[dantemcc]

Prayers sent your way brotha. I hope God can make a change in your life for the better

[BMR Sales]

I used to Like & Post in this Thread, but this has become quite sad!

Joe M, please get over it, so we can get back on track. This is a NFL Thread and all you post about is one Play that NOBODY cares about.

How about them Bucs?

[Joe M 2012 2SS]

Here are your words....

Originally Posted by dantemcc

Listen to Julios press conference. EVEN HE SAID HE SLUPPED coming out of his cut. He wasn't knocked down or pushed down. So please STHU.

Here is the post game interview. Tell me at what point Jones says he slipped? Please do. He didn't. Your post is a lie. Instead of admitting it, you call me names.....curse me....and say I'm mad and butthurt. I'm not mad at all. I'm just stating what the truth is.

Originally Posted by dantemcc

Prayers sent your way brotha. I hope God can make a change in your life for the better

I hope you can one day be honest and tell the truth....instead of resorting to name calling and cursing to defend your lies. Pray for yourself. I'm doing just fine.

[Joe M 2012 2SS]

Originally Posted by BMR Sales

I used to Like & Post in this Thread, but this has become quite sad!

Joe M, please get over it, so we can get back on track. This is a NFL Thread and all you post about is one Play that NOBODY cares about.

How about them Bucs?

Go ahead and post what you want. I'm not stopping you. I'm just representing the truth....some people on here don't like the truth.

That aside....I think the Bucs should stay with Jameis Winston...he played his butt off at the end of the season even though they didn't win the games.

[dantemcc]

Holly crap. Just found this on Facebook. Think ima have to buy one of these. These look friggin great. Can't be the champ without a ring!

[dantemcc]

Originally Posted by BMR Sales

I used to Like & Post in this Thread, but this has become quite sad!

Joe M, please get over it, so we can get back on track. This is a NFL Thread and all you post about is one Play that NOBODY cares about.

How about them Bucs?

Truth be told, the NFC south should be one of the best divisions in football. With all the talent each team has, three of which have legit starting quarterbacks, Jameis has yet to show that on a consistent basis, but is still good enough to win with. That division should be what the NFC east was for most of the late 2000s where almost everyone said it was the best division in football.

[Steve Dallas]

Originally Posted by Joe M 2012 2SS

I haven't stated anything that is opinion. What I have done is shown the video of the play countless numbers of time which 100% proves Mills jumped on Jones back...and after that he was on the ground.

I'm not interested in opinion. I am interested in facts. What actually happened, and what the actual rules are...not your made up version of them, not what someone on the internet said....I am interested in the actual factual truth....nothing else.

There is nothing made up about my "version" of this. You have your opinion, I have mine. It also seems quite a few other people share my unbiased opinion, and no-one shares yours.

Originally Posted by Joe M 2012 2SS

I have repeatedly posted the actual rules...straight from the NFL website...not made up interpretations like you have. The rule for Defensive Holding applies regardless of weather or not the QB is in the pocket. It's the rule...plain and simple....not your made up version.

You have posted a couple of rules, yes. Those are rules all of us already know. You haven't posted all the relevant rules, nor how the referee's and rules committee interpret them. You are clinging to a couple of rules, while totally ignoring others. Everything I have said about contact after a Receiver or DB tangle legs or otherwise trip is true and a fact as well. Everything I said about a QB being out of the pocket and the rules of how it affects receivers was true as well. I explained how this year, some DB's are taking advantage of a QB being out of the pocket to lay a hit on a receiver LEGALLY. Frankly, I think that the rules committee might be reviewing that rule and how some DB's have taken advantage of it in the off season.

Originally Posted by Joe M 2012 2SS

I have not stopped or asked anyone to discuss anything they wish to in this thread....this is an absolute LIE.

Actually, you have posted more here on a single subject flooding the boards with your nonsense over and over...has affected how other topics can be discussed. I play a part in responding as well, I suppose. Not a lie.

Originally Posted by Joe M 2012 2SS

I did not have posts removed. I had 1 post removed ONE... SINGULAR...NOT PLURAL.....another LIE.

You know, I never tried to count up how many posts were removed. I saw at least one removed, though. Again not a lie. Your logic here is actually quite amusing.

Originally Posted by Joe M 2012 2SS

If you don't want to be called out for lies you tell. THEN DONT TELL THEM!

What lies?

Originally Posted by Joe M 2012 2SS

I have been called names countless numbers of times...but you will never see me going and crying to a moderator like you did. Name calling doesn't change facts, and doesn't bother me at all.

Truer words from a troll have never been told. Calling people names from behind a keyboard sounds like common practice for you instead of respecting others on the boards.

Originally Posted by Joe M 2012 2SS

EVERY SINGLE PERSON I HAVE SHOWN THE VIDEO TO IN PERSON, CAN SEE MILLS JUMPS ON JONES BACK. 100% FACT.

Frankly, who cares. It wasn't pass interference, and it was a good no-call.

Every imaginary friend? Just as imaginary as that sprint out route you were talking about?

Originally Posted by Joe M 2012 2SS

Have a nice day.

I never called one person a liar who didn't tell one. If the shoe fits....WEAR IT.

You haven't proven I'm a liar, nor have you proven your point about the pass interference. What you continue to prove is that you aren't very good at making a point.

[Joe M 2012 2SS]

Originally Posted by Steve Dallas

There is nothing made up about my "version" of this. You have your opinion, I have mine. It also seems quite a few other people share my unbiased opinion, and no-one shares yours.



You have posted a couple of rules, yes. Those are rules all of us already know. You haven't posted all the relevant rules, nor how the referee's and rules committee interpret them. You are clinging to a couple of rules, while totally ignoring others. Everything I have said about contact after a Receiver or DB tangle legs or otherwise trip is true and a fact as well. Everything I said about a QB being out of the pocket and the rules of how it affects receivers was true as well. I explained how this year, some DB's are taking advantage of a QB being out of the pocket to lay a hit on a receiver LEGALLY. Frankly, I think that the rules committee might be reviewing that rule and how some DB's have taken advantage of it in the off season.



Actually, you have posted more here on a single subject flooding the boards with your nonsense over and over...has affected how other topics can be discussed. I play a part in responding as well, I suppose. Not a lie.



You know, I never tried to count up how many posts were removed. I saw at least one removed, though. Again not a lie. Your logic here is actually quite amusing.



What lies?



Truer words from a troll have never been told. Calling people names from behind a keyboard sounds like common practice for you instead of respecting others on the boards.



Frankly, who cares. It wasn't pass interference, and it was a good no-call.

Every imaginary friend? Just as imaginary as that sprint out route you were talking about?



You haven't proven I'm a liar, nor have you proven your point about the pass interference. What you continue to prove is that you aren't very good at making a point.

No where in this entire bunch of gibberish is any proof from the NFL rulebook shown to substantiate your "opinion". Or any video to prove Jones slipped...because none exist......the actual video shows Jones doesn't go down until Mills jumps on his back...I posted it...multiple times.

I've provided the proof. Video proof and NFL actual rule proof...directly from the NFL website.......to back up what I've stated.

You knew exactly which post was deleted because you were the one that went crying to the moderator......after you sent me repeated PM's cursing like a sailor in them......your gonna report me because I said one curse word? What a joke......then you make a post claiming about how ethical you are? I'm laughing so hard I can't stand up!!!!!!

A troll provides no proof....you fit this description....I have provided the proof.....so who is the troll?

You cant provide any proof because their isn't any to prove what you say is true. All you can do is tell LIES.

And when you were busted in them your reply was " I need a better angle"!

I tell you what...get Dante to pray for you! LOL LOL LOL

[Steve Dallas]

Originally Posted by Joe M 2012 2SS

No where in this entire bunch of gibberish is any proof from the NFL rulebook shown to substantiate your "opinion". Or any video to prove Jones slipped...because none exist......the actual video shows Jones doesn't go down until Mills jumps on his back...I posted it...100x already.

So, you're choosing to ignore the rulebook and those rules that apply because...why? Here's the section on Pass Interference. I suggest you pay attention to this rule as it certainly applies to the play in question. Julio fell, any contact that occurred afterwards isn't pass interference. Mills made a solid cut, Jones fell when planting his right leg. Mills couldn't avoid going over Jones, it wasn't pass interference.:

Actions that do not constitute pass interference include but are not limited to:

(b) Inadvertent tangling of feet when both players are playing the ball or neither player is playing the ball.

As I said, Mills could have stayed on top of Jones after that and kept him pancaked with no consequences. He chose to get up and let Jones up.

From the NFL Rulebook:

Beyond the five-yard zone, if the player who receives the snap remains in the pocket with the ball, a defender cannot initiate contact with a receiver who is attempting to evade him. A defender may use his hands or arms only to defend or protect himself against impending contact caused by a receiver.

For the last couple of years, DB's have been taking advantage of this "loophole". If you are unaware of this, perhaps learning more about football and football rules is necessary on your part.

Do you want me to handhold you and point out the rules on contact that is allowed between receivers and DB's...that allow DB's to have hands on receivers as long as they aren't pushing? I didn't see enough pushing to warrant any kind of penalty.

Originally Posted by Joe M 2012 2SS

I've provided the proof. Video proof and NFL actual rule proven....to back up what I've stated.

You've provided video, however no proof. You've provided video that shows just what we're seeing. That Julio fell.

Originally Posted by Joe M 2012 2SS

You knew exactly which post was deleted because you were the one that went crying to the moderator......after you sent me repeated PM's cursing like a sailor in them......your gonna report me because I said one curse word? What a joke.

A troll provides no proof....you fit this description....I have provided the proof.

I didn't report you because of a curse word. I reported you because you were disrespectful to everyone else in this thread. Frankly, you're acting like a child, using the logic of one. Are you going to start saying LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE like one as well? You're halfway there already.

What proof? We keep telling you that those videos don't prove pass interference. At all. In fact, they reinforce our opinions that Julio fell.

Originally Posted by Joe M 2012 2SS

You cant provide any proof because their isn't any to prove what you say is true. All you can do is tell LIES.

Perhaps it is you that can't handle the truth. That Julio fell.

[Joe M 2012 2SS]

Originally Posted by Steve Dallas

So, you're choosing to ignore the rulebook and those rules that apply because...why? Here's the section on Pass Interference. I suggest you pay attention to this rule as it certainly applies to the play in question. Julio fell, any contact that occurred afterwards isn't pass interference. Mills made a solid cut, Jones fell when planting his right leg. Mills couldn't avoid going over Jones, it wasn't pass interference.:

Actions that do not constitute pass interference include but are not limited to:

(b) Inadvertent tangling of feet when both players are playing the ball or neither player is playing the ball.

As I said, Mills could have stayed on top of Jones after that and kept him pancaked with no consequences. He chose to get up and let Jones up.

From the NFL Rulebook:

Beyond the five-yard zone, if the player who receives the snap remains in the pocket with the ball, a defender cannot initiate contact with a receiver who is attempting to evade him. A defender may use his hands or arms only to defend or protect himself against impending contact caused by a receiver.

For the last couple of years, DB's have been taking advantage of this "loophole". If you are unaware of this, perhaps learning more about football and football rules is necessary on your part.

Do you want me to handhold you and point out the rules on contact that is allowed between receivers and DB's...that allow DB's to have hands on receivers as long as they aren't pushing? I didn't see enough pushing to warrant any kind of penalty.




You've provided video, however no proof. You've provided video that shows just what we're seeing. That Julio fell.





I didn't report you because of a curse word. I reported you because you were disrespectful to everyone else in this thread. Frankly, you're acting like a child, using the logic of one.

What proof? We keep telling you that those videos don't prove pass interference. At all. In fact, they reinforce our opinions that Julio fell.



Perhaps it is you that can't handle the truth. That Julio fell.

I posted the rule for DEFENSIVE HOLDING....where did I post PI? I didn't. When Mills jumps on his back and takes him to the ground that is DEFENSIVE HOLDING...that's exactly what I have stated.

I also posted the Rule for Illegal Contact..which also explains what incidental contact is.

I also posted that rule from the NFL rulebook that states the IC rule is out once the QB is out of the pocket......but the rule for Defensive Holding remains...in this particular play the pocket extends not 2 yards outside the right tackle...but 2 yards outside the tight end...because he stays back to pass block...also in the NFL rulebook.

Jones ended up on the ground because Mills jumped on his back....the video proves it.......when you take someone to the ground as a defender who does not posses the ball, unless the ball was "faked" to be handed off to him its DEFENSIVE HOLDING.

This rule you posted has NOTHING to do with PI...It's for ILLEGAL CONTACT.

Pass Interference cannot occur until AFTER the ball is thrown.

The ball was not thrown when Jones was on the ground...it was thrown AFTER.

Illegal contact did occur as well.

No point in even discussing that because you can't admit to the truth that shows Mills took Jones to the ground for DEFENSIVE HOLDING.

Since you don't know this rule I'll post it for you again to see.



Now that you know what it is ...here is the video again....I'm assuming you actually watched this video this time...which you probably did not.

Go to 8:35....turn sound off.....slow speed down to .25 or .5

Jones takes a little hop before beginning his route, he runs 6 yards into the end zone and then cuts right...Mills is all over his back and Jones starts to go down...but does not go completely down...he balances himself with his right hand and begins to run again...you can see both of his feet digging up turf.....at this point Mills lifts his left leg and jumps on top of Jones lower back...he also places both of his hands on Jones shoulders.....after this occurs is when Jones is completely on the ground......DEFENSIVE HOLDING.....Jones doesn't go down because he slipped or fell...he goes down because Mills jumped on him and made him go down.

I've already shown this to you before...your reply was "I need a better angle"...because you wont admit the truth.

[Steve Dallas]

You keep using that word "defensive holding". I do not think it means what you think it means.

We all know what defensive holding is. I didn't see any grabbing of the receiver. I did see hands put on the receiver, however that isn't holding. In fact, it's why I'd like to see another angle, because it MIGHT show a tug of the jersey. The video you provided shows nothing of that sort.

Mills didn't "jump on Jones back" as you seem to think. Julio fell. Mills effectively tripped over Jones when Jones was unable to make a clean cut and did end up on top of him temporarily. I don't dispute that. It was incidental though, because Jones FELL and Mills made a clean cut and tripped over a falling Jones. Incidental contact. Whether the ball was thrown or not doesn't matter. It was incidental contact because Jones lost his footing and Mills couldn't avoid him. Thus no pass interference, no defensive holding. No penalty call...as it should have been.

I've watched the video countless times already. I don't need to watch it again to see that Jones fell, and it was a good no-call.

I'm also still waiting for you to explain why you think Julio ran a Sprint Out route or a fade route. I'm really interested to hear about this...the logic that made you say that seems like it might explain why you think this should have been a penalty. I mean...if you don't know basic pass routes, why should we listen to you about anything else.

[Joe M 2012 2SS]

Originally Posted by Steve Dallas

You keep using that word "defensive holding". I do not think it means what you think it means.

We all know what defensive holding is. I didn't see any grabbing of the receiver. I did see hands put on the receiver, however that isn't holding. In fact, it's why I'd like to see another angle, because it MIGHT show a tug of the jersey. The video you provided shows nothing of that sort.

Mills didn't "jump on Jones back" as you seem to think. Julio fell. Mills effectively tripped over Jones when Jones was unable to make a clean cut and did end up on top of him temporarily. I don't dispute that. It was incidental though, because Jones FELL and Mills made a clean cut and tripped over a falling Jones. Incidental contact. Whether the ball was thrown or not doesn't matter. It was incidental contact because Jones lost his footing and Mills couldn't avoid him. Thus no pass interference, no defensive holding. No penalty call...as it should have been.

I've watched the video countless times already. I don't need to watch it again to see that Jones fell, and it was a good no-call.

I'm also still waiting for you to explain why you think Julio ran a Sprint Out route or a fade route. I'm really interested to hear about this...the logic that made you say that seems like it might explain why you think this should have been a penalty. I mean...if you don't know basic pass routes, why should we listen to you about anything else.

I knew you wouldn't watch either video before commenting again.

Julio said himself the play was a "sprint out to me" I posted the video where he said this as well. I'm not posting it again. What ridiculous thing are you going to say now...that the NFL rules change based upon what route the receiver ran?....it doesn't matter what route was run.....the rule for defensive holding doesn't change.

I posted the facts and the truth...Your disputing them without even watching them. Your mixing rules of PI and IC together...when what I have stated here so far is DH.

The rule for defensive holding says a defender cannot hold or tackle a player who does not possess the ball...that's the very first thing stated in the video from the NFL I posted for DH. Of course you don't know this because as you said ..you didn't watch the video.

I'm done wasting time with someone who makes comments and doesn't even look at the proof.

Keep posting your lies....I don't care anymore......The proof is in my last post.

Mr. Ethical you call yourself.....what an absolute JOKE!

Mills jumped on his back.....anyone who actually watches the video can see it.

Believe a lie if it makes you happy.

I don't need to say anything else...your comments prove you didn't even watch the video's before you comment. I've known this the whole time. Thanks for clarifying it to everyone else.

[Steve Dallas]

Originally Posted by Joe M 2012 2SS

I knew you wouldn't watch either video before commenting again.

I have watched the videos though. The first one is an explanation of defensive holding. None of those situations apply in this case though.

Originally Posted by Joe M 2012 2SS

Julio said himself the play was a "sprint out to me" I posted the video where he said this as well. I'm not posting it again.

Yeah, I saw that video too. Here's the thing. You initially called the pattern he ran a fade. Did he run a fade route like you said? Then you said this:

"Jones actually said he was running a "sprint out". Which is neither a fade or a curl....so both of us were wrong."

Actually you are wrong here. Do you not understand that he was referring to the play, not the route he was running? Seriously...we were talking about what a fade and curl was, and you come up with this explanation for the route he was running. Do you actually think he was running a sprint out or roll out? Since you seem incapable of understanding football terminology, let me explain. A sprint out or roll out is the action taken by the QB, rolling and sprinting to a sideline while looking for receivers downfield. It has absolutely zero to do with the receivers actions. The receiver can run a fade, a post, a curl, a slant or any of a variety of patterns from the route tree. None of those routes is called a "sprint out".

I mean...the fact that you think he ran a fade, then said what you did shows that you don't know a lot about football. To continue to argue it like you somehow weren't wrong is laughable.

Originally Posted by Joe M 2012 2SS

I posted the facts and the truth...Your disputing them without even watching them. Your mixing rules of PI and IC together...when what I have stated here so far is DH.

You're posting an opinion, just like I'm posting my opinion on how the rules are being interpreted. You're the only one saying this was a penalty though, while the rest of us saw tripping. Perhaps you're the one that's tripping here.

Originally Posted by Joe M 2012 2SS

The rule for defensive holding says a defender cannot hold or tackle a player who does not possess the ball...that's the very first thing stated in the video from the NFL I posted for DH.

We know what the rule for defensive holding is, and I think we've all said repeatedly that it doesn't apply in this case. There was no defensive holding. It was a good no-call.

Originally Posted by Joe M 2012 2SS

I'm done wasting time with someone who makes comments and doesn't even look at the proof.

What you're saying is that you think we are liars because we disagree with your opinion. Jones fell, everything after that was incidental. Simple as that.

Originally Posted by Joe M 2012 2SS

Keep posting lies....I don't care anymore......The proof is in my last post.

Mr. Ethical you call yourself.....what an absolute JOKE!

Mills jumped on his back.....anyone who actually watches the video can see it.

Believe a lie if it makes you happy.

If you're still deluded enough to think Jones was referring to the pattern he ran as a sprint out, you're deluded enough to think there was a penalty. Spend some time learning football terminology and rules, and less time with your phantom conspiracies where everyone is lying but you.

[Joe M 2012 2SS]

Originally Posted by Steve Dallas

I have watched the videos though. The first one is an explanation of defensive holding. None of those situations apply in this case though.



Yeah, I saw that video too. Here's the thing. You initially called the pattern he ran a fade. Did he run a fade route like you said? Then you said this:

"Jones actually said he was running a "sprint out". Which is neither a fade or a curl....so both of us were wrong."

Actually you are wrong here. Do you not understand that he was referring to the play, not the route he was running? Seriously...we were talking about what a fade and curl was, and you come up with this explanation for the route he was running. Do you actually think he was running a sprint out or roll out? Since you seem incapable of understanding football terminology, let me explain. A sprint out or roll out is the action taken by the QB, rolling and sprinting to a sideline while looking for receivers downfield. It has absolutely zero to do with the receivers actions. The receiver can run a fade, a post, a curl, a slant or any of a variety of patterns from the route tree. None of those routes is called a "sprint out".

I mean...the fact that you think he ran a fade, then said what you did shows that you don't know a lot about football. To continue to argue it like you somehow weren't wrong is laughable.



You're posting an opinion, just like I'm posting my opinion on how the rules are being interpreted. You're the only one saying this was a penalty though, while the rest of us saw tripping. Perhaps you're the one that's tripping here.



We know what the rule for defensive holding is, and I think we've all said repeatedly that it doesn't apply in this case. There was no defensive holding. It was a good no-call.



What you're saying is that you think we are liars because we disagree with your opinion. Jones fell, everything after that was incidental. Simple as that.



If you're still deluded enough to think Jones was referring to the pattern he ran as a sprint out, you're deluded enough to think there was a penalty. Spend some time learning football terminology and rules, and less time with your phantom conspiracies where everyone is lying but you.

You haven't watched anything.

What difference does it make what route he was running? That has nothing to do with the Rules or what occurred on the play.....since you don't understand this...the rules don't change because of what route the receiver ran..it makes No difference.

This statement by you is fishing for anything you can because your post saying you didn't even watch the video's proves your doing nothing but posting BS lies. You can't provide any proof, so you try to switch off to something that makes no difference whatsoever, in a feeble effort to support yourself.


I'm the only one who saw Mills jump on Jones back huh??? Shannon Sharpe saw it too....he says it in this video...will you watch it ...no...you will tell another lie.

You should go see a psychiatrist and be treated for being a pathological liar.