Hopefully this turns around soon - Page 3

Artryan · 10-07-2019, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chevyfan4life

X2

I don't think the term "midlife crisis" actually implies a crisis. IMHO, I've always thought it basically means a way in which a person realizes they are getting older and does something to try and recapture their youth. I don't really see it as a negative connotation towards someone.

People buy cars for many different reasons, but my point is that the Camaro in its current form is a very impractical car for MOST people. That is directly linked to poor sales. It doesn't mean the car won't work for certain individuals, it just means that it doesn't appeal to the masses for several different reasons. Sports cars in general just don't anymore.

Bluecyclone · 10-07-2019, 05:55 AM

My Ford sales mgr. say's Mustang or sportscar's in general are only 5% of the sales, at least until Ford only sells mustang's as is purported by some in the business. Crisis make me calm and my pony car does the same. I am 59 an holdin, holdin every chicane that I cam. Lol.

AlphaCamaro7 · 10-07-2019, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artryan

While I'm not a fan of Chrysler products, the Challenger is the best of the bunch in terms of being a usable car. The Camaro has basically evolved into a very specific category that is not practical for most buyers. While the Challenger can be used as a family car, the Camaro has basically become a 2 seat midlife crisis car.

This is not going to change unless the Camaro changes. The possibility of that looks to be slim to none.

I guess i had a Midlife Crisis at 24

Petrol Head · 10-07-2019, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artryan

People buy cars for many different reasons, but my point is that the Camaro in its current form is a very impractical car for MOST people. That is directly linked to poor sales. It doesn't mean the car won't work for certain individuals, it just means that it doesn't appeal to the masses for several different reasons. Sports cars in general just don't anymore.

And that's where the Challenger is killing Camaro in sales - it actually IS a little bit practical for the masses. People of normal stature can get into and fit in the back seat, and the trunk is usable. Camaro used to be that way too - the 1st-4th gens all had a decent trunk/hatchback and the rear seats were actually inhabitable. It wasn't Cadillac spacious but certainly much more spacious than the 5th-6th gens.

MrChrisLS3 · 10-07-2019, 06:45 AM

The Horsepower rebates for that quarter had everything to do with the spike in sales. Ranging from 2950 for the base up to 7970 for the Red Eye. Even without that, a base Challenger can be had in the mid $20K's. Then they offer a mid level R/T with the 5.7L Hemi with 375 hp. It will not run with a V8 Camaro or Mustang, but is fun to drive with a nice V8 rumble and priced for about what you can get a V6 version of the other two. Dodge has, and will continue to hold on to the old school 'muscle car' theme. It's the Mopar DNA.

When the Camaro switched to the Alpha platform, it became a true 'sports car'. Performance levels dangerously close to Corvette makes it a great choice for those longing for the Corvette but not quite there financially. The flip side though, is specing out a 2ss, you can get to the point where it made more sense to just get a base Corvette. It will be interesting to see how the new Corvette will effect this, as well as the Camaro LT1.

Overall, technically speaking, the Camaro is the best of the 'pony' cars from top to bottom. However, I can see how, for many, it's not as comfortable as a daily driver in terms of interior layout and practicality. I think the Challenger holds the lead there, for people looking for a two door 'sporty' car.

Red Chief · 10-07-2019, 08:13 AM

Mustang sales are a mystery to me. The refresh is so ugly and pedestrian it would be my last choice if I didn’t have a horse in this race. I guess it pays to be the default sports coupe in the mind of the average car shopper.

chain777 · 10-07-2019, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaqwert6

Hopefully this turns around soon

What the hell for? In my immediate circle of friends there are over a half dozen various Challengers and almost as many mustangs and Chargers. Forget about 'Vettes. I've already owned one Challenger and 2 Mustangs in the last few years.

Who wants to be surrounded be a literal sea of the same cars? I wish SSs were more exclusive to be honest.

The way things are going, your wishes will probably come true. Soon the Camaro will be so exclusive it will be non-existent.

GearheadSS · 10-07-2019, 09:48 AM

They're throwing massive rebates at the Challenger. That's how they were able to do this. When you see that GM has almost no incentives on Camaro, it's no surprise that it's dragging up the rear in sales.

*radz28* · 10-07-2019, 06:11 PM

For $hit's sake stop this bickering and act like adults. Stay on topic or find somewhere else to talk crap.

Number 3 · 10-07-2019, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluecyclone

My Ford sales mgr. say's Mustang or sportscar's in general are only 5% of the sales, at least until Ford only sells mustang's as is purported by some in the business. Crisis make me calm and my pony car does the same. I am 59 an holdin, holdin every chicane that I cam. Lol.

I think it's much less than 5%.

In a 14,000,000 unit year, that would be 700,000 sport's cars. Camaro, Mustang and Challenger combined are not even 200,000. Add Corvette, Miata, Fiat 124, and the Toyota/Subaru twins and I don't think you get close to 5%.

Either way, it's a small fraction of the overall market.

c4racer · 10-07-2019, 09:37 PM

You might want to include the 911 and cayman / Boxster in that number.
Actually only about 15K. Not much there either.

COmaro · 10-07-2019, 10:59 PM

It is mind boggling to me how the ancient Challenger has been able to overtake both the Mustang and Camaro in sales. Kudos to Fiat for knowing how to market a car, and knowing how to make a car that appeals to more of a mass market than Mustang and Camaro. Hell, they even make an AWD Challenger.

Having grown up in the 60's and 70's when two door sedans and coupes were a big part of the market, it is scary how low sales of all cars have gone, let alone the few two doors left. Wrap your heads around this: in 1979, Pontiac sold 117,000 Trans Ams. Not Firebirds, just Trans Ams! All Firebirds combined were over 200,000, more than all Challenger/Mustang/Camaro combined today. Then you had Camaro, Mustang, and a whole raft of other 2-door sport coupes like Monte Carlo, Grand Prix, Thunderbird, Dodge Magnum, Pontiac LeMans, Chevy Malibu/Laguna, Olds Cutlass, Buick Regal, etc. And Corvette, of course. Hell, GM sold 54,000 1979 Corvettes, more than they will sell Camaros in 2019. (GM sold 35,000 Vettes in 2019).

Chevy, Ford and Fiat decided several years ago to go upscale with the Camaro, Mustang, and Challenger which is 180 degrees from the original cars, which were designed to be inexpensive and available to young people. Now the Camaro, Mustang, and Challenger appeal mostly to people like myself who have fond memories of the originals. What GM, Ford, or Chrysler vehicle for 2020 appeals to someone under 30, and is not a pickup truck or a Jeep? They don't have one.

Meanwhile, Honda is killing it with the Civic, the Civic Si, and the Civic Type R. They sell 30,000 Civics a MONTH. They provide young people with an inexpensive entry point from which they can trade up. Once they age out of a Civic, they have the Accord or several SUVs or Acura. This *used* to be the US car maker's strategy, give the kid a really cool car to start, and keep them as they got older. If they got away from Chevy, they had the other GM brands to hook them.

At least Camaro is outselling the Hyundai Veloster.

Joe Remi · 10-07-2019, 11:25 PM

FCA has been brilliant with bringing every possible name and color back from the days of the original Challenger and Charger, then advertising the crap out of them. It doesn't hurt that both cars - especially Challenger - look great.

Roostie · 10-07-2019, 11:37 PM

COmaro, those are amazing sales figures from decades ago, when the car-driving population was lower, people were buying many more muscle cars.

As for Honda, the Civic sells well and has a lot going for it, but Honda's top seller is the CR-V. If you've been in a Type R, you'd know it's incredibly roomy and practical with the hatch and folding rear seat, compared to any muscle car. However, as a company, Honda and Acura have had a pretty steep sales decline recently. September sales are down a lot from a year prior.

10-07-2019, 05:55 AM	#30
Bluecyclone Drives: 2014 Cyclone mustang Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Port Lavaca,Tx. Posts: 355 View My Garage	Coastal bend Mustangs of Texas My Ford sales mgr. say's Mustang or sportscar's in general are only 5% of the sales, at least until Ford only sells mustang's as is purported by some in the business. Crisis make me calm and my pony car does the same. I am 59 an holdin, holdin every chicane that I cam. Lol. Attached Images __________________ 2014 Cyclone/Select Shift/"/Sold 2016 ruby red GT w/3.55:1/resonator delete X- pipe/UPR catch can/Airaid "tube"W/AEM/J&M/BigWorm/BMR /SVE /ZL1addons/Redline/Steeda/BG fluids/

10-07-2019, 06:11 PM	#37
radz28 Petro-sexual Drives: Ultra-Grin Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Crazy Coast Posts: 15,201 View My Garage	For $hit's sake stop this bickering and act like adults. Stay on topic or find somewhere else to talk crap. __________________ '20 ZL1 Black "Fury" A10, PDR, Exposed CF Extractor Magnuson Magnum DI TVS2650R // RFBG // Soler 103 // TooHighPSI Port Injection // THPSI Billet Lid // FF // Katech Drop-In // PLM Heat Exchanger // ZLE Cradle bushings // BMR Chassis-Suspension Stuff // aFe Bars // Diode Dynamics LEDs // ACS Composites Guards // CF Dash // Aeroforce // tint // other stuffs

10-07-2019, 06:45 AM	#33
MrChrisLS3 Drives: 2018 1SS M6 Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Houston Posts: 2,617	The Horsepower rebates for that quarter had everything to do with the spike in sales. Ranging from 2950 for the base up to 7970 for the Red Eye. Even without that, a base Challenger can be had in the mid $20K's. Then they offer a mid level R/T with the 5.7L Hemi with 375 hp. It will not run with a V8 Camaro or Mustang, but is fun to drive with a nice V8 rumble and priced for about what you can get a V6 version of the other two. Dodge has, and will continue to hold on to the old school 'muscle car' theme. It's the Mopar DNA. When the Camaro switched to the Alpha platform, it became a true 'sports car'. Performance levels dangerously close to Corvette makes it a great choice for those longing for the Corvette but not quite there financially. The flip side though, is specing out a 2ss, you can get to the point where it made more sense to just get a base Corvette. It will be interesting to see how the new Corvette will effect this, as well as the Camaro LT1. Overall, technically speaking, the Camaro is the best of the 'pony' cars from top to bottom. However, I can see how, for many, it's not as comfortable as a daily driver in terms of interior layout and practicality. I think the Challenger holds the lead there, for people looking for a two door 'sporty' car.

10-07-2019, 08:13 AM	#34
Red Chief Drives: 2020 LT1 Black Join Date: May 2013 Location: MO Posts: 562	Mustang sales are a mystery to me. The refresh is so ugly and pedestrian it would be my last choice if I didn’t have a horse in this race. I guess it pays to be the default sports coupe in the mind of the average car shopper.

10-07-2019, 09:48 AM	#36
GearheadSS Drives: 23 LT1/22 Colorado TB/69 Chevelle Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Greenville, Tx Posts: 4,970 View My Garage	They're throwing massive rebates at the Challenger. That's how they were able to do this. When you see that GM has almost no incentives on Camaro, it's no surprise that it's dragging up the rear in sales.

10-07-2019, 09:37 PM	#39
c4racer Drives: 2016 SS Convertible Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: California Posts: 1,108	You might want to include the 911 and cayman / Boxster in that number. Actually only about 15K. Not much there either.

10-07-2019, 10:59 PM	#40
COmaro Drives: Many Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Colorado Posts: 220	It is mind boggling to me how the ancient Challenger has been able to overtake both the Mustang and Camaro in sales. Kudos to Fiat for knowing how to market a car, and knowing how to make a car that appeals to more of a mass market than Mustang and Camaro. Hell, they even make an AWD Challenger. Having grown up in the 60's and 70's when two door sedans and coupes were a big part of the market, it is scary how low sales of all cars have gone, let alone the few two doors left. Wrap your heads around this: in 1979, Pontiac sold 117,000 Trans Ams. Not Firebirds, just Trans Ams! All Firebirds combined were over 200,000, more than all Challenger/Mustang/Camaro combined today. Then you had Camaro, Mustang, and a whole raft of other 2-door sport coupes like Monte Carlo, Grand Prix, Thunderbird, Dodge Magnum, Pontiac LeMans, Chevy Malibu/Laguna, Olds Cutlass, Buick Regal, etc. And Corvette, of course. Hell, GM sold 54,000 1979 Corvettes, more than they will sell Camaros in 2019. (GM sold 35,000 Vettes in 2019). Chevy, Ford and Fiat decided several years ago to go upscale with the Camaro, Mustang, and Challenger which is 180 degrees from the original cars, which were designed to be inexpensive and available to young people. Now the Camaro, Mustang, and Challenger appeal mostly to people like myself who have fond memories of the originals. What GM, Ford, or Chrysler vehicle for 2020 appeals to someone under 30, and is not a pickup truck or a Jeep? They don't have one. Meanwhile, Honda is killing it with the Civic, the Civic Si, and the Civic Type R. They sell 30,000 Civics a MONTH. They provide young people with an inexpensive entry point from which they can trade up. Once they age out of a Civic, they have the Accord or several SUVs or Acura. This used to be the US car maker's strategy, give the kid a really cool car to start, and keep them as they got older. If they got away from Chevy, they had the other GM brands to hook them. At least Camaro is outselling the Hyundai Veloster.

10-07-2019, 11:25 PM	#41
Joe Remi Drives: '17 Impala V6 LT Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Novato CA. Posts: 323	FCA has been brilliant with bringing every possible name and color back from the days of the original Challenger and Charger, then advertising the crap out of them. It doesn't hurt that both cars - especially Challenger - look great.

10-07-2019, 11:37 PM	#42
Roostie all it takes is cash Drives: 2018 LS V6 1LE; E350 wagon; Model3 Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: San Diego Posts: 372	COmaro, those are amazing sales figures from decades ago, when the car-driving population was lower, people were buying many more muscle cars. As for Honda, the Civic sells well and has a lot going for it, but Honda's top seller is the CR-V. If you've been in a Type R, you'd know it's incredibly roomy and practical with the hatch and folding rear seat, compared to any muscle car. However, as a company, Honda and Acura have had a pretty steep sales decline recently. September sales are down a lot from a year prior.

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