LTG or LFX for roadracing?

D K · 09-04-2019, 05:48 PM

Just curious if any of you have roadraced with the LTG?

I'm trying to figure out which engine has better aftermarket support as well as potential?

Any feedback would be helpful.

David

zts1986 · 09-04-2019, 07:00 PM

It doesn't take a whole lot of time or money to make the 2.0T a quicker car than the V6. The aftermarket possibilities seem endless.

D K · 09-04-2019, 07:02 PM

I'm thinking that way too.

Specially as it's going into a 2100lb Miata.

Are the pistons a concern? I have seen people complaining that they are the weak point.

wookwook · 09-04-2019, 07:24 PM

lol nice curve ball. has it been done before? clearly you have studied the ltg. From my reading only- It seems the main failure point is something that causes hydro locking and causes a cave in on the piston side edge, rupturing the rings, destroying the aluminum piston and creating general havoc. Over 400 whp at full torque pulling 3400 lb is rupture point for the rods. People use catch cans as a mitigation but many (ATS FORUMS) don't catch much, others catch a lot. there are strength kits. All I got. No to dissuade but why not a 2.7 v6 ford eco?

D K · 09-04-2019, 08:03 PM

2.7 IS a nice engine, but the draw for the ltg is tat its an inline 4 which makes the throttle body on the side for piping.
plus many others of course....

The other thing is the weight also.

And the fact that its boosted, means you can have different maps for different situations.

wookwook · 09-04-2019, 08:27 PM

yes - of course. had a yearning for a MGBw\ Engine build for a while there. talk about tight lies. no depth clearance. But- this camaro is a lot of fun! No disappointments so far. I would imagine you should come across rebuildable LTGs or pulls in the not too distant future.

wookwook · 09-04-2019, 08:41 PM

If i had to guess and I am, I am guessing hydro locking a piston would be caused by a blown head gasket. over boosting at the previously mentioned stress level and catastrophic failure due to coolant in the cylinder. in this camaro these are the highest tuned factory version LTG that GM runs, per a wiki post somewhere I noticed. hope that helps. Then your into speed shops and new internals. Send pics of the miata when its done. ;>.

D K · 09-04-2019, 10:04 PM

OF course!

There are quite a few lfx builds but I just came across the ltg platform a little while ago and looking at the block - closed deck from the factory = some level of competent engineering at least...

Then looking at the 0-60 threads here and extrapolating a car with over 1000lbs less, and all of a sudden Im scratching my head (am I missing something here?).

I have found that dealing with factory boosted motors is A LOT easier/reliable than adding boost to a N/A motor from factory.
And if I was to go down the LFX road, I would have to boost it anyway (although I would use a sc) - it would make sense to start with a boosted lump.

So who knows? if it pans out, it could be a decent car that surprises a lot of people.

I really appreciate your responses and if you guys can think of anything additional, I'm all ears.

protovack · 09-05-2019, 11:51 AM

An LTG miata sounds insane, really excited to hear how this goes.

cooper1965 · 09-05-2019, 01:24 PM

I have my car pushed pretty hard, probably harder than most for a long time now (stock internals) I have no fear of piston damage whatsoever. Just stay away from the 15' and older engines, make sure you have a good tune, and you should be just fine. I could not imagine how insane my car would be as it sits, if somehow I was able to shave 1400 lbs... OMG!

wookwook · 09-05-2019, 04:47 PM

Agreed- I would think if the same failures where happening on the gen 6 LTG there would definitely be more chatter.

D K · 09-07-2019, 01:07 AM

Whats the aftermarket for these like?

Are there internals and such available?
Im not seeing much, but Im probably looking int the wrong place.

Another question...are transmissions swappable? Does the ltg have the same bolt pattern as the lfx and/or the ls??

cooper1965 · 09-07-2019, 12:43 PM

Aftermarket is good. You can get forged pistons and rods. Really all ya need as far as internals for big power, block is solid. There is an adapter available to bolt up any of the 4l60e series transmissions.

Kevin has gone through the trouble of compiling a great list of aftermarket parts here: https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=469301

wookwook · 09-08-2019, 09:41 AM

Cooper you seem to be the main contributor as far as reliability questions i appreciate that. Maybe this falls under a different topic but since were on the subject.. With M6 theres a TR 3160 spec page out there that gives 310 ftlb for manual first gear, and on the gm performance guide they show 325 ftlb for the trans. I charted 315 ftlbs on stock on first - well mostly stock bolted up no CAI nor Catless - run with no ecu mods no RC. Do you think that the car is calibrated that closely really?

Which might be better said, like If one put on slicks and hooked really well at the strip it almost looks like its possible to destroy the trans without even trying... Then adding a tune? These run records with 4 and 5 sec 0-60 with M-6 has me scratching my head.

I know its a rambling question but I know a few of us are considering tuning - ok so I have an email tune I have been studying in comps to the baseline, and it has a 75 ftlb lift over the stock in trq mgmt spec.

Anyone care to offer opines for M-6 as a the weak point? never mind pistons, this is far from that level of load.

THoughts?

09-04-2019, 05:48 PM	#1
D K Drives: C5 Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: Denver Posts: 141	LTG or LFX for roadracing? Just curious if any of you have roadraced with the LTG? I'm trying to figure out which engine has better aftermarket support as well as potential? Any feedback would be helpful. David

09-05-2019, 01:24 PM	#10
cooper1965 Coopers Camaro Drives: 18 Flex Fuel LTG Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: St. Louis/Sullivan/Washington MO Posts: 933	I have my car pushed pretty hard, probably harder than most for a long time now (stock internals) I have no fear of piston damage whatsoever. Just stay away from the 15' and older engines, make sure you have a good tune, and you should be just fine. I could not imagine how insane my car would be as it sits, if somehow I was able to shave 1400 lbs... OMG! __________________ Flex Fuel tuned by me using HPT-:- ---My Build Thread--- -----My IG PAGe-----

09-07-2019, 12:43 PM	#13
cooper1965 Coopers Camaro Drives: 18 Flex Fuel LTG Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: St. Louis/Sullivan/Washington MO Posts: 933	Aftermarket is good. You can get forged pistons and rods. Really all ya need as far as internals for big power, block is solid. There is an adapter available to bolt up any of the 4l60e series transmissions. Kevin has gone through the trouble of compiling a great list of aftermarket parts here: https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=469301 __________________ Flex Fuel tuned by me using HPT-:- ---My Build Thread--- -----My IG PAGe-----

09-04-2019, 07:00 PM	#2
zts1986 Account Suspended Drives: 2019 Chevrolet Camaro 1LT 2.0T Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 330	It doesn't take a whole lot of time or money to make the 2.0T a quicker car than the V6. The aftermarket possibilities seem endless.

09-04-2019, 07:02 PM	#3
D K Drives: C5 Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: Denver Posts: 141	I'm thinking that way too. Specially as it's going into a 2100lb Miata. Are the pistons a concern? I have seen people complaining that they are the weak point.

09-04-2019, 07:24 PM	#4
wookwook Drives: 18 Camaro LS M6 Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: NH Posts: 698	lol nice curve ball. has it been done before? clearly you have studied the ltg. From my reading only- It seems the main failure point is something that causes hydro locking and causes a cave in on the piston side edge, rupturing the rings, destroying the aluminum piston and creating general havoc. Over 400 whp at full torque pulling 3400 lb is rupture point for the rods. People use catch cans as a mitigation but many (ATS FORUMS) don't catch much, others catch a lot. there are strength kits. All I got. No to dissuade but why not a 2.7 v6 ford eco?

09-04-2019, 08:03 PM	#5
D K Drives: C5 Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: Denver Posts: 141	2.7 IS a nice engine, but the draw for the ltg is tat its an inline 4 which makes the throttle body on the side for piping. plus many others of course.... The other thing is the weight also. And the fact that its boosted, means you can have different maps for different situations.

09-04-2019, 08:27 PM	#6
wookwook Drives: 18 Camaro LS M6 Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: NH Posts: 698	yes - of course. had a yearning for a MGBw\ Engine build for a while there. talk about tight lies. no depth clearance. But- this camaro is a lot of fun! No disappointments so far. I would imagine you should come across rebuildable LTGs or pulls in the not too distant future.

09-04-2019, 08:41 PM	#7
wookwook Drives: 18 Camaro LS M6 Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: NH Posts: 698	If i had to guess and I am, I am guessing hydro locking a piston would be caused by a blown head gasket. over boosting at the previously mentioned stress level and catastrophic failure due to coolant in the cylinder. in this camaro these are the highest tuned factory version LTG that GM runs, per a wiki post somewhere I noticed. hope that helps. Then your into speed shops and new internals. Send pics of the miata when its done. ;>.

09-04-2019, 10:04 PM	#8
D K Drives: C5 Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: Denver Posts: 141	OF course! There are quite a few lfx builds but I just came across the ltg platform a little while ago and looking at the block - closed deck from the factory = some level of competent engineering at least... Then looking at the 0-60 threads here and extrapolating a car with over 1000lbs less, and all of a sudden Im scratching my head (am I missing something here?). I have found that dealing with factory boosted motors is A LOT easier/reliable than adding boost to a N/A motor from factory. And if I was to go down the LFX road, I would have to boost it anyway (although I would use a sc) - it would make sense to start with a boosted lump. So who knows? if it pans out, it could be a decent car that surprises a lot of people. I really appreciate your responses and if you guys can think of anything additional, I'm all ears.

09-05-2019, 11:51 AM	#9
protovack Drives: 2019 2LT 2.0T M6 Riverside Blue Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: WA Posts: 847	An LTG miata sounds insane, really excited to hear how this goes.

09-05-2019, 04:47 PM	#11
wookwook Drives: 18 Camaro LS M6 Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: NH Posts: 698	Agreed- I would think if the same failures where happening on the gen 6 LTG there would definitely be more chatter.

09-07-2019, 01:07 AM	#12
D K Drives: C5 Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: Denver Posts: 141	Whats the aftermarket for these like? Are there internals and such available? Im not seeing much, but Im probably looking int the wrong place. Another question...are transmissions swappable? Does the ltg have the same bolt pattern as the lfx and/or the ls??

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09-08-2019, 09:41 AM	#14
wookwook Drives: 18 Camaro LS M6 Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: NH Posts: 698	Cooper you seem to be the main contributor as far as reliability questions i appreciate that. Maybe this falls under a different topic but since were on the subject.. With M6 theres a TR 3160 spec page out there that gives 310 ftlb for manual first gear, and on the gm performance guide they show 325 ftlb for the trans. I charted 315 ftlbs on stock on first - well mostly stock bolted up no CAI nor Catless - run with no ecu mods no RC. Do you think that the car is calibrated that closely really? Which might be better said, like If one put on slicks and hooked really well at the strip it almost looks like its possible to destroy the trans without even trying... Then adding a tune? These run records with 4 and 5 sec 0-60 with M-6 has me scratching my head. I know its a rambling question but I know a few of us are considering tuning - ok so I have an email tune I have been studying in comps to the baseline, and it has a 75 ftlb lift over the stock in trq mgmt spec. Anyone care to offer opines for M-6 as a the weak point? never mind pistons, this is far from that level of load. THoughts?