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Old 01-07-2019, 04:17 PM   #1
danhr
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Clarification on "bolt-ons" and "stock bottom end"

So I was having this discussion with another member of the 6th gen camaro community, and it spawned a few interesting interpretations. I was looking for others opinions and if we can come to a decision as a community (doubtful, but I'm hopeful).

First category would be bolt ons:
Pretty much anything on the outside of the motor is fair game, but the unclear area would be rocker arms. Back in the gen II lt1 days, rocker arms were considered a bolt on. Another interpretation would be "anything that touches oil."

The second category would be stock bottom end. What's fair game and what isnt? What parts are allowed to be changed and if so, what are they allowed to be changed to? An example of this would be rod bolts. If you guys have been in the GM community long enough, rod bolts were allowed in SBE LS1s, as they offered no performance gain, but reassurance. Or maybe bearings... if you spin a bearing, are you required to put OEM bearings back in, or can you do aftermarket?


Additional note: can we leave ecm, tcm, pcm, weight, drivetrain, chassis, platform out of the discussion?

Go!
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Old 01-08-2019, 12:17 PM   #2
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In the LT community rod bolts are out. If you jack up your motor in some way then replacing things like bearings, rings, and cylinder clean up are allowed with OEM parts.
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Old 01-08-2019, 05:56 PM   #3
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Why rule out rod bolts, or any fastener? If it was common practice before, and it appears that the SBE are going to be some high revving motors (I think one or two have made peak power at or above 7000 rpms now, and no one has ventured into the solid roller world). To me it seems logical to allow fasteners, that way it isnt a contest on who can afford to replace bearings the most, but who can come up with the fastest combination..... but that's just me.

I thought this would be a good winter topic but not many people are chiming in.
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Old 01-08-2019, 06:11 PM   #4
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rod bolt's are out imo. If it's not OEM stuff then it's not SBE.
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Old 01-08-2019, 06:18 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danhr View Post
Why rule out rod bolts, or any fastener? If it was common practice before, and it appears that the SBE are going to be some high revving motors (I think one or two have made peak power at or above 7000 rpms now, and no one has ventured into the solid roller world). To me it seems logical to allow fasteners, that way it isnt a contest on who can afford to replace bearings the most, but who can come up with the fastest combination..... but that's just me.

I thought this would be a good winter topic but not many people are chiming in.
I didn't say I agreed, but as King stated, if it isn't OEM it is out. The other main argument was that if it did strengthen the bottom end and did allow you to make more power, i.e. spin it higher safely then it was out.
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Old 01-08-2019, 06:29 PM   #6
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What about roller rockers? Considered an internal mod or bolt on?

Or another point brought up by someone, is modifying OEM components. Example: if you modify your heads (port/mill) then you are no longer considered bolt on, as you have done an internal modification.

But if you flycut a piston, which is modifying a component of the stock bottom end, you are still considered Stock bottom end.

Obviously the example is not to be taken at surface value and isnt to push for allowing ported heads in the bolt on category, nor to eliminate flycut pistons in the SBE category, but is just to show how contradictory some of the rules are, and that clarification might be beneficial
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Old 01-08-2019, 06:47 PM   #7
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Again, I concur but play the game by the rules set before me. I don't agree with not being able to mill heads on a bolt on motor nor do I agree with being able to fly cut pistons.
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Last edited by PRAY; 01-09-2019 at 03:53 AM.
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Old 01-09-2019, 12:30 AM   #8
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I don't even see why this is a discussion your just looking for excuses to be ranked higher honestly. Not saying I disagree but it's been a fairly cut and dry subject on what constitutes bolt-ons for some time now. I'm not a V8 expert and never will be I know the I4 guys have decided that bolt-ons are anything not involved taking the engine and heads apart as a rule of thumb. We never ruled out porting as long as it's an OEM port and not some aftermarket upgrade that was ported.
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Old 01-09-2019, 07:24 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil-Bee-NH View Post
I don't even see why this is a discussion your just looking for excuses to be ranked higher honestly. Not saying I disagree but it's been a fairly cut and dry subject on what constitutes bolt-ons for some time now. I'm not a V8 expert and never will be I know the I4 guys have decided that bolt-ons are anything not involved taking the engine and heads apart as a rule of thumb. We never ruled out porting as long as it's an OEM port and not some aftermarket upgrade that was ported.
Your right. I'm obviously instigating this conversation because I want to rank myself higher in a category I dont even fall under.

In fear that I will get an unfair advantage over my competitors by making interpretations public and not keeping them to myself, I will stop this thread immediately.
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Old 01-09-2019, 10:13 AM   #10
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Quote:
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Your right. I'm obviously instigating this conversation because I want to rank myself higher in a category I dont even fall under.

In fear that I will get an unfair advantage over my competitors by making interpretations public and not keeping them to myself, I will stop this thread immediately.
Has nothing to do with you getting an unfair advantage if it was there then others would do it to. Your just beating a dead horse for some unknown self enjoyment reason.
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Old 01-09-2019, 10:33 AM   #11
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I would also consider roller rockers a bolt on. But that's just me.
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Old 01-09-2019, 10:34 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil-Bee-NH View Post
Has nothing to do with you getting an unfair advantage if it was there then others would do it to. Your just beating a dead horse for some unknown self enjoyment reason.

Thank you for your contributions and insight.
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Old 01-09-2019, 12:55 PM   #13
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Here is where I stand:

Bolt ons are not including the internals. So headers, intake, TB, intake manifold, exhaust, pullys, etc. Those are bolt ons.

Superchargers and nitrous do not count as those would be power adders.

Cams and valvetrain are not bokt ons to me once that factory seal is cracked open.
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Old 01-10-2019, 10:59 AM   #14
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My 2 cents, if it goes ON the engine , exhaust, pulleys, intakes, tb, its a Bolton , anything that goes IN the engine, heads, rockers , cams is no longer a Bolton mod. Not sure who cares or why but enjoy your cars with boltons or whatever floats your boat.
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