02-24-2020, 02:48 PM | #155 | |
Drives: SS 6 speed of course Join Date: Jan 2016
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Nutshell especially with STP / STD HP, we are getting far removed from the concept of having a wheel HP number that we can compare with other dynos or with the SAE engine HP using a drivetrain loss factor. The vast majority of magazines apply STD HP to a FI engine in Denver Co. say Supra and then apply a 15% drivetrain loss and wonder why it does not equal SAE. For sure not all engines are certified SAE (even though they report SAE HP), that said, you are 100% certaint that if the engine is SAE certified it is producing within a very tight tolerance the HP and torque listed. https://www.sae.org/certifiedpower/data/ That is what happens when people start racing dyno numbers.. I have no dyno numbers but my LT1 stock pistons and rods were run with heads, cam, header, E85 4.0 pulley D1X and the pistons look mint.
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Forged short block, large duration sub .600 lift Cam Motion cam, 7200 RPM fuel cut, Pray Ported Heads, 3.85 pulley D1X, stage II intercooler, DSX secondary low side, DSX E85 sensor, Lingenfelter big bore 2.0 pump, ported front cats, 60608 Borla, LT4 injectors, ZL1 1LE driveshaft and Katech ported TB, ported MSD intake, BTR valvetrain, ARP studs, ProFlow valves, PS4 tires.
Last edited by oldman; 02-24-2020 at 03:09 PM. |
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02-24-2020, 05:42 PM | #156 | |
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Also the guy that I quoted did not break his engine. When he said that he was fortunate that his ring gaps were .015", it's pretty obvious to me that he meant he was fortunate not to get one of the cars that come with .007" gaps. And I agreed with him. |
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02-24-2020, 06:04 PM | #157 |
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I think with such small sample sizes and such wide variance in HP and usage prevents us to state what exactly leads to engine failure. IMO, I think there is minimal failure with base setups, and extensive failure on the most aggressive setups on stock engines ( or even built engines). I think road racing (or long street events), next would be year on year aggressive street driving, followed by 1/4 usage. Note I'm only addressing engine stock engine failure on FI. For mods, 7 PSI would be a minimal failure, 14 PSI up better start that forged short block project. These two separate things probably can be multiplied out.
ie minimum boost x not crazy DD = low failure 14 PSI boost and the Silver State Challenge= explosion somewhere, sometime soon. I hope you are not going 180 MPH.
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Forged short block, large duration sub .600 lift Cam Motion cam, 7200 RPM fuel cut, Pray Ported Heads, 3.85 pulley D1X, stage II intercooler, DSX secondary low side, DSX E85 sensor, Lingenfelter big bore 2.0 pump, ported front cats, 60608 Borla, LT4 injectors, ZL1 1LE driveshaft and Katech ported TB, ported MSD intake, BTR valvetrain, ARP studs, ProFlow valves, PS4 tires.
Last edited by oldman; 02-25-2020 at 07:14 AM. |
02-25-2020, 06:47 AM | #158 | |
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As far as the ring gap.... Still not buying the whole ring butt thing. I can see your point on that also though. |
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03-05-2020, 10:06 AM | #159 |
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I said it many times Ring Gaps are not the problem.
One of the 7 deadliest sins Greed. Ted.
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04-10-2020, 02:11 AM | #160 | |
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03-03-2022, 07:34 PM | #161 | ||
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In other words, what would you feel safe tuning to on stock pistons/rods if there were no fueling limit. On 93 and e85 Not arguing, simply asking out of curiosity.
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2007 Colorado I-5 3.7L z85 2wd ext. cab --Totaled 2004 Silverado single cab 4.8l v-8 2wd -- Traded 2018 Camaro SS 1LE -- Current DD |
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03-03-2022, 08:08 PM | #162 | |
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We made 800+ RWHP on the LS3 back in 2010 and it's still running perfectly today, Proper fueling and octane and Tuning is the magic potion. LOL we just added 430 RWHP to a 53000 mile L99 that is double plus 15% The LTs are stronger than the LS. Ted.
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03-03-2022, 08:29 PM | #163 |
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You're boosting a motor with an 11.5/1 compression ratio. It isn't so much fueling that is the issue in piston failures, it's the octane. You're knocking the thing to death.
E85 has (more) octane, but the LT4 fuel system can't push enough. If you go with an additional fuel system and more PSI, it goes back to octane vs boost vs detonation until you find the weak link. Whether that be head gaskets, or pistons, who knows. I don't know of anyone who has tried taking it that far. Usually when the first motor blows up, a buttload of money is spent upgrading everything and false theories abound as to the cause. (IMO) Every picture of failure I have seen on the board, there is no evidence of seizing. If the piston/rings are expanding due to heat and the rings are butting, there would be scoring of the bore. All the pics show nice bores and cracked pistons. "A hypereutectic piston is an internal combustion engine piston cast using a hypereutectic aluminum alloy with silicon content greater than the eutectic point of 12 weight percent silicon. Most aluminum-silicon casting alloys are hypoeutectic (Si content lower than the eutectic point) and contain relatively fine elemental silicon crystals formed through the eutectic reaction during solidification. In addition to fine silicon crystals, hypereutectic alloys also contain large primary silicon crystals that form before the eutectic reaction, and as a result contain a much higher phase fraction of silicon. Consequently hypereutectic aluminum has a lower coefficient of thermal expansion, which allows engine designers to specify much tighter clearances." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypereutectic_piston "The biggest drawback of adding silicon to pistons is that the piston becomes more brittle as the ratio of silicon is added. This makes the piston more susceptible to cracking if the engine experiences pre-ignition or detonation as well as when power adders are installed." http://www.strokerkits.com/cast-hype...orged-pistons/
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03-04-2022, 08:06 AM | #164 | ||
Drives: 2018 Camaro SS 1LE Join Date: Jul 2010
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2007 Colorado I-5 3.7L z85 2wd ext. cab --Totaled 2004 Silverado single cab 4.8l v-8 2wd -- Traded 2018 Camaro SS 1LE -- Current DD |
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03-04-2022, 09:14 AM | #165 | |
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SBE LT1's are not going to live long @ 800whp. 600whp on pump 93 or 700whp with fuel system upgrades on E is doable. Meth and E @ 800whp can be done but it's getting dicey. Re-gap the rings then I could see sustainable power above 800 being made. The LT1 has tight ring gaps so it's not as boost friendly as a LS3... Being stronger or not is a Moot point. LS3's have routinely made 900+ whp on boost. It was GM's most boost tolerant Aluminum block NA engine to date imo. They have enough ring gap to allow it. GM went to even tighter ring gaps on the NA DI engines to help control oil consumption and blow by from the high pressure fuel system. You can install a cam to bleed off some dynamic compression and that will help raise the HP and Octane wall about 50whp, but imho it's not worth tearing into a LT1 for a cam swap and not doing drop in rod/pistons with it. The engine has to be torn down to the short block anyway.
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