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Old 10-26-2020, 10:20 PM   #57
wookwook
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DexnBlair View Post
Anyone know anything about RPM's Flex Fuel Conversion? It is on sale right now for $199

Also, messaged Coopers Camaro. Really liked him, knowledgeable dude. However, his flat fee is $500.00 and I have to purchase the HP tuner, which is $300, and then two credits which is $100. So that is $900. Where National Speed was going to charge $1000 for a Dyno Tune w/ the HP tuner included. Not as big a gap as I thought it was going to be but Cooper does offer unlimited revisions. Trifecta is showing $688 for their tune. So that is making the decision tougher.
Definitely do the zzp flex fuel kit. The RPM one has cheesy hose clamps if I recall. Keep in mind its a market with varying budget minded people and questionable car histories. The zzp kit has custom hose adapters that match OEM quality. I have it. Cooper is a Mod on FB 6th Gen Camaro 2.0 Turbo Talk I already answered this once today. But FB SUCKS b/c its the same ol same old noise. and the build histories are all here.

As far as the tuning cost. its $500 for M6 $ 700 for A8 for DIY plus your own skill; hptuners and all that. 900-to 1000 is the going rate for pro tuning. People have glowing reviews for Cooper. And with HP tuners you have your own file and just about anyone else (pro shops and knowledge enthusiasts) can help you if the worst possible thing happened without starting over again. You will own your tune file. For reliance and backup and tuning talk online as you can do your own logs. the others tend to be proprietary scaling with price point. It just depends what your level of involvement you want to do. You wont go wrong with HP tuner solution. Cooper will be able to take you beyond the base tune when you are ready and you can build as you go.
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NFG M6 2T
Mishimoto Hot side pie | ZZP Catted DP | KN Drop in | Borla - Sport Tour | Apex Arc 8 - square | Wookster Tuning+ | Flex Fuel

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Old 10-27-2020, 12:38 AM   #58
Evil-Bee-NH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DexnBlair View Post
Anyone know anything about RPM's Flex Fuel Conversion? It is on sale right now for $199

Also, messaged Coopers Camaro. Really liked him, knowledgeable dude. However, his flat fee is $500.00 and I have to purchase the HP tuner, which is $300, and then two credits which is $100. So that is $900. Where National Speed was going to charge $1000 for a Dyno Tune w/ the HP tuner included. Not as big a gap as I thought it was going to be but Cooper does offer unlimited revisions. Trifecta is showing $688 for their tune. So that is making the decision tougher.
Pretty much everything Wook said.

Pick-Up HPTuners and go with Cooper he'll get you in the right direction. A lot of these tuning shops have no clue how to tune these cars properly and some who figure it out get cocky and lazy like my tuner did and bad shit happens. Cooper is not like that he genuinely pays the **** attention. Cannot begin to count my tuners excuses of bad gas when it was him throwing to much fuel at it...

In all seriousness buy the HPTuners equipment use any laptop you have around the house needs to be windows based no chrome, linux or apple crap. You'll be able to do other important things if you have your own like clear codes and turn shit off that doesn't need to be on like if you buy the BNR/JacFab valve. Also if your friends get tuned you having the equipment can save rental fee's if they go with some online e-mail tuner. I make mine buy me taco bell for my trouble.

Also some other tid bits for you.

Catch Cans are good only if installed properly and you keep them drained. Your in NC get a check valve and plug it into the bottom of the can save yourself the hassle if you get the Mishi trying to unscrew that bitch everytime. Do your mods all at once there's nothing a tuner hates more then hey i bought this CAI and Downpipe... then a month later so i bought a throttle body and recirc. valve... then another month hey i bought an intercooler.
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Old 10-27-2020, 12:51 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by wookwook View Post
Nice. Me too! Ls or L99? Or a full on bracket car. Seen few I would jump on. Don't tell them I need a little gratification. Or I could just do a nitrous kit. Or just go for broke (engine) and have a sbc ready to go. That might be the ticket there.
L99 more then likely as it will be a weekend bolt-on racer may or may not get it tuned. But could very well go LS3 if it's at the right price would just need to learn stick all over again and it being a potential daily prolly still stick with the L99. After it's paid i'll likely drop a nitrous shot in it nothing huge just a simple 50 to 75 shot so i don't need to mess with internals.
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Old 10-27-2020, 02:41 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil-Bee-NH View Post
Pretty much everything Wook said.

Pick-Up HPTuners and go with Cooper he'll get you in the right direction. A lot of these tuning shops have no clue how to tune these cars properly and some who figure it out get cocky and lazy like my tuner did and bad shit happens. Cooper is not like that he genuinely pays the **** attention. Cannot begin to count my tuners excuses of bad gas when it was him throwing to much fuel at it...

In all seriousness buy the HPTuners equipment use any laptop you have around the house needs to be windows based no chrome, linux or apple crap. You'll be able to do other important things if you have your own like clear codes and turn shit off that doesn't need to be on like if you buy the BNR/JacFab valve. Also if your friends get tuned you having the equipment can save rental fee's if they go with some online e-mail tuner. I make mine buy me taco bell for my trouble.

Also some other tid bits for you.

Catch Cans are good only if installed properly and you keep them drained. Your in NC get a check valve and plug it into the bottom of the can save yourself the hassle if you get the Mishi trying to unscrew that bitch everytime. Do your mods all at once there's nothing a tuner hates more then hey i bought this CAI and Downpipe... then a month later so i bought a throttle body and recirc. valve... then another month hey i bought an intercooler.
Thanks, I appreciate the advice. I wish I could afford to do all the MODS at once. What I am going to do is start with the down pipe, throttle body, charge pipe, re-circulation valve, and E85 flexfuel conversion.

Eventually I will do the ZZP Big Wheel turbo, but it will be a while.
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Old 10-27-2020, 03:01 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by DexnBlair View Post
Thanks, I appreciate the advice. I wish I could afford to do all the MODS at once. What I am going to do is start with the down pipe, throttle body, charge pipe, re-circulation valve, and E85 flexfuel conversion.

Eventually I will do the ZZP Big Wheel turbo, but it will be a while.
Sounds like a Plan! personally I would skip the TB, and put it to towards the tune.
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NFG M6 2T
Mishimoto Hot side pie | ZZP Catted DP | KN Drop in | Borla - Sport Tour | Apex Arc 8 - square | Wookster Tuning+ | Flex Fuel

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Old 10-27-2020, 06:03 PM   #62
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Drives: 2016 Camaro 1LT 2.0t A8
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Was thinking about getting the ZZP big wheel turbo myself. Do you guys think the stock internals can handle it with what mods I already have? Also, what has been your experience with it wook; more top end power? More turbo lag?
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Current mods: GM performance catback exhaust - JMS PEDALMAX throttle controller - K&N Drop In Air Filter - ZZP Intake Tube - ZZP catted downpipe - ZZP Larger (67mm) throttle body - BNR recirculator valve - Mishimoto intercooler pipes - Mishimoto intercooler - PTP turbo blanket - ZZP flex fuel kit - ZZP big wheel turbo

Flex fuel tuned by ZZP

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Old 10-28-2020, 10:01 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by BlacknRed1990 View Post
Was thinking about getting the ZZP big wheel turbo myself. Do you guys think the stock internals can handle it with what mods I already have? Also, what has been your experience with it wook; more top end power? More turbo lag?
I am not worried about the power at all. All I have to compare for my recent work is HPtuners logs, so they are based on air and fuel and rpm. Its good for comparing and saving a ton on dyno runs and getting the read on improvements. I used a online calc with my weight vs times and its laying 325 hp "on average" down the 1/4 mile.

I did my MW kit soon after the BigWheel turbo and I didn't keep really good notes but I have some graphs for demonstration purposes.

Bottom line, is I would say there is no lag, and maybe even better response since the inducer size is still pretty small. That's the part of the compressor in the intake snout. Its only like 4mm bigger using recall, it may be 5mm. The exducer similarly is only a few mm bigger than stock. But the wheel I believe is physically lighter since its machined down quite a bit. The OEM compressor is cast and thick and heavier, I think. I didn't weigh it. But it throws up to 30 psi using the physical gauge.

To dial in the turbo It will need advanced tuning. Its probably "off the menu" for email tuners. You'll need a pro tuner to get the VE and VT adjusted.

Here is a kind of walk through to see the differences. The early days were rough. Mostly from Evil Bee bashing me about Race Chip hahaah

Keep in mind these are at different time periods and there is going to be biases in the charts due to DA. But for what I was looking at they were relevant for that project. Some of the cursors arn't square on the peak torque but it illustrates.


Early HP Tuners Log, No Tune.

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Early Days with just Bolt ons and I think it was racechipped.

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This is standard tune and some of the Bolt Ons.

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This is Bigwheel Tuned getting dialed in and before the WM kit.

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My current setup pretty much - MW is always running mild squirt on the road to save from refilling the tank. Different ramps and approaches.

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NFG M6 2T
Mishimoto Hot side pie | ZZP Catted DP | KN Drop in | Borla - Sport Tour | Apex Arc 8 - square | Wookster Tuning+ | Flex Fuel

Last PB
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Old 10-28-2020, 11:11 PM   #64
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Also I just wanted to say, its not as easy as it looks. When you start getting exotic with turbos and fuel there are potential pitfalls. No, there are pitfalls. At this point you are at the mercy of your tuner and their problem solving skills. Here is an example of one. For M6 on a track sprint rowing the gears. In my case delayed throttle response as we call it. Its not really throttle response but its the easiest way to say I have a dent in my peak curve during shifts. Took a bit of exploring the maps and tables, but things are solvable with determination.




This is "lazy TPS" in shift transient at high RPMS - over 6k.

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This is a positive response from a table edit I found after about 2 months of searching and testing.

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NFG M6 2T
Mishimoto Hot side pie | ZZP Catted DP | KN Drop in | Borla - Sport Tour | Apex Arc 8 - square | Wookster Tuning+ | Flex Fuel

Last PB
4.8, 13.2@106
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Old 10-29-2020, 01:23 AM   #65
BlacknRed1990
 
Drives: 2016 Camaro 1LT 2.0t A8
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Very interesting...I would think ZZP would already know how to tune for their own turbo, guess that'll be a question for Matt if I go down that route. Thanks for the descriptive replies as always.
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Current mods: GM performance catback exhaust - JMS PEDALMAX throttle controller - K&N Drop In Air Filter - ZZP Intake Tube - ZZP catted downpipe - ZZP Larger (67mm) throttle body - BNR recirculator valve - Mishimoto intercooler pipes - Mishimoto intercooler - PTP turbo blanket - ZZP flex fuel kit - ZZP big wheel turbo

Flex fuel tuned by ZZP

Tires: Firestone Firehawk Indy 500 245/40/20
Pirelli Winter Sottozero Serie II RunonFlat 245/50/18
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Old 10-29-2020, 01:31 AM   #66
Evil-Bee-NH
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Originally Posted by BlacknRed1990 View Post
Very interesting...I would think ZZP would already know how to tune for their own turbo, guess that'll be a question for Matt if I go down that route. Thanks for the descriptive replies as always.
ZZP can tune their "OWN" turbo as far as customers well not a great history.
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Old 10-29-2020, 09:54 AM   #67
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You guys can read my history. I don't go talking about the shops to any detail. They deal with a lot of different "personalities" and they are very, "conservative" at ZZP. I had Matt and he understood me and that I do my own tuning so they sent me the bare essentials to get going. It's what I was expecting. I'm not judging. But knowing what I know beyond the email tune you will be needing to do the readings and graphs and actual "tuning", there are You tubes on the details. Things can come out on the street that you wont see on the dyno. So a complete tune is dyno and street. I managed to do it on the street using I-95 on ramps.

There are other options out there. For me I just decided with a M6 it would be better matched to a smaller turbo. And this one definitely fit that requirement for me.

I was floating the idea of making a Tuners Corner blog but eh, not sure I'm That motivated.

Not sure much longer I will be keeping her, my psyche is some how morphing Covid-19 dread into Vette fever.
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NFG M6 2T
Mishimoto Hot side pie | ZZP Catted DP | KN Drop in | Borla - Sport Tour | Apex Arc 8 - square | Wookster Tuning+ | Flex Fuel

Last PB
4.8, 13.2@106
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Old 10-29-2020, 12:14 PM   #68
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After reading around this forum, as well as the feedback I have gotten on this thread, I think I am going to go with Coopers Camaro tune. Looking at the HP Tuner interface, I really like it and Cooper knows his stuff so I am most comfortable with him doing the tune.

So here is where I am as a "Stage 1" starting point:

-Larger TB (I know WookWook, but I am stubborn in this regard, LOL): ZZP
-TB Spacer (doing this so I can eventually add a MW kit, but doing it now while I have the TB off and changing it): ZZP
-Charge Pipe: Injen
-E85/FlexFuel conversion: ZZP
-Catted Down Pipe: ZZP
-Recirculation Valve: JacFab/BNR
-Coopers Camaro Tune w/ HP Tuner.

Waiting on Black Friday to buy this stuff as recommended by STM.

This is probably 80% of all I will ever do anyway. At some point I will add a Cat back exhaust, an intercooler, catch can, ZZP Big Wheel Turbo, and possibly a MW kit. I will stop at the point where the HP will get to where I have to worry about the stock internals.

Any other suggestions/ advice?

Last edited by DexnBlair; 10-29-2020 at 01:04 PM.
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Old 10-29-2020, 12:42 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by DexnBlair View Post
I have to worry about the stock internals.
Depending on which internals you're referring to, you are no where near maxing out the short block and probably not the valve train.
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Old 10-29-2020, 01:01 PM   #70
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Depending on which internals you're referring to, you are no where near maxing out the short block and probably not the valve train.
Motor, trans, rear...
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