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Old 12-24-2018, 02:19 PM   #29
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And Chevy is gonna steal Ford's thunder, lol!! With the C8 coming out, if it offers crazy performance (which it will) and can be had without markups (which it will) then this will be an alternative for people who refuse to pay markups on the GT500. I can see the standard C8 offering enough shattering performance to keep up with the GT500 while still having full options. And then we'll see another Z06 and ZR1 on top of that along with the 7th Gen Camaro. I predict a win for Chevy in the 7th Gen just like the 6th Gen!!

https://www.carscoops.com/2018/12/20...BCsIY1vlyIXF1Q
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Old 12-24-2018, 03:16 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by BlaqWhole View Post
And Chevy is gonna steal Ford's thunder, lol!! With the C8 coming out, if it offers crazy performance (which it will) and can be had without markups (which it will) then this will be an alternative for people who refuse to pay markups on the GT500. I can see the standard C8 offering enough shattering performance to keep up with the GT500 while still having full options. And then we'll see another Z06 and ZR1 on top of that along with the 7th Gen Camaro. I predict a win for Chevy in the 7th Gen just like the 6th Gen!!

https://www.carscoops.com/2018/12/20...BCsIY1vlyIXF1Q
Except I think the C8 is still a couple years away -- at least for a Z06/ZR1 version.

GT500 will have it's day. Ford is pretty good at the numbers game. The car will be absolutely excellent for bragging rights which is what 90% of consumers in this particular market care about (IMO).

You know, if you ask 1000 people: (Not based on any facts)
900 of them have heard of a Mustang and Camaro.
750 of them know what a "Shelby" GTxxx is.
50 (probably less) know what a ZL1 is, let alone a ZL1 1LE.

Chevy is pretty stupid with their "monikers". Too many BS three letter codes nobody cares. Most people you talk to only know "Camaro" and won't hear anything beyond that whether it be RS, SS, RS 1LE, SS 1LE, ZL1, ZL1 1LE... wtf.

My point is, most people buy the GT500 because they know what it is.

I think thats a good thing. I prefer to have the car that you don't see every day.
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Old 12-24-2018, 03:26 PM   #31
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Except I think the C8 is still a couple years away -- at least for a Z06/ZR1 version.

GT500 will have it's day. Ford is pretty good at the numbers game. The car will be absolutely excellent for bragging rights which is what 90% of consumers in this particular market care about (IMO).

You know, if you ask 1000 people: (Not based on any facts)
900 of them have heard of a Mustang and Camaro.
750 of them know what a "Shelby" GTxxx is.
50 (probably less) know what a ZL1 is, let alone a ZL1 1LE.

Chevy is pretty stupid with their "monikers". Too many BS three letter codes nobody cares. Most people you talk to only know "Camaro" and won't hear anything beyond that whether it be RS, SS, RS 1LE, SS 1LE, ZL1, ZL1 1LE... wtf.

My point is, most people buy the GT500 because they know what it is.

I think thats a good thing. I prefer to have the car that you don't see every day.
I don’t necessarily disagree but GT350 or GT500 isn’t any more distinctive than ZL1, 1LE, ...

People know what a GTxxx is because of a chicken farmer’s success in making them perform on a road course for two years and 50 years worth of marketing.
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Old 12-24-2018, 05:03 PM   #32
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I donít necessarily disagree but GT350 or GT500 isnít any more distinctive than ZL1, 1LE, ...

People know what a GTxxx is because of a chicken farmerís success in making them perform on a road course for two years and 50 years worth of marketing.
I agree, I don't think it's anything special about the Shelby other than it's story.
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Old 12-24-2018, 09:30 PM   #33
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The quote of the year right there. ^^^

The Alpha SS embarrassed the GT. In manual and auto forms, they weren’t even close. Three model years into Alpha Camaro, a substantial redesign of the GT resulted in a drivers race edge for the A10, the M6 still trailing by three to four tenths, a failed PP1 and a PP2 that can hang for one lap.

The Alpha ZL1 matches a Hellcat at the strip and beats a GT350R on a road course with no drama, grand touring comfort. Ford GT500 delayed ...and delayed and will arrive in the ZL1’s fourth year ...a lifetime in automotive cycles

The ZL1 1LE is in a class by itself. ...as is the SS 1LE

I doubt anyone on team Camaro will feel embarrassed.
Where does the Alpha ZL1 match the Hellcat. The fastest test reviews put the ZL1 at 11:30, and Hellcat Charger at 11:00s., widebody version 10:90s.
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Old 12-25-2018, 06:27 AM   #34
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I've never seen a test where the Hellcat did an 11 flat. Link?
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Old 12-25-2018, 09:49 AM   #35
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Where does the Alpha ZL1 match the Hellcat. The fastest test reviews put the ZL1 at 11:30, and Hellcat Charger at 11:00s., widebody version 10:90s.
IIRC, you’re a big Head 2 Head guy ...right?

Motor Trend Head to Head: ZL1 vs Hellcat Widebody
ZL1: 0-60: 3.5 seconds, 1/4 mile: 11.5 @ 124 mph
Hellcat Widebody- 0-60: 3.9 seconds, 1/4 mile: 11.9 @ 125.1 mph.

https://www.hellcat.org/threads/moto...debody.214907/
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Old 12-25-2018, 10:50 AM   #36
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IIRC, youíre a big Head 2 Head guy ...right?

Motor Trend Head to Head: ZL1 vs Hellcat Widebody
ZL1: 0-60: 3.5 seconds, 1/4 mile: 11.5 @ 124 mph
Hellcat Widebody- 0-60: 3.9 seconds, 1/4 mile: 11.9 @ 125.1 mph.

https://www.hellcat.org/threads/moto...debody.214907/
Yeah, I just recently watched that episode. I was a bit surprised that the ZL1 pulled away from the Hellcat despite the Hellcat not peeling out or sliding at launch. Everything else was pretty much as expected.
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Old 12-25-2018, 10:59 AM   #37
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IIRC, youíre a big Head 2 Head guy ...right?

Motor Trend Head to Head: ZL1 vs Hellcat Widebody
ZL1: 0-60: 3.5 seconds, 1/4 mile: 11.5 @ 124 mph
Hellcat Widebody- 0-60: 3.9 seconds, 1/4 mile: 11.9 @ 125.1 mph.

https://www.hellcat.org/threads/moto...debody.214907/
Uh oh. Now the Mustang guys will be saying the GT is faster than a Hellcat.
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Old 12-25-2018, 12:33 PM   #38
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Uh oh. Now the Mustang guys will be saying the GT is faster than a Hellcat.
not true, Motor Trend went 12.1@118.8 in the GT so it is .2 slower than a WB HC stock.
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Old 12-25-2018, 10:17 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newmoon View Post
Where does the Alpha ZL1 match the Hellcat. The fastest test reviews put the ZL1 at 11:30, and Hellcat Charger at 11:00s., widebody version 10:90s.
Forget magazines. I agree here. I have raced a number of Hellcats with my A10 ZL1. Both stock and lost every time except for once with DRs where the HC blew an axle.

I have seen them run slower times (auto to auto) than I was running when not lined up with me. But I never beat one. Maybe 10 times I lost even with a better RT. All good drivers though which is a big variable in the 1/4.

IMO Chevy torque management holds the ZL1 back. The ZL1 has a better power to weight ratio, even when considering HCs are underrated.
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Old 12-26-2018, 05:54 AM   #40
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Forget magazines. I agree here. I have raced a number of Hellcats with my A10 ZL1. Both stock and lost every time except for once with DRs where the HC blew an axle.

I have seen them run slower times (auto to auto) than I was running when not lined up with me. But I never beat one. Maybe 10 times I lost even with a better RT. All good drivers though which is a big variable in the 1/4.

IMO Chevy torque management holds the ZL1 back. The ZL1 has a better power to weight ratio, even when considering HCs are underrated.
Were those Hellcats on the tires Dodge delivered?

Tire is holding the Dodge back. Should a ZL1 with its torque management tuned out be considered stock?
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Old 12-26-2018, 11:19 AM   #41
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Were those Hellcats on the tires Dodge delivered?

Tire is holding the Dodge back. Should a ZL1 with its torque management tuned out be considered stock?
Yes on stock tires. No on the TM. I am talking about Hellcat Auto drivers with seat time.

I think the new GT500 stock will also usually best the stock auto ZL1. Maybe even the GT500 manual.
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Old 12-26-2018, 11:37 AM   #42
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The hellcat is faster stock no question. Typical trap speed for a ZL1 is 124-126. Hellcats are usually 126-128. Ill take watching hundreds of runs over the last two years. Over one Motor trend article any day.
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