[MT-SS1LE]

That Supra is flat out hideous. The only car in the same category that is uglier would be the BMW M2. I saw that video and other videos from that dude's channel. It seems like just random owners racing drag racing their own cars. How do we know the skill level of these drivers? Cause in nearly every published test that I have seen the Camaro beats the Supra in 0-60 and 1/4 mile times.

[FarmerFran]

I have a Camaro

[s346k]

Originally Posted by Keko

I bought my camaro because it has personality

i find this humorous, because that is exactly why i sold mine.

the camaros are good cars, but they are not the be all end all.

just like the 4th gen cars, if it weren't for the drivetrain - they would get 0 attention. no one is buying them bc the interior is so nice. no one is buying them bc gm really supports the car and keeps it on the cutting edge of technology. no one is buying them bc they are versatile and useful.

i watched countless camaros go down on the street to supras, mustangs, and just about every other car you can imagine. watched another countless number get embarrassed at the track. there are too many variables in racing to compare cars so close.

[funked1]

Originally Posted by PizzzzzaForPresident

Yes

That car costs $102k though.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by s346k

i find this humorous, because that is exactly why i sold mine.

the camaros are good cars, but they are not the be all end all.

just like the 4th gen cars, if it weren't for the drivetrain - they would get 0 attention. no one is buying them bc the interior is so nice. no one is buying them bc gm really supports the car and keeps it on the cutting edge of technology. no one is buying them bc they are versatile and useful.

i watched countless camaros go down on the street to supras, mustangs, and just about every other car you can imagine. watched another countless number get embarrassed at the track. there are too many variables in racing to compare cars so close.

...and shame on GM for all of that. Good thing the drivetrain, suspension and chassis are surreal.

[funked1]

Originally Posted by Christian1LE

Not a good comparison. You're comparing an AWD vs a RWD in a 0-60. 0-60 especially now is such a poor metric to go by if you're comparing performance. O.n a track the M4 is barely better than an SS1LE and miles behind the ZL1 1LE.

Good point. Even the AWD M4 Comp. is only faster than a ZL1 from a launch. Look at the 5-60 times.

[Puddin]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

...and shame on GM for all of that. Good thing the drivetrain, suspension and chassis are surreal.

I'm with you on the suspension and chassis but the drivetrain not so much. It's still a pushrod engine nothing real special about it. Don't even get me started on the whole 8spd debacle.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by Puddin

I'm with you on the suspension and chassis but the drivetrain not so much. It's still a pushrod engine nothing real special about it. Don't even get me started on the whole 8spd debacle.

The first production DOHC engine dates back to 1910, while the first production pushrod engine went to market in 1904, hardly a significant difference. These engine designs have a multitude of parameters and properties, one is better in certain aspects, the other is better at others, there is no simple answer to which one is "better". Being more popular as DOHC is today is not necessarily a mark of inherent quality or superiority, it's simply easier to build tiny 1-1.5 liter DOHCs and slap small turbos on them for an adequte, cheap solution to typical low end vehicle requirements.

The fact that the LT1/LT4 are high displacement, low/midrange torque happy, crossplane crank engines with a glorious sound is special enough for me against the sea of cheap DOHC implementations with anemic low end torque. Granted, they rev about 1k higher than the pushrod engine, but you pay for it down low, and it's kind of difficult to properly use a 8000 rpm rev limit on the street on a regular basis without becoming a douche and a cop target.

That said, the LT6 in the new Corvette is a much, much better DOHC "rendering", but it isn't exactly cheap, and its sound is personally less attractive to me, it's a Ferrari wannabe noise. The Voodoo in the GT350 is another great DOHC with absolutely proper sound thanks to its quirky crank and header configuration, alas, it got discontinued very quickly.

So my point is there is no black and white here, any DOHC snobbery is disingenuous.

Also, engine design has nothing to with the mess GM made for itself with the problems the 8L45/8L90 initially had, and yeah, let's not get into that in this thread.

[6spdhyperblue]

Originally Posted by Puddin

I'm with you on the suspension and chassis but the drivetrain not so much. It's still a pushrod engine nothing real special about it. Don't even get me started on the whole 8spd debacle.

Yeah those outdated gm pushrod motors forcing rule changes and liter limits for 24hr of Le Mans

[Puddin]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

The first production DOHC engine dates back to 1910, while the first production pushrod engine went to market in 1904, hardly a significant difference. These engine designs have a multitude of parameters and properties, one is better in certain aspects, the other is better at others, there is no simple answer to which one is "better". Being more popular as DOHC is today is not necessarily a mark of inherent quality or superiority, it's simply easier to build tiny 1-1.5 liter DOHCs and slap small turbos on them for an adequte, cheap solution to typical low end vehicle requirements.

The fact that the LT1/LT4 are high displacement, low/midrange torque happy, crossplane crank engines with a glorious sound is special enough for me against the sea of cheap DOHC implementations with anemic low end torque. Granted, they rev about 1k higher than the pushrod engine, but you pay for it down low, and it's kind of difficult to properly use a 8000 rpm rev limit on the street on a regular basis without becoming a douche and a cop target.

That said, the LT6 in the new Corvette is a much, much better DOHC "rendering", but it isn't exactly cheap, and its sound is personally less attractive to me, it's a Ferrari wannabe noise. The Voodoo in the GT350 is another great DOHC with absolutely proper sound thanks to its quirky crank and header configuration, alas, it got discontinued very quickly.

So my point is there is no black and white here, any DOHC snobbery is disingenuous.

Also, engine design has nothing to with the mess GM made for itself with the problems the 8L45/8L90 initially had, and yeah, let's not get into that in this thread.

I didn't say one was better than the other but the gen v Lt is not "surreal" to me like you stated in your previous post. Transmission counts as drivetrain which is why I brought up the 8spd debacle but I agree that has its own thread.

[Puddin]

Originally Posted by 6spdhyperblue

Yeah those outdated gm pushrod motors forcing rule changes and liter limits for 24hr of Le Mans

I don't follow any racing on TV as it's quite boring and numb to watch so as far as the Le mans stuff I have no clue who uses what or what the rules even are. All I know is there are 4 classes that run and that the new C8R is dohc flat plane.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by Puddin

I didn't say one was better than the other but the gen v Lt is not "surreal" to me like you stated in your previous post. Transmission counts as drivetrain which is why I brought up the 8spd debacle but I agree that has its own thread.

Fair enough, the trans is part of the drivetrain
Truth to be told, my specific A8 unit has been fantastic from day 1, which makes me a bit less "jumpy" when it comes to the known issues. I had researched the trans before buying the car, then did everything I could for shudder prevention from day 1, and now that it's tuned it's even better, so my unit is at least (maybe not others, I do realize that) as good as any other 8-speed transmission. I love performance shift mode, for example, it anticipates my moves pretty well and the trans shifts better than I could in a 6-speed manual.

I drove a BMW 340i back to back with my car, before the latest round of mods, and it was tangibly worse. Tests showed the SS 1LE to be on par with the M4 (of that time, not 2023 model). Sure, I know the LT1/LT4 aren't the best engines ever to exist, I'm not stupid or a blind fanboy, but they are pretty amazing for the price, punching well above their weight. (In case you couldn't tell, I'm not a big fan of cars made by ze Germanz, they're too precise and sterile).

[s346k]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

...and shame on GM for all of that. Good thing the drivetrain, suspension and chassis are surreal.

define surreal.

because the chassis and power train both are spot on with ford and thankfully mopar can't build a car that weighs less than 4500 lb or the other 2 would be embarrassed at the drag strip. ford & chevy would still own the road course.

[TheEnthusiast]

Originally Posted by Kreinmc

A lot of bias here. I have some real world experience as I had a 2022 2SS 1LE M6 and still currently have a 2021 M40i X3 suv (same motor as the Supra). The M40i ran 12.7@107 at the dragstrip. The 2SS ran a 13.1@109. That's right, couldn't even break 110 barrier even with no lift shift. Both vehicles run in Phoenix, Az. The gearing is just terrible in the M6 SS, so I think that plays a significant role as well as the fact that the M40i is significantly underrated. I completely expect a lighter Supra with the same motor to beat the Camaro.

Immediately unloaded the SS as I couldn't stand it being slower than my wife's family hauler. LOL. Now have a 2022 ZLE A10 instead. Beast!

Interesting, my best with my 19 1SS 6MT was 12.6 @111 with a 1.960ft on the friggin stock run flats. Florida 2000+DA and 90+ degrees outside.