[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by Osbornsm

DTC60 has less heat issues?


Explain

In my layman terms, the lower the torque from a pad the less heat gets generated. That's why normal dd pads are very hard and will last years, while performance pads are soft and will last a fraction of the time (as a generic comparison).

DTC70 is the most aggressive Hawk pad there is!!! (Per MU and temp resistance specs). Hence it will produce the most kinetic energy (resulting in shorter stops) but produce most thermal energy as a result (heat).

Note that race teams pick pads based on a type of track and event duration. Heck even iRacing permits you to choose a pad type as part of a car's set up. Interestingly, many "aliens" pick low friction pads (vs medium or high), as they permit better brake modulation in corner entry and often times that's prefered over absolute stopping distances. But that's off topic.

From a few posts ive read here, it seems that anyone (?) using top dog DTC70 runs into some sort of heat issue either boiling the fluid, or frying the calipers. OTOH a bunch of fast guys use DTC60 and dont seem to run into any issues. Of course stock Ferodos are no doubt the best choice for heat management as they dont even require DOT4 fluid per se.

Hope this explains where i am coming from. Cheers!

[NickyRacerBoy]

Actually they have a DTC 80 now

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by NickyRacerBoy

Actually they have a DTC 80 now

Not the first time that i stand corrected: thank you!

DTC80 is ultra high torque with even higher optimum operating temps vs DTC70. May i suggest a sponsor to fund the brake budget lol!

BTW DTC70 is described as extremely high torque vs DTC60 high torque.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

In my layman terms, the lower the torque from a pad the less heat gets generated. That's why normal dd pads are very hard and will last years, while performance pads are soft and will last a fraction of the time (as a generic comparison).

DTC70 is the most aggressive Hawk pad there is!!! (Per MU and temp resistance specs). Hence it will produce the most kinetic energy (resulting in shorter stops) but produce most thermal energy as a result (heat).

I think it's the rate of heat generation that goes up with shorter stops rather than the amount of heat itself, which would be defined by the change in velocity from start to finish of the braking event.

The rate of heat generation should be independent of pad mu but you might perceive it to be greater because you wouldn't be using as much foot pressure on the pedal to make it happen. You'd be subconsciously linking heat generation to the amount of your effort required, which might feel like you're getting more heat output from less pedal input.

At any rate, it's a thermal transient problem, where more severe transients (faster stops) would cause surface temperatures at the surfaces being heated to be significantly higher than the average through-thickness temperatures. In less severe transients, either from fewer mph's slowed or longer times taken to make happen, those temperature differences should be lower. If nothing else for the longer stops, air has more time to do some cooling.


Norm

[TrackClub]

Thanks Norm! I was hoping you'd jump in here with more technical explanation

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Thanks Norm! I was hoping you'd jump in here with more technical explanation

No problem - once in a while an automotive question comes up for which I've had at least loosely-related experience with back when I had one of those things called a "day job". This time it was thermal transient analysis of power plant piping subjected to rapid changes in fluid temperature.


Norm

[2010REDSS]

Originally Posted by NickyRacerBoy

I would love to hear a discussion comparing the different brands and their advantages/disadvantages relative to one another. I also have some specific questions. Your input would be greatly appreciated!





AP Racing Radi-cal brake kit?
Brembo Billet Mono Block?

Called Stoptech and they currently do not have kit for our cars

Nicky,

I'm using the Essex AP kits front & rear. Inaugural outing back in March went well.....but was screwing around with some other things on the car and candidly wasn't getting much clean track.

Headed back Memorial Day weekend with Chin and my best track bud and hope to push harder and really test them out. Sorry that'll be another week or so but will let you know how they compare to the stock ZLE Brembos.

I can tell you that pedal feel was far better with the AP's. Will see if that holds up with higher speeds and better lap times.

[TrackClub]

Oh my...the AP rotors look much smaller vs stockers...what pads did ya decide on?

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by NickyRacerBoy

I would love to hear a discussion comparing the different brands and their advantages/disadvantages relative to one another. I also have some specific questions. Your input would be greatly appreciated!





AP Racing Radi-cal brake kit?
Brembo Billet Mono Block?

Called Stoptech and they currently do not have kit for our cars

I haven't had the need to replace the brakes on either Camaro yet.. but I run the Essex AP Racing kits on every car I can. Great guys over there. I buy basically all my pads from them also.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Good point and that's exactly why I suggested to Nicky Bobby to check the specs and go with Enduro kit if they have them for gen6. Going with smaller rotors would make zero sense to me.

Better cooling due to rotor vane design. There are SS 1LE's with the setup.

Also pads that are MUCH thicker result in it making financial sense eventually also.

Now for a ZL1 1LE.. maybe not. But for an SS 1LE it could be worth it if you'll track it for years.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by 2010REDSS

I can tell you that pedal feel was far better with the AP's. Will see if that holds up with higher speeds and better lap times.

OK Now I'm very interested. I haven't reached the limits of the brakes yet but pedal feel in the Camaros is.. well.. shit IMO.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Better cooling due to rotor vane design. There are SS 1LE's with the setup.

Also pads that are MUCH thicker result in it making financial sense eventually also.

Now for a ZL1 1LE.. maybe not. But for an SS 1LE it could be worth it if you'll track it for years.

Ya i know they have a different vane design. Yet smaller rotor...so less metal to deal with heat...there is a good reason why their Endurance kits are huge...

Ive run double thickness DSUNOs on my Vette and from my recollection i did gain soms longevity but not all that much, yet the price point was dear.

What pads are you using RedSS???

[NickyRacerBoy]

AP sure are pretty.

[wnta1ss]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Oh my...the AP rotors look much smaller vs stockers...what pads did ya decide on?

Did some checking and what I found for the AP kits was 372mm front rotors. Smaller than ZL1 for sure, those are similar to SS/1LE size.