[JBones81]

The other scary thing is how ridiculously fast cars are nowadays. In my Camaro or RS3, I can hit 80mph like it's nothing - or easy triple digits on the freeway before I realize it. My first car was a 95v6 mustang. I used to street race everyone, and we could both enjoy 20 seconds of racing before we hit 75mph

Seriously, though - it's way too dangerous to race around in these cars in areas where there is any cross traffic. Don't put innocent people at risk

[DaveC113]

Originally Posted by JBones81

The other scary thing is how ridiculously fast cars are nowadays. In my Camaro or RS3, I can hit 80mph like it's nothing - or easy triple digits on the freeway before I realize it. My first car was a 95v6 mustang. I used to street race everyone, and we could both enjoy 20 seconds of racing before we hit 75mph

Seriously, though - it's way too dangerous to race around in these cars in areas where there is any cross traffic. Don't put innocent people at risk

Yup. It sucks to see stuff like this but hopefully seeing it will put speed in perspective.

Not only are the cars fast but they are so stable and have so much grip going fast feels safer that it is. Fast cars don't make human reaction times faster.

[rontammy0]

People will not take others advice or opinion on whats right and wrong here. Those preaching about speed and racing to others need to that sermon to the church....while the racers and guys that enjoy fast cars and a little fun can go to the track. Lets save the driving lectures for our kids.

[rontammy0]

Originally Posted by motorhead

Going over the speed limit is illegal too. Im sure you have never done that in you're 2SS Camaro. A lot of self righteous people in this thread with high powered cars. Im sure you all only save it for the track. 100% Bull Shit.

Agreed. And sorry to break hearts here but street racing is going on as I post.This thread won't make a difference ...just like the other dozen or so threads that were posted before it on the same subject. Relax fellas... sit back and admire some muscle. And for you bone racks....you can look at your car.

[HYPER1LE]

While I do enjoy my Camaro, one thing I won’t donis street race. My current career field is crash reconstruction. First, I have been driving as part of one job or another since I was 18. I’m now 48. The thing about racing on highways or streets or excessive speeding for that matter is that although a driver feels 100% confident in their ability to control a car no matter the speed, what none of us drivers can control is the unexpected decisions and actions of other drivers. Everything is fine...until its not. I don’t have enough information about this crash just from the video. But, I can tell you what goes into a crash reconstruction. I’ll try not to be boring. So, as you can see in the video, the police are doing what is called forensic mapping of the scene. This will give them distances the two vehicles traveled to their uncontrolled stops. Skid mark measurements will be taken and the coefficient of drag of the roadway. They will also measure crush damage to the vehicles for more data values. Then, they will take all of this data, input it in scientific formulas to calculate the minimum speed each of the two cars was traveling at impact. If that minimum calculated speed is of a value that in CA is defined as reckless driving, they will acceptable speed data admissible in court. Another part of the investigation will be time and distance. They will determine if there is any criminal liability on the part of the driver turning left. That is to say, given her approach speed and time it would have taken to enter, travel through, and clear the lane of travel of the oncoming Camaro that should not have resulted in a collision with the Camaro traveling no more than the maximum posted speed limit. If not, despite speed in excess of the posted speed on the Camaro, she, too, could be charged. Or, charged instead of the Camaro driver if the Camaro is calculated at no more than the maximum posted speed limit. All this is the old school and still used today way of crash reconstruction. But, thanks to technology in modern day cars since the early 2000’s, there is the Bosch Crash Data Retieval (CDR) System. The police will have this system and get a search warrant to download the crash data locked in the airbag control module (ACM). This data typically gives pre-impact speeds and other data points in 1/2 sec intervals anywhere from 2 1/2 sec to as much as 25 seconds pre-airbag deployment (basically time of impact). Other data points include whether or not the brake switch was activated (illuminates brake lights due to foot pressure on brake pedal). Also, seatbelt use, yes or no. Seat occupied, yes or no. Cruise control, in or off. Throttle position. Engine RPM’s. ABS activated, yes or no. Crash impact pulse in milliseconds of time (delta-v) which is change in velocity. The US had mandated that all new cars these days for sale in the US have this technology now. Since the inception, more and more cars became supported until now, today, they all must be. So, what she taken from tragedies like this, and I’ve seen my fair share, is to, seriously, take it to the track. The actions of other drivers sharing the road with you, me, us cannot be controlled no matter “how good or experienced a driver.” Like I said, it’s all good...until it’s not. One final point, disabling or tampering with a US mandated safety system or emission system on a vehicle manufactured (required) to have it is a no-no for operation on public roadways. I know, I know. I’m just putting that out there. Stay safe, stay smart!

[Camaro_QC]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

So you're basically saying you never reach a speed above 50 km/h in a town or 100 km/h on a divided highway. Ever. In a Camaro.

Never 5 over the limit. In km/h

Speeding doesn't mean to go 1 over the limit, it means going at a speed that is dangerous compared to the speed limit.

And there's a world between what people think it is safe for them to drive and what is actually safe. People always think they are better driver than they are, so yeah, 80 in a 50 zone is safe for them.. but not in reality.

But that's my opinion. You do not need to agree.

I have some co-workers that don't agree with me and still think they are good people. They are just taking risk that I think is not worth to take.

[90503]

You can't be racing or speeding, and then claim someone turned illegally in front of you, so therefore nothing is your fault. You must exercise due diligence even if someone pulls a bone-head move on you. An illegal turn or whatever by someone else doesn't mean you don't have to try and avoid a collision....Sometimes accidents are unavoidable...but if you are speeding or racing, that excuse goes away very quickly..

Good luck. No one ever was exonerated by saying, "Yeah, I was safely street racing, but this car turned in front of me....."....etc., etc....

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by Michael2000

So how about if someone is driving 100 mph, 150 mph, 200 mph?

At what speed do we finally say the oncoming drivers will be unable to determine the time it will take for the cars coming the other way to reach them? How about at night?

Take that crap to the track.

I'd say let us try to keep this discussion civilized. No idea what "crap" you are talking about specifically to me---driving 100/150/200 mph in residential areas, or maybe street racing? None of these apply. I understand the emotions involved, and I obviously also do not condone street racing, or drive at excessive speed in areas where pedestrians may decide to cross the street at any moment, as it's extremely dangerous.

As to the accident, however, the driver at fault is the one that turned into oncoming traffic whose speed was obviously nowhere near the incalculably high levels you mention. In addition, there was a white car passing through the intersection just before the driver took the left turn, and that in itself was a dangerous move on her part, she left almost no room between her car and the white one. If that driver had braked even a bit, her car would have hit its rear.

I prefer wait for an extra long opening in traffic before making such a left turn when I have kids in my cars, and especially when someone else's kid is also in there.

All that said, the video definitely does look like street racing to me, but the speeds involved we cannot judge from the footage as it has no time stamps. HYPER1LE gave an exhaustive and professional description of what is going to happen next. Lower speeds would have mitigated the impact, and (as I already said) the worst and most painful part is that those innocent girls are suffering for the mistakes of the adults involved.

[Deputy Dog]

Originally Posted by rontammy0

People will not take others advice or opinion on whats right and wrong here. Those preaching about speed and racing to others need to that sermon to the church....while the racers and guys that enjoy fast cars and a little fun can go to the track. Lets save the driving lectures for our kids.

Street Racing has been going on since the beginning of time and will continue till the end of time. Street racing was a popular sport even it the 1700's when young men had unsanctioned street racing with horses

[rontammy0]

Originally Posted by Deputy Dog

Street Racing has been going on since the beginning of time and will continue till the end of time. Street racing was a popular sport even it the 1700's when young men had unsanctioned street racing with horses

Funny and true......but some think they can change things.....but it hasnt happened yet.

[Wyzz Kydd]

Originally Posted by HYPER1LE

While I do enjoy my Camaro, one thing I won’t donis street race. My current career field is crash reconstruction. First, I have been driving as part of one job or another since I was 18. I’m now 48. The thing about racing on highways or streets or excessive speeding for that matter is that although a driver feels 100% confident in their ability to control a car no matter the speed, what none of us drivers can control is the unexpected decisions and actions of other drivers. Everything is fine...until its not. I don’t have enough information about this crash just from the video. But, I can tell you what goes into a crash reconstruction. I’ll try not to be boring. So, as you can see in the video, the police are doing what is called forensic mapping of the scene. This will give them distances the two vehicles traveled to their uncontrolled stops. Skid mark measurements will be taken and the coefficient of drag of the roadway. They will also measure crush damage to the vehicles for more data values. Then, they will take all of this data, input it in scientific formulas to calculate the minimum speed each of the two cars was traveling at impact. If that minimum calculated speed is of a value that in CA is defined as reckless driving, they will acceptable speed data admissible in court. Another part of the investigation will be time and distance. They will determine if there is any criminal liability on the part of the driver turning left. That is to say, given her approach speed and time it would have taken to enter, travel through, and clear the lane of travel of the oncoming Camaro that should not have resulted in a collision with the Camaro traveling no more than the maximum posted speed limit. If not, despite speed in excess of the posted speed on the Camaro, she, too, could be charged. Or, charged instead of the Camaro driver if the Camaro is calculated at no more than the maximum posted speed limit. All this is the old school and still used today way of crash reconstruction. But, thanks to technology in modern day cars since the early 2000’s, there is the Bosch Crash Data Retieval (CDR) System. The police will have this system and get a search warrant to download the crash data locked in the airbag control module (ACM). This data typically gives pre-impact speeds and other data points in 1/2 sec intervals anywhere from 2 1/2 sec to as much as 25 seconds pre-airbag deployment (basically time of impact). Other data points include whether or not the brake switch was activated (illuminates brake lights due to foot pressure on brake pedal). Also, seatbelt use, yes or no. Seat occupied, yes or no. Cruise control, in or off. Throttle position. Engine RPM’s. ABS activated, yes or no. Crash impact pulse in milliseconds of time (delta-v) which is change in velocity. The US had mandated that all new cars these days for sale in the US have this technology now. Since the inception, more and more cars became supported until now, today, they all must be. So, what she taken from tragedies like this, and I’ve seen my fair share, is to, seriously, take it to the track. The actions of other drivers sharing the road with you, me, us cannot be controlled no matter “how good or experienced a driver.” Like I said, it’s all good...until it’s not. One final point, disabling or tampering with a US mandated safety system or emission system on a vehicle manufactured (required) to have it is a no-no for operation on public roadways. I know, I know. I’m just putting that out there. Stay safe, stay smart!

Great analysis. Based on your experience, the video and photos of the damage how fast would you estimate they were going? I’m no expert but I’m guessing around 70 mph.

[keon718nyc]

https://ktla.com/2018/12/14/one-driv...-racing-crash/


I guess a slight update to original post... The pictures of the poor little girls is just sad and makes me cringe. I just hope they recover and continue with their lives in good health. Camaro driver arrested for racing, so just maybe after investigation they have better facts and insight then what we can all guess on speeding or not.

[Frisbey]

What an unfortunate tragedy
Adults doing stupid things and 2 little girls paying the price.

ALL the adults made bad choices!

If the gal hadn’t made a really fast left turn, no accident would have happened, the video shows VERY POOR JUDGEMENT on her part. She holds significant responsibility for this accident.

The Camaro and mustang drivers going to fast also have responsibility, if they weren’t going too fast, likely no accident, but someone turning in front of you can sometimes be unavoidable even if you’re going UNDER the speed limit.

All 3 need to be held accountable!

And I pray the girls pull thru ok.

[AlphaDream]

Just want to say that it can be hard to judge the speed of oncoming traffic at night. If the racers were moving at an extreme speed then they would have been upon the woman much faster than she expected.

I figure the police probably know more about the situation than we do, and if they put out a reward for the other driver (who didn't even hit anyone) then they must have good evidence that he was street racing at excessive speeds.

Most of us speed responsibly, but there's always a few douchebags who speed recklessly, and these street racers are such douchebags.