[RealG]

Originally Posted by chris227

Really?
I work in the marine industry and the economy is the best it's been in years.
Boat sales are through the roof as well as Boatlifts which is what i sell. we have been having insane sales the last 3 yrs. The economy is great right now.

Agree, blaming the economy for the Camaros failure is such fake news. The industry I work in is booming as well.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by 90503

Most Cadillac model's sales numbers are way below Camaro's, yet Cadillac marches on unphased and constantly upgraded. I think worries about Camaro sales numbers are way overblown.
Not sure of any significance, but Cadillac seems to be letting out future plans somewhat....(From the press release):

Cadillac Sets Stage for Growth

"Cadillac delivered record calendar year-to-date crossover deliveries, with the XT5 showing year-over-year sales growth in 14 of the last 15 months.

To build on this momentum, Cadillac will launch the XT4, its next all-new crossover, this fall. After that, Cadillac will introduce a new model roughly once every six months through the end of 2021.

GM has already begun installing new tooling and equipment at its Lansing Grand River Assembly plant to build the next generation of Cadillac luxury cars, part of a more than half-billion-dollar manufacturing investment in the United States over the last two years to grow the brand’s sales in North America. In addition, GM has confirmed that its Spring Hill Assembly plant will build another new Cadillac crossover."

Kinda my point. Cadillac is saying SOMETHING is coming. One every six months. But they haven’t told you WHAT is coming. They reference the XT4, which was officially announced several months ago, but nothing else, because they haven’t been announced / confirmed.

[wjones14]

Originally Posted by camaro5

Mine was $15,500 - checked every box.

'

Okay, so a top of the line Camaro Z28 in 1984, with all options was $15,500. In today's dollars, that's ~$37,460. You can't even buy a 2018 1SS with zero options at that price.

https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl


According to the build and price configuration Chevy website, a bare bones 2018 Camaro 1SS is $37,995. Move up to a blue 2018 Camaro 2SS with 1LE option, and you're at $50,390. No sunroof, no PDR, no navigation, etc.

The Camaro pricing has increased much more than inflation. Maybe that's true for all cars in general - I don't know.

[gpskinzhut]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeROC

No doubt. The IROC was hot back then and the top of the line. The new for 1987 350 TPI "from the Corvette" was a big deal. It's not quite apples to apples, but I'd love to see a ~$40k brand new 6th gen ZL1 or the 5th gen Z/28 was nowhere near $40k when new (it was $75k when new in 2014).

I still miss my IROC. It's the only car I regret selling.

The quality of most technology is infinitely better than 30 years ago. Computers, consumer electronics, cars, etc. That's to be expected.

Nah The L98 wasn’t that big of a deal, especially since you couldn’t get one with a manual trans. The 305 LB9 wasn’t that much worse. The other difference is the build options were more granular. You could get into an IROC stripped down with a shitbox LO3. You don’t have those kinds of options now. A 1SS is as stripped down as you can go.

The Z28 I thought was grossly overpriced but then again it was also a purpose built car unlike previous Z28’s.

The ‘69 ZL1 was what, $7500 or so which is well over 50k at today’s dollar. A 40k ZL1 is nonsense. But hey it’s good to have a dream.

[lt4camaro]

Originally Posted by wjones14

Okay, so a top of the line Camaro Z28 in 1984, with all options was $15,500. In today's dollars, that's ~$37,460. You can't even buy a 2018 1SS with zero options at that price.

https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl


According to the build and price configuration Chevy website, a bare bones 2018 Camaro 1SS is $37,995. Move up to a blue 2018 Camaro 2SS with 1LE option, and you're at $50,390. No sunroof, no PDR, no navigation, etc.

The Camaro pricing has increased much more than inflation. Maybe that's true for all cars in general - I don't know.

The point is you can buy a bare bones 2018 SS for 37k+, but Camaro does need to restructure there prices and content to at least match Mustang. Chevy always was a price leader, it must continue.

[chris227]

Originally Posted by wjones14

Okay, so a top of the line Camaro Z28 in 1984, with all options was $15,500. In today's dollars, that's ~$37,460. You can't even buy a 2018 1SS with zero options at that price.

https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl


According to the build and price configuration Chevy website, a bare bones 2018 Camaro 1SS is $37,995. Move up to a blue 2018 Camaro 2SS with 1LE option, and you're at $50,390. No sunroof, no PDR, no navigation, etc.

The Camaro pricing has increased much more than inflation. Maybe that's true for all cars in general - I don't know.

A 1984 Camaro Z28 is outclassed in all aspects by a 20116-18 4 banger. Not even in the same ballpark. A fully loaded 1984 Z28 has less options then a base model 16-18. Not a correct comparison. advancements in technology skew the price. That was then this is now. The car is different in every aspect.

[Gen6_1Le]

Originally Posted by RealG

was going to reply with a cohesive answer but then noticed your location and realized your education level. “Buck up or shut up” lol

At least my level of education got me to a point where i don't have to go on forums crying that a car is out of my price range and they should make cheaper ones . I thought McDonalds paid better out your way .

[IMadeYouReadThis]

Originally Posted by kttxz06

Don't know what u smoking but my income is up damn nearly 500% so. Speak for yourself.

don't be a blowhard man I'm sure that is quite far not the average

[Glen e]

The real true test of whether the Camaro makes that or not will be to see when dealers start turning down the product en masse… At that point Chevrolet is going to have to make a decision. Because right now, although sales are down 36%, they're really not to GM because they "sold" the cars to the dealers. It all depends how choked the dealers are with Camaros, and when they start turning down camaro product across the country, that's when it will hit the proverbial fan....... and the GM Board Will have to decide what to do long-term.

[Gen6_1Le]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeROC

That certainly seems to be Chevy's attitude. But 2 facts still remain:

1. The Camaro is not selling well, not even as well as its competition in this market.
2. The American middle class is being outpriced.

We aren't discussing the Camaro competing with Honda Civic sales numbers here. We're talking "will the Camaro survive in the future?" numbers.

Yes the Camaro will survive ,and it don't have to outsell Dodge or Ford to do it. I really feel the Camaro is ahead of the curve when it comes to pricing .Just look how much you have to spend on a Mustang to actually compete with the SS 1LE just to fall short. Dodge one day will be forced to change there platform and build a new Challenger and i will bet the cost will go up a good but . I think Camaro has a great future , even as well as Challengers are selling Dodge may just hang it up and not build a new generation.
The American middle class is being outpriced on a lot of things not just Camaros .

[torqueaddict]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Mustang and Challenger are selling, so I doubt this is the issue.

Here’s the thing....on THIS forum most are gagging on the SS front fascia and proclaiming the 2019 refresh a failure. The appearance of the LS and LT versions is (in my opinion) MUCH improved over 2016-18 and could very well result in improved base and mid-trim sales. We here tend to get caught up in SS, 1LE, and ZL1 compared to Mustang GT, GT350, and the upcoming(?) GT500 and Hellcat and Demon / Redeye. All these vehicles are the tip of the spear. Most Mustangs I see are 2.3T. Most Challengers I see are V6 or 5.7L. And I live in an area where people work for the companies and get full discounts, so I probably see more GTs, Scat Packs, and Hellcats than most people on this forum. Yet, base and mid level Stangs and Challengers far outnumber those.

GM NEVER lays out its entire portfolio at the same time EXCEPT at major auto shows, and then not until the last piece is being announced. It is not unusual to confirm that the ATS and CTS are going away without confirming if either will be replaced and if so, with what. CT5 will be positioned to replace CTS and the top end of ATS. There will be an as yet unannounced vehicle smaller than CT5 and all indications are it will also be off Alpha / Alpha 2. That is NOT confirmed and I am not the one to confirm it.

A lot of truth here. GM is targeting a much narrower slice of the pie than Ford is targeting with Mustang and far narrower than FCA is targeting with Challenger. That is why both are doing much better on the base and mid-level trims.

I have no problem accepting the performance for functionality trade offs made for my V8 convertible. I have other options in my driveway. But if I still had small kids that I needed to take places or needed to rely on my car for family trips, I’d be in a Challenger or Charger (that’s a lie....CTS / CT5. Just trying to keep the discussion “in-segment”). People who buy the car for DESIGN and PRICE are less likely to accept the trunk space, rear seat room and visibility compromises than those of us who want the most performance for the money. Did you buy your Camaro to be a “ME” car or a “WE” car? Mine is definitely a ME car, so the trunk space / rear seat space were a non-issue. My wife is scared to drive it because it’s more powerful than our last Corvette, and that car made her nervous. People who need a WE car are probably best suited with a Challenger / Charger, maybe to a lesser degree in a Mustang, but still an improvement over a Camaro.



Quoted for truth. Well said 13vertss.

Very well put! You articulated what many here are thinking so well.

People are comparing the Camaro to the Mustang and Challenger, but what makes the Camaro special is the fact that it's NOT a Mustang or Challenger carbon copy. It appeals to a certain (narrow) segment who are willing to sacrifice certain needs for performance. This is not to say there isn't room for improvement, but it does what it was designed to do very well.

If I had to constantly compare this car to the competition wishing it shared the same features, then this wouldn't be the car for me.

[rocket403]

What upsets me as a GM enthusiast and the reason I'm more of a Dodge guy now is GM is not making anything for people that have to buy a car as one person put it for "WE" and not "ME" so if GM has nothing to offer then they will not get my money. I can always get an older GM car that fits my wants and needs.

[waterman]

Arm yourself with the facts.
Consider information from those in or retired from the industry (Thanks for your insights Martinjlm).
Corvette is down too, no panic over there.

Some free advice; buy, don't sell in a down market.

General Motors U.S. Sales Increase 4.6 Percent To 758,376 Units In Second Quarter 2018
http://gmauthority.com/blog/2018/07/...ted-states-q2/

[MEDISIN]

Kudos to Challenger, growing in retail sales and ATP's. Mustang leading the pack in retail volume but at a lower average price point. Camaro's not all doom and gloom.

Retail ATP's 2018 (JDPin)
Camaro: $40,814
Challenger: $38,241
Mustang: $34,798

Retail Sales 2018
Mustang: 29,548
Challenger: 25,783
Camaro: 24,809

Funny all three are generating about the same retail revenue YTD but achieving it differently. Despite the comments about "expensive muscle cars" they are on track to produce $2B in revenue for each respective automaker this year. How much profit they yield is anybody's guess.

Happy 4th everyone