft to ensure actual specifications matched advertised specifications.

*Install shop did not verify install height on valve springs yet states there should have been stiffer springs used (after the fact?). Feel free to call Brian Tooley to discuss his spring kit being used with our camshaft.

*Install shop did not call us ( can be proven with ZERO doubt) to discuss any concerns before/during/after installation.


The information above is FACTUAL, not speculation and not emotion, just pure facts. It seems your "professional shop" may not be so professional or they would have taken the proper steps to ensure your modifications were reliable and enjoyable. I am sorry to lose you as a customer, but again I am not sure how we could be to blame in this situation or more importantly I am not sure how we could actually help at this point?

Again my phone # is posted above if you would like to discuss things with me personally.

[Bumblbee16]

I don't understand why there is frustration towards Vengeance and any of their parts tbh..

[S2K+1LE]

I'm more likely to purchase products from Vengance after seeing the professionalism in these replies.

Sucks for Brotato, but you really shouldn't be throwing around blame without proof.

[DatBrotato]

Go and reread my statements. I never threw blame, I simply stated some very real possibilities.

My shop and vengeance are the only ones throwing blame around(at each other).
Neither party wants to take ownership of any part of the blame, it's all hearsay. So I'm stuck holding the bag. There's 0 professionalism in any of this.
Just 2 parties being children, only interested in their bottoms lines.
The only absolute fact in this situation is this SHOULD NOT have happened given the context I presented.

When one pays top dollar for service & parts this is the worst one could expect from both businesses in a worst case scenario.

At the very least let my situation be a lesson to y'all.
No matter how highly regarded either party is, they simply don't give a rats ass about their customers.

[KingLT1]

You are posting out of frustration and I don't blame you for being upset
but Vengeance did nothing wrong. Your shop isn't worth a shit...plain and simple. Any reputable shop that is not familiar with a specific combination of parts should take the necessary precautions to make sure everything works. That includes, checking, PTV, degreeing the cam, and verifying install height on the Valve springs along with correct push rod length. Not all engines are exactly the same. Your shop simply doesn't want to pay for their mistake and they are trying to make the parts supplier look bad.

[RonatVengeance]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

You are posting out of frustration and I don't blame you for being upset
but Vengeance did nothing wrong. Your shop isn't worth a shit...plain and simple. Any reputable shop that is not familiar with a specific combination of parts should take the necessary precautions to make sure everything works. That includes, checking, PTV, degreeing the cam, and verifying install height on the Valve springs along with correct push rod length. Not all engines are exactly the same. Your shop simply doesn't want to pay for their mistake and they are trying to make the parts supplier look bad.

You have renewed my faith in mankind and the internet this morning.

[RonatVengeance]

Originally Posted by DatBrotato

Go and reread my statements. I never threw blame, I simply stated some very real possibilities.

My shop and vengeance are the only ones throwing blame around(at each other).
Neither party wants to take ownership of any part of the blame, it's all hearsay. So I'm stuck holding the bag. There's 0 professionalism in any of this.
Just 2 parties being children, only interested in their bottoms lines.
The only absolute fact in this situation is this SHOULD NOT have happened given the context I presented.

When one pays top dollar for service & parts this is the worst one could expect from both businesses in a worst case scenario.

At the very least let my situation be a lesson to y'all.
No matter how highly regarded either party is, they simply don't give a rats ass about their customers.

I am truly sorry you feel the way you do. This is my third reply in this post with you bashing my company without merit while I try to offer advice and help you navigate thru this situation. It is obvious to me you do not understand the FACTS I am sharing with you and would rather just trash my company.

Vengeance is actually known for our customer service and support of our clients as much, if not more than our actual performance products and builds. We have helped more people than I can even begin to remember thru tough situations when there was even a 1% doubt something may have been our fault. We have been open for TWELVE YEARS now with an impeccable reputation and we did not EARN that reputation by not caring about those who support us. Unfortunately we would not be here to support those same great folks if I gave away product/money everytime we sold something to someone that did not follow proper protocol/installation procedures.

Again, best of luck and if I can offer any additional guidance/assistance moving forward my number and direct extension is posted above.

BTW, I ran our Stage III camshaft in our shop R&D C7 back in 2014.. I put 3000 miles on it and COUNTLESS 7000rpm shifts with ZERO issues.