[Evil-Bee-NH]

Originally Posted by cooper1965

Aftermarket is good. You can get forged pistons and rods. Really all ya need as far as internals for big power, block is solid. There is an adapter available to bolt up any of the 4l60e series transmissions.


Kevin has gone through the trouble of compiling a great list of aftermarket parts here: https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=469301

I really should update that again.

[D K]

Along the same lines....
Does anybody know if the bolt pattern is the same as the lfx or ls?
Im sure not, but worth asking just in case....

What I would like to know is whether the mustang trans has the same bolt pattern as the ltg? Surely not.....

Ok then....what about swapping the gears from the mustang to the ats trans?

550lb/ft rated!


I have also seen the zzp website and they seem to have very reasonable prices on the pistons/rods

Originally Posted by wookwook

Cooper you seem to be the main contributor as far as reliability questions i appreciate that. Maybe this falls under a different topic but since were on the subject.. With M6 theres a TR 3160 spec page out there that gives 310 ftlb for manual first gear, and on the gm performance guide they show 325 ftlb for the trans. I charted 315 ftlbs on stock on first - well mostly stock bolted up no CAI nor Catless - run with no ecu mods no RC. Do you think that the car is calibrated that closely really?



Which might be better said, like If one put on slicks and hooked really well at the strip it almost looks like its possible to destroy the trans without even trying... Then adding a tune? These run records with 4 and 5 sec 0-60 with M-6 has me scratching my head.



I know its a rambling question but I know a few of us are considering tuning - ok so I have an email tune I have been studying in comps to the baseline, and it has a 75 ftlb lift over the stock in trq mgmt spec.



Anyone care to offer opines for M-6 as a the weak point? never mind pistons, this is far from that level of load.



THoughts?

[wookwook]

Right On the gm performance website. Trans ro engine conversion kits.

[cooper1965]

Originally Posted by wookwook

Cooper you seem to be the main contributor as far as reliability questions i appreciate that. Maybe this falls under a different topic but since were on the subject.. With M6 theres a TR 3160 spec page out there that gives 310 ftlb for manual first gear, and on the gm performance guide they show 325 ftlb for the trans. I charted 315 ftlbs on stock on first - well mostly stock bolted up no CAI nor Catless - run with no ecu mods no RC. Do you think that the car is calibrated that closely really?



Which might be better said, like If one put on slicks and hooked really well at the strip it almost looks like its possible to destroy the trans without even trying... Then adding a tune? These run records with 4 and 5 sec 0-60 with M-6 has me scratching my head.



I know its a rambling question but I know a few of us are considering tuning - ok so I have an email tune I have been studying in comps to the baseline, and it has a 75 ftlb lift over the stock in trq mgmt spec.



Anyone care to offer opines for M-6 as a the weak point? never mind pistons, this is far from that level of load.



THoughts?

I wouldn't put too much stock in GM's ratings. They are notoriously low on near everything. I have not seen a broken 6-speed that I can think of off the top of my head. Lots of clutch issues though. Should be every bit as strong, if not stronger than the 8l45.

[D K]

Well, for my application the 8l45 wouldnt work...

So I have to find a manual alternative

Like the first 4 gears of the mustang setup, but that overdrive...😫🙄


Im hoping
Hoping
That the gear stacks arent welded and we can come up with a custom setup...but I doubt it as usually you have on gear welded to the mainshaft and the other is tied to something lse..

Either way, Im moving forward!

Closed deck
Ladder mains

This can be something interesting..

Originally Posted by cooper1965

I wouldn't put too much stock in GM's ratings. They are notoriously low on near everything. I have not seen a broken 6-speed that I can think of off the top of my head. Lots of clutch issues though. Should be every bit as strong, if not stronger than the 8l45.

[wookwook]

great input evryone and thanks a ton. This has me 'curious' if the tr 3160 has torque feedback running in a controller somewhere according to gear. first gear is the potential danger point. also explains the pid i found showing about 1200 ftlbs shaft tq. now i know. 4x multiplier in first.

[D K]

It wouldnt be a tq feedback, just written in the tune.

Thats one of the many reasons manufacturers use dbw throttle.

Originally Posted by wookwook

great input evryone and thanks a ton. This has me 'curious' if the tr 3160 has torque feedback running in a controller somewhere according to gear. first gear is the potential danger point. also explains the pid i found showing about 1200 ftlbs shaft tq. now i know. 4x multiplier in first.

[wookwook]

hmm. in launch logging that is tps dip during launch. But I am venturing to guess, and I wonder if any one really knows, we dont really see a hell of a lot of selectables in HPT other than torque and air mass (afr) and timing. And it seems to me that moving the table torque values is more of a "suggestion" to the engine management subsystems than a command. Not including commanded lamba, but in the over all desired torque peaks. Does that go out the window in open loop though? OK WOT isnt really achieved until .... after PE, I will go back to the drawing board and take some time to look at that part. It's all still a bit mashed up for me.

Thanks for inputs DK.

[cooper1965]

The M6 has launch assist RPM limit. Might be what your noticing? Sometimes it hard to decipher your messages clearly.

[wookwook]

I know and I am sorry about my really noob knowledge and also, just plain musing on it during work... I don't have all my facts inline sometimes.

I am using a email tune from a well known vendor for learning, and once I have enough confidence in what I am doing, will do a load up.

Also anybody who knows me by now, knows I tend to go against the grain - I am a notorious DIYer and I like to learn esp things that are extremely challenging.

Also I tend to write stuff thats way too long. SO I offer pictures!!! yea!

OK so heres my current conundrum.


THis my oem ecu. Launching at the strip, and first gear is displayed during launch.

I am trying to wrap my brane around torque management.


1. Gas is pinned at launch. Shows a stepping ramp.
2. Torque limit (presumably) and in the table at 2500 rpm.
3. Peak torque, what is this and why doesnt it match the table?
4. This looks like hookup, tires starting traction.


but looking carefully, at 4, there's no sink in speed - its a perfectly straight ramp. I have other graphs that do show wheel spin and speed blips, but it not on this one.


Of course my logic asks, I can get the best power, and unhinge the torque "management" yet staying safely at the trans limit. ?




And here is an acquired Torque table as you would expect is tweaked for some gain. If I am already hitting the trans M-6 limit, How is the Trans protected from over torque in each of 6 speeds forward? first gear being the only real risk.









SO I have to say I am not Entirely Convinced there is NO feedback path from the Trans to the ECU.

[wookwook]

THiS could have been with the spin control on, Probably would explain that, but





Also - Why in the Hell is the y axis Alcohol Percent?

[cooper1965]

Y-axis is alcohol because it is. You should be around 10% on 93 octane. I would raise that entire table

[wookwook]

I feel so "uninformed" and it drives me nuts. I did a quick scan of hpt docs, and if i read it right it was like since 99 since the inception of eFuel and the calculus kind of just became alcohol, (?). by the time i finish googling around I will end up thinking completely differnet, par for the course.

Cooper, I have a plan to do some improvements on it once its loaded. Owing to the community I now know its a 'starter package'.

Once I get extricated from my own conceptions, I will have more confidence to move ahead. 98 percent of the video blogs are great for tuning theory, but noone has published anything specific enough to this model yet to sholder surf.

[wookwook]

Also I found that the torque limit table is accurate / applicable with traction control switched off. The table values are tracking accuratly in the logs.