[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

LOL, well that was a personal jab. Not that I care what you think.

You obviously are confused or lack comprehension. So let me rephrase it in a way that would be easy for someone like yourself to understand.

If both cars (ZL1 and SLE) had the same suspension and chassis components and stiffness, then yes, regardless of HP and regardless of which car can get around a track faster, the lighter car, or the car without the extra weight on the front, would handle better. Are you following along soo far? Don't wanna lose you.

Now here is where it gets tricky. Stay with me now bud. I said twice in this thread that the SLE and ZL1 DO NOT have the same suspension components. Therefore it is possible that the extra weight on the front of the ZL1 could be neutralized if it has a better suspension and better balance than the SLE. How much better? How much weight? How much balance? Well the only way to know would be to have objective data to show which car actually handles better. Or to measure the Gs. We do not have that data. Therefore all you're doing is speculating that the SLE has to handle better simply because the ZL1 has more weight which is a pretty silly way to look at it since you have no other info.

The slight suspension changes are to make up for an inherit disadvantage of zl1's extra weight in the nose. Why you think that may be totally neutralized by the slight changes to spring rate giving the zl1 better suspension and balance, I don't get.

We do have some data on the matter as far as lateral G's go. According to Motortrend the best ss 1le's average skip pad G's are 1.12 vs the zl1's 1.08 (m6) 1.07 (a10). According to C&D the ss 1le pulled 1.11g average on the skip pad to the zl1's 1.07 (m6) 1.04 (a10).

For reference the zl1 1le is capable of as high as 1.17/1.18 later G's.

We also braking data favoring the ss 1le. Braking from 60 to 0 (93 to 97ft) and 70 to 0 (140 to 141ft) in a shorter distance than the zl1 according to both publishers. As well as far less powerful ss 1le putting up a faster figure 8 time than the zl1.

So going off of that we can assume that out of the two cars with nearly identical suspension, the lighter one is the better handling car. It's just physics.

No one is saying that the ss 1le is a better or faster car, ultimately that's subjective to the users needs and most would probably agree that the higher tier zl1 is the better overall car. However as far as just handling and balance go it's just not.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

LOL, well that was a personal jab. Not that I care what you think.

You obviously are confused or lack comprehension. So let me rephrase it in a way that would be easy for someone like yourself to understand.

If both cars (ZL1 and SLE) had the same suspension and chassis components and stiffness, then yes, regardless of HP and regardless of which car can get around a track faster, the lighter car, or the car without the extra weight on the front, would handle better. Are you following along soo far? Don't wanna lose you.

Now here is where it gets tricky. Stay with me now bud. I said twice in this thread that the SLE and ZL1 DO NOT have the same suspension components. Therefore it is possible that the extra weight on the front of the ZL1 could be neutralized if it has a better suspension and better balance than the SLE. How much better? How much weight? How much balance? Well the only way to know would be to have objective data to show which car actually handles better. Or to measure the Gs. We do not have that data. Therefore all you're doing is speculating that the SLE has to handle better simply because the ZL1 has more weight which is a pretty silly way to look at it since you have no other info.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I never said the SS or SLE are slow cars. They are fast. However there are plenty of people for whom they are not fast enough. Kinda like, a new CBR600 is a very fast bike. But when you're used to riding faster bikes then the 600s seem like they are not enough. It does not take away from the bike...or in this case, the SS/SLE. It's basically a matter of what the individual driver is used to. Someone who DDs highly modded 900+ RWHP cars would probably get in my cars and think they are slow compared to what they are used to driving.

If the SLE has all the same components as the ZL1 then yes, it MIGHT handle better due to being lighter. However even that is not a definite since there is only soo far you will get with such a small difference in weight. It isn't like there is a 500 pound difference. The difference is about 140 pounds as compared to the manual trans ZL1. So that might not even be enough to make a difference on a track these days. Or enough of a difference to say the SLE is the better choice between the two. That might be more or less just like splitting hairs between the two. Are they worlds apart? Absolutely not. Is it possible that the SLE just might edge the ZL1 out in handling aspects alone with no other measurements involved? Perhaps. I doubt it. But perhaps. If so, then is it enough of a difference to even mention? Or is it even worth mentioning? Probably not. Would I let any of these decide which car to get? No. Because whatever the difference is, only a pro could tell and that is even if they can. And I do understand everything you said and I agree. However I still feel that the ZL1 IS the better handling car between the two.

The weight difference is more like 165-169lbs for an m6 vs an m6, doesn't make a world of difference but enough to give it higher lateral G's and figure 8 lap times during publisher testing while having less hp. Are they worlds apart? Absolutely not, mostly splitting hairs here. Does the ss 1le perform better in handling and braking only measurements? Yes, it does, you might doubt it but the data is out there so idk why you doubt it.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

The weight difference is more like 165-169lbs for an m6 vs an m6, doesn't make a world of difference but enough to give it higher lateral G's and figure 8 lap times during publisher testing while having less hp. Are they worlds apart? Absolutely not, mostly splitting hairs here. Does the ss 1le perform better in handling and braking only measurements? Yes, it does, you might doubt it but the data is out there so idk why you doubt it.

And isn't all that extra weight right over the front wheels?

which would in turn make the lighter car "feel" more responsive and engaging to steering inputs which is why people say it handles better.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by shaffe

And isn't all that extra weight right over the front wheels?

which would in turn make the lighter car "feel" more responsive and engaging to steering inputs which is why people say it handles better.

The SLE doesn't just "feel" like it handles better, it does objectively handle better than the ZL1 as evidenced by the testing numbers RobbyBeefCake mentioned above. The ZL1's massive hp and torque advantage more than makes up for the SLE's marginally better grip and handling when going around a track that isn't short and technical.

There's a difference between handling prowess and how fast a car goes around a track that Blaq doesn't seem to comprehend. Many people drive cars that make them feel a certain way - which is why some might pay more for a GT350R than buy a slightly subjectively faster car (around a track) like the ZL1, much to Blaq's disbelief. Or why many people drive Miatas...

[joe944]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

Or why many people drive Miatas...

I have a miata in the garage next to the ZL1.

[Nothing like an SS]

Originally Posted by joe944

I have a miata in the garage next to the ZL1.

We have a 91 Miata in the garage next to my SS 1LE

The garage is now called "The Toy Box" LOL

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

The SLE doesn't just "feel" like it handles better, it does subjectively handle better than the ZL1 as evidenced by the testing numbers RobbyBeefCake mentioned above. The ZL1's massive hp and torque advantage more than makes up for the SLE's marginally better grip and handling when going around a track that isn't short and technical.

There's a difference between handling prowess and how fast a car goes around a track that Blaq doesn't seem to comprehend. Many people drive cars that make them feel a certain way - which is why some might pay more for a GT350R than buy a slightly subjectively faster car (around a track) like the ZL1, much to Blaq's disbelief. Or why many people drive Miatas...

Right that's what I was trying to say I just couldn't put the words together lol.

[Bosse'sBoss]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

The slight suspension changes are to make up for an inherit disadvantage of zl1's extra weight in the nose. Why you think that may be totally neutralized by the slight changes to spring rate giving the zl1 better suspension and balance, I don't get.

We do have some data on the matter as far as lateral G's go. According to Motortrend the best ss 1le's average skip pad G's are 1.12 vs the zl1's 1.08 (m6) 1.07 (a10). According to C&D the ss 1le pulled 1.11g average on the skip pad to the zl1's 1.07 (m6) 1.04 (a10).

For reference the zl1 1le is capable of as high as 1.17/1.18 later G's.

We also braking data favoring the ss 1le. Braking from 60 to 0 (93 to 97ft) and 70 to 0 (140 to 141ft) in a shorter distance than the zl1 according to both publishers. As well as far less powerful ss 1le putting up a faster figure 8 time than the zl1.

So going off of that we can assume that out of the two cars with nearly identical suspension, the lighter one is the better handling car. It's just physics.

No one is saying that the ss 1le is a better or faster car, ultimately that's subjective to the users needs and most would probably agree that the higher tier zl1 is the better overall car. However as far as just handling and balance go it's just not.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

The slight suspension changes are to make up for an inherit disadvantage of zl1's extra weight in the nose. Why you think that may be totally neutralized by the slight changes to spring rate giving the zl1 better suspension and balance, I don't get.

We do have some data on the matter as far as lateral G's go. According to Motortrend the best ss 1le's average skip pad G's are 1.12 vs the zl1's 1.08 (m6) 1.07 (a10). According to C&D the ss 1le pulled 1.11g average on the skip pad to the zl1's 1.07 (m6) 1.04 (a10).

For reference the zl1 1le is capable of as high as 1.17/1.18 later G's.

We also braking data favoring the ss 1le. Braking from 60 to 0 (93 to 97ft) and 70 to 0 (140 to 141ft) in a shorter distance than the zl1 according to both publishers. As well as far less powerful ss 1le putting up a faster figure 8 time than the zl1.

So going off of that we can assume that out of the two cars with nearly identical suspension, the lighter one is the better handling car. It's just physics.

No one is saying that the ss 1le is a better or faster car, ultimately that's subjective to the users needs and most would probably agree that the higher tier zl1 is the better overall car. However as far as just handling and balance go it's just not.

Please post the link for this info.

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

The weight difference is more like 165-169lbs for an m6 vs an m6, doesn't make a world of difference but enough to give it higher lateral G's and figure 8 lap times during publisher testing while having less hp. Are they worlds apart? Absolutely not, mostly splitting hairs here. Does the ss 1le perform better in handling and braking only measurements? Yes, it does, you might doubt it but the data is out there so idk why you doubt it.

Going off the specs I saw, there was only a 140 pound difference.

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

The SLE doesn't just "feel" like it handles better, it does subjectively handle better than the ZL1 as evidenced by the testing numbers RobbyBeefCake mentioned above. The ZL1's massive hp and torque advantage more than makes up for the SLE's marginally better grip and handling when going around a track that isn't short and technical.

There's a difference between handling prowess and how fast a car goes around a track that Blaq doesn't seem to comprehend. Many people drive cars that make them feel a certain way - which is why some might pay more for a GT350R than buy a slightly subjectively faster car (around a track) like the ZL1, much to Blaq's disbelief. Or why many people drive Miatas...

I suggest you comprehend what the word "subjective" means before you try calling me out.

I wouldn't buy or drive a Miata if I got paid to.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Please post the link for this info.

Going off the specs I saw, there was only a 140 pound difference.

I suggest you comprehend what the word "subjective" means before you try calling me out.

I wouldn't buy or drive a Miata if I got paid to.

I know what it means, I obviously meant "objectively"; just a misprint. That's why there's reviewers/editors in the real world. I'll update my post to be clear.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Please post the link for this info.

Going off the specs I saw, there was only a 140 pound difference.

I suggest you comprehend what the word "subjective" means before you try calling me out.

I wouldn't buy or drive a Miata if I got paid to.

I hope you're not doubting these figures, I think anyone I debate with on here can attest to the fact that I always bring the numbers and hard data You can easily Google it yourself but here you lol.

Manual zl1 Motortrend numbers in the shootout vs the gt350s.
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/ford...gt350r-review/

Auto zl1 Motortrend solo review test.
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/chev...e-squad-goals/

Manual zl1 Car and Driver solo test review.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...l-test-review/

Auto zl1 Car and Driver solo test review
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...1-test-review/

A10 zl1 1le in the article vs the gt500 and redeye.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...-car-showdown/

M6 zl1 1le solo review.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...e-test-review/

Motortrend ss 1le, vs the pp1.
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/chev...ck-comparison/

Car and Driver ss 1le, vs pp2.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...-pack-level-2/

M6 zl1 weight was listed at 3904 and 3912, ss 1le weight was listed at 3735 and 3746 I believe.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Add me to the pile of Miata guys, I have two NB's.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

The SLE doesn't just "feel" like it handles better, it does objectively handle better than the ZL1 as evidenced by the testing numbers RobbyBeefCake mentioned above. The ZL1's massive hp and torque advantage more than makes up for the SLE's marginally better grip and handling when going around a track that isn't short and technical.

There's a difference between handling prowess and how fast a car goes around a track that Blaq doesn't seem to comprehend. Many people drive cars that make them feel a certain way - which is why some might pay more for a GT350R than buy a slightly subjectively faster car (around a track) like the ZL1, much to Blaq's disbelief. Or why many people drive Miatas...

Agreed, many factors like feel and preferances outside of performance certainly factor into some people's purchases. Same reason people were willing to pay more for a slightly slower gt350 (also around a track) when the ss 1le came out in 2017

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

I hope you're not doubting these figures, I think anyone I debate with on here can attest to the fact that I always bring the numbers and hard data You can easily Google it yourself but here you lol.

Manual zl1 Motortrend numbers in the shootout vs the gt350s.
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/ford...gt350r-review/

Auto zl1 Motortrend solo review test.
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/chev...e-squad-goals/

Manual zl1 Car and Driver solo test review.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...l-test-review/

Auto zl1 Car and Driver solo test review
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...1-test-review/

A10 zl1 1le in the article vs the gt500 and redeye.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...-car-showdown/

M6 zl1 1le solo review.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...e-test-review/

Motortrend ss 1le, vs the pp1.
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/chev...ck-comparison/

Car and Driver ss 1le, vs pp2.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...-pack-level-2/

M6 zl1 weight was listed at 3904 and 3912, ss 1le weight was listed at 3735 and 3746 I believe.

WTF is up with all the hostility and animosity here? Did I miss something while I been gone? Is something amiss? I wasn't even challenging you bro. I was just freakin asking for the links so I could see what info you were referring to and to know which tests you were comparing. And so OP can have the info he is looking for. You guys need to calm down a bit. Geez.