[Ryephile]

Something to keep in mind; both the SS 1LE and ZL1 use the FE4 suspension. This means their MRC dampers, suspension links, bushings, rose-joints, knuckles, and thus kinematics are all identical. The spring part numbers are different to account for the weight delta. They use the same tires and wheel dimensions.

The only difference in "handling" will be from the weight and weight distribution differences from the powertrain.

[ST1LE]

The data is in, the debate is over. The SLE handles better due to lower weight, but the ZL1 is faster due to higher horsepower.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

My comment was about the MT article with the ZL1 vs the GT350R. It had nothing to do with the SLE. And I just said in my comment before this that I am not sure which of the two handle better. So what are you confused about.

See I thought your comment was referring to them(MT) talking about the added weight of the SC and then saying they liked the SSLE better. Because that is what MT said, you then said that is a comment only someone without a brain could make. I just misread your comment is all

Originally Posted by ST1LE

The data is in, the debate is over. The SLE handles better due to lower weight, but the ZL1 is faster due to higher horsepower.

This ^

[joe944]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

The data is in, the debate is over. The SLE handles better due to lower weight, but the ZL1 is faster due to higher horsepower.

Did we even need data to determine that?

If you track the car more often than drive it on the street, I'd argue the SLE being the better buy. Same can be said if you primarily drive it on mountain/canyon roads, too, since the extra HP in the ZL1/E can be a liability, as well as the ZLE being too stiff for a lot of them.

The ZL1's power can be more fun on the street, although it might earn you a swift kick in the ass from the law if you aren't smart enough to know the right time and place.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by joe944

Did we even need data to determine that?

If you track the car more often than drive it on the street, I'd argue the SLE being the better buy. Same can be said if you primarily drive it on mountain/canyon roads, too, since the extra HP in the ZL1/E can be a liability, as well as the ZLE being too stiff for a lot of them.

The ZL1's power can be more fun on the street, although it might earn you a swift kick in the ass from the law if you aren't smart enough to know the right time and place.

Sadly, it appeared so by some responses we got in this thread. I think you're right on you comment on the better buy for the use, but damn the ZL1 is such a great value(not like i have to tell you), I would buy one for sure if I was in the Camaro market.

[BlaqWhole]

I, personally, was not under the impression that the SLE could outhandle the ZL1. And I don't mind admitting it. And basically I still doubt it. If they have the same components then the weight issue would be accurate. But they have different components which means that we actually would need data to prove the point. I'm not trying to take anything away from the SLE. I simply think the ZL1 is superior in every way.

As far as the better buy, I do not think that anyone who can afford both would pick a SLE over the ZL1. And that is not a knock. It is just a statement that I think is true. It isn't like the GT and GT350...personally I would buy a GT way before buying a GT350 or even a GT500 and that is considering that I can buy either or even both.

[Bosse'sBoss]

Probably would be a similar situation, when MT have tested both the C7 GS & the C7 Z06, and they prefer the slower GS, mentioning that it handles better than the Z06 that they feel that the Z06 couldn't put the power to the ground safely.
By the same token they prefer the superior handling of the 6th gen Camaro ZL1 compared to the Z06, even that the ZL1 is slower at the track.



Probably the same could be said from the Porsche GT2RS that has a TT engine compared to the GT3RS which has a N.A. engine. Both are track ready.


Or we can compare it that some people prefer to drive with a MT because it provides more driver's involvement even that their car would be slower at the track compared to the same car on a DCT like the excellent PDK transmission.
Sometimes is not about being faster but about enjoying your driving.

[joe944]

No matter what components you change, physics cannot be overcome.

Adding weight to the front reduces handling, therefore the SLE is superior. This is why we see very similar lap times for the ZL1 and SLE on tight technical tracks.

Blaq, honestly your input doesn't belong in this thread because you don't know anything about road course racing.

[JROC]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I, personally, was not under the impression that the SLE could outhandle the ZL1. And I don't mind admitting it. And basically I still doubt it. If they have the same components then the weight issue would be accurate. But they have different components which means that we actually would need data to prove the point.

A SS 1LE is basically a ZL1 with a different look and an LT1 instead of an LT4. The brakes are slightly different as is I believe the front springs rate, but this is because GM is compensating/trying to offset as best they can for an extra 200 lbs on the front of the car with the blower and the cooling systems required for it. Same MRC, swaybar setup, (I'm 95% sure they use the same anti-swaybars) same eLSD equipped rearend, and the SS 1LE even uses the ZL1 fuel pump. The SS 1LE and ZL1 share much of the same components so in many ways a SS 1LE is more similar to a ZL1 than a non-1LE SS.

Generally speaking your lighter, N/A cars are your more track focused cars that prioritize handling over all else. Like was already said cars like a 911 GT2 vs GT3, or C7 GS vs Z06, or C6 Z06 Z07 vs C6 ZR1, or GEN5 ZL1 vs Z/28. The N/A car is generally preferred by track and handling enthusiasts even if they're ultimately less capable due to the HP gap. And yes this is intended and claimed by the manufacturers as well. It's because of their balance and manageability. (Also cooling issues are far less likely with N/A cars) You can push them a lot harder without getting into trouble. Trying to muscle a car that will spin it's tires at 75 MPH or in 3rd gear thru turns takes a lot more skill and disciple.

Also none of these N/A cars are slow under acceleration. They're all potential 11 second cars in stock form. C6Z's (and maybe 911 GT3's) have even ran in the 10's bone stock. Now breaking into the 11's with a stock SS 1LE may be a hero run, but for a good driver, on a good surface, in ideal conditions the potential is there. Kind of like a LS1 GEN4 car is a potential 12 second car bone stock, a GEN6 with an LT1 is a potential 11 second car bone stock. My point being that while of course a ZL1 with an extra 195 BHP is a faster car, even a basic LT1/SS is a fairly fast car. (At the very least they make strong power and are quick) People like to act like they're slow and I don't agree. That's not me saying not to mod more power out of them as there's a lot of potential left in them from the factory, I'm just saying that they're pretty strong even stock.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by joe944

No matter what components you change, physics cannot be overcome.

Adding weight to the front reduces handling, therefore the SLE is superior. This is why we see very similar lap times for the ZL1 and SLE on tight technical tracks.

Blaq, honestly your input doesn't belong in this thread because you don't know anything about road course racing.

LOL, well that was a personal jab. Not that I care what you think.

You obviously are confused or lack comprehension. So let me rephrase it in a way that would be easy for someone like yourself to understand.

If both cars (ZL1 and SLE) had the same suspension and chassis components and stiffness, then yes, regardless of HP and regardless of which car can get around a track faster, the lighter car, or the car without the extra weight on the front, would handle better. Are you following along soo far? Don't wanna lose you.

Now here is where it gets tricky. Stay with me now bud. I said twice in this thread that the SLE and ZL1 DO NOT have the same suspension components. Therefore it is possible that the extra weight on the front of the ZL1 could be neutralized if it has a better suspension and better balance than the SLE. How much better? How much weight? How much balance? Well the only way to know would be to have objective data to show which car actually handles better. Or to measure the Gs. We do not have that data. Therefore all you're doing is speculating that the SLE has to handle better simply because the ZL1 has more weight which is a pretty silly way to look at it since you have no other info.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by JROC

A SS 1LE is basically a ZL1 with a different look and an LT1 instead of an LT4. The brakes are slightly different as is I believe the front springs rate, but this is because GM is compensating/trying to offset as best they can for an extra 200 lbs on the front of the car with the blower and the cooling systems required for it. Same MRC, swaybar setup, (I'm 95% sure they use the same anti-swaybars) same eLSD equipped rearend, and the SS 1LE even uses the ZL1 fuel pump. The SS 1LE and ZL1 share much of the same components so in many ways a SS 1LE is more similar to a ZL1 than a non-1LE SS.

Generally speaking your lighter, N/A cars are your more track focused cars that prioritize handling over all else. Like was already said cars like a 911 GT2 vs GT3, or C7 GS vs Z06, or C6 Z06 Z07 vs C6 ZR1, or GEN5 ZL1 vs Z/28. The N/A car is generally preferred by track and handling enthusiasts even if they're ultimately less capable due to the HP gap. And yes this is intended and claimed by the manufacturers as well. It's because of their balance and manageability. (Also cooling issues are far less likely with N/A cars) You can push them a lot harder without getting into trouble. Trying to muscle a car that will spin it's tires at 75 MPH or in 3rd gear thru turns takes a lot more skill and disciple.

Also none of these N/A cars are slow under acceleration. They're all potential 11 second cars in stock form. C6Z's (and maybe 911 GT3's) have even ran in the 10's bone stock. Now breaking into the 11's with a stock SS 1LE may be a hero run, but for a good driver, on a good surface, in ideal conditions the potential is there. Kind of like a LS1 GEN4 car is a potential 12 second car bone stock, a GEN6 with an LT1 is a potential 11 second car bone stock. My point being that while of course a ZL1 with an extra 195 BHP is a faster car, even a basic LT1/SS is a fairly fast car. (At the very least they make strong power and are quick) People like to act like they're slow and I don't agree. That's not me saying not to mod more power out of them as there's a lot of potential left in them from the factory, I'm just saying that they're pretty strong even stock.

I never said the SS or SLE are slow cars. They are fast. However there are plenty of people for whom they are not fast enough. Kinda like, a new CBR600 is a very fast bike. But when you're used to riding faster bikes then the 600s seem like they are not enough. It does not take away from the bike...or in this case, the SS/SLE. It's basically a matter of what the individual driver is used to. Someone who DDs highly modded 900+ RWHP cars would probably get in my cars and think they are slow compared to what they are used to driving.

If the SLE has all the same components as the ZL1 then yes, it MIGHT handle better due to being lighter. However even that is not a definite since there is only soo far you will get with such a small difference in weight. It isn't like there is a 500 pound difference. The difference is about 140 pounds as compared to the manual trans ZL1. So that might not even be enough to make a difference on a track these days. Or enough of a difference to say the SLE is the better choice between the two. That might be more or less just like splitting hairs between the two. Are they worlds apart? Absolutely not. Is it possible that the SLE just might edge the ZL1 out in handling aspects alone with no other measurements involved? Perhaps. I doubt it. But perhaps. If so, then is it enough of a difference to even mention? Or is it even worth mentioning? Probably not. Would I let any of these decide which car to get? No. Because whatever the difference is, only a pro could tell and that is even if they can. And I do understand everything you said and I agree. However I still feel that the ZL1 IS the better handling car between the two.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Bosse'sBoss

Probably would be a similar situation, when MT have tested both the C7 GS & the C7 Z06, and they prefer the slower GS, mentioning that it handles better than the Z06 that they feel that the Z06 couldn't put the power to the ground safely.
By the same token they prefer the superior handling of the 6th gen Camaro ZL1 compared to the Z06, even that the ZL1 is slower at the track.



Probably the same could be said from the Porsche GT2RS that has a TT engine compared to the GT3RS which has a N.A. engine. Both are track ready.


Or we can compare it that some people prefer to drive with a MT because it provides more driver's involvement even that their car would be slower at the track compared to the same car on a DCT like the excellent PDK transmission.
Sometimes is not about being faster but about enjoying your driving.

I feel that a lot of times the magazines and testers of these cars just say this stuff to justify their pick. I've been racing and involved with cars for 3 decades now. And I don't ever remember a time when someone preferred the slower car. Unless when insurance, money, storage, wife and kids, etc, were outside factors that heavily impacted the decision. The only people who don't think like this are those who don't race. And I don't say that looking down on anyone. But if you're on the scene and you're racing then nobody leaves saying "well I lost but I had a better time than everyone else". Which is why all these side measurements have no place in performance reviews. If it is an overall review then there should be detailed info on other aspects of the car, But when MT or C&D have a comparo and it is heavily based on how these cars perform and at the end when they spent 5 pages talking about performance, they come out talking about "oh well this car is more fun to drive so although it got toasted in every measurement and is more expensive we still prefer it"...makes no sense. It's like giving the losing team a trophy because they had fun. Nobody has fun losing. Otherwise they wouldn't be racing. If a GT500 beats me, I still enjoy my car...but it will suck to lose. Because losing, being slower, whatever you call it, sucks. LOL!! Which is why the aftermarket exists.

[Nothing like an SS]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

As far as the better buy, I do not think that anyone who can afford both would pick a SLE over the ZL1. And that is not a knock. It is just a statement that I think is true.

Well, I could afford both and I easily chose an SS 1LE, so there is that. Be careful of blanket statements regarding what other people think and would do.

I drove both and preferred the SS 1LE, simple as that.

Sorry, but your opinion and speculation do not = FACT.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by joe944

Did we even need data to determine that?

If you track the car more often than drive it on the street, I'd argue the SLE being the better buy. Same can be said if you primarily drive it on mountain/canyon roads, too, since the extra HP in the ZL1/E can be a liability, as well as the ZLE being too stiff for a lot of them.

The ZL1's power can be more fun on the street, although it might earn you a swift kick in the ass from the law if you aren't smart enough to know the right time and place.

Agree with everything posted... I'll just add that the ss 1le or just about any "sports" car can get you in trouble with the law pretty quickly lol.