[Dustya]

The truth also is there are many many many other mods to consider before the intake even is a really issue.

[PolynesianPowerhouse]

Originally Posted by Dustya

The truth also is there are many many many other mods to consider before the intake even is a really issue.

I agree and disagree at the same thing

but nah, seriously speaking, I think some want the old school 5th gen bolt on mods.

boost, nitrous, etc... might make a NEED to have these things. but when they released the TB, the isolator and intake manifold spacer. with the boltons and a tune, these parts added a decent respectable amount of power in the mid range band. I remember reading PAGES of Jasons posts on before and after gains, and then tuned versions.

and I know some are just garage queen/dyno queen numbers people... and many were turned off at the max gains.... but the gains to be had in the mid rage were up in the 14-20rwhp in certain rpms. the max gains were like 5 or 7 to 12 or so.

for certain events, autoX for me, that mid range gain idea is sexy!

[cellsafemode]

isolator from what? the intake is composite. There's no fuel for the intake runner lengths to matter. Air just needs a nice low turbulance path to flow easily into the combustion chamber.

The purpose of these spacers and such made sense back when everything was metal and conducting heat into the air and fuel mixed in with the air in the TB or intake manifold ....

I doubt it matters anymore.

[PolynesianPowerhouse]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

isolator from what? the intake is composite. There's no fuel for the intake runner lengths to matter. Air just needs a nice low turbulance path to flow easily into the combustion chamber.

The purpose of these spacers and such made sense back when everything was metal and conducting heat into the air and fuel mixed in with the air in the TB or intake manifold ....

I doubt it matters anymore.

a lot of people doubted it, then he proved em wrong


the iceolator was the first thing done for v6 Camaros. the LLT engine was from 2010-2011... the intake manifold was aluminum.



Testing: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=314373


Naturally once the LFX engine took over in 2012 thru 2015 with the plastic composite manifold, there was a group of us that wanted the same gains, but with a longer runner setup technically. it was now called the Extendolator. granted there were nay sayers and skeptics, I do remember, saying it was only on older cars... but then Jason did the tests:
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=307431

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...862713#post332

http://jacfab.com/products/camaro-pr...nifold-spacer/

now I know some may scoff at the names, but call it what ya want, it works.



Another attribute of testament. theres a guy from the east coast who has went and won the v6 category at Camaro fest for 2 years now, N/A. hes got some mods done, and I don't wanna out his name, but a certain yellow car.... can ya guess what mods he running? ported manifold, 80mm TB setup, and some other goodies.

as for Jason, hes ported TB, and manifolds. but hes posted the results...the good and bad. prob easily one of the few DIY guys here that has produced parts for many on the forum in the past years as a legit business. and stuff that worked, no less.

http://jacfab.com/products/camaro-pr...take-manifold/

hes also taken his new 2.0T from:

2016 1LT RS, 2.0T A8
13.462 @ 100.65, stock eng/tune w/ some weight reduction
12.957 @ 103.45, JacFab BigMouth TB & Charge pipe, Catless downpipe, LSD diff swap, Ghetto drag pack, unfinished tune.

that's why a lot of people have been waiting for his ported TB, intake manifold, and possible an intake manifold spacer (not a TB spacer).

its been proven on the DI engine, same and similar to the LFX, it makes gains.

[cellsafemode]

I'd prefer to know how it works before attributing any gains to things that dont seem like they should do anything.

But I'm sure if someone built those things for the lgx and a couple independent people showed gains outside of single digit differences in hp/tq it would sell to basically everyone with a v6 on here.

Porting is different, i'm mostly skeptical about the spacers and the TB without the associated intake increase in diameter.

[PolynesianPowerhouse]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

I'd prefer to know how it works before attributing any gains to things that dont seem like they should do anything.

But I'm sure if someone built those things for the lgx and a couple independent people showed gains outside of single digit differences in hp/tq it would sell to basically everyone with a v6 on here.

Porting is different, i'm mostly skeptical about the spacers and the TB without the associated intake increase in diameter.

I agree if someone built it, it would sell....

however we gotta be real, not to everyone. theres some of us, who cut our exhaust off to install axlebacks, but some will only do what GM does for them. and that varies from dealer to dealer.

ported TB's are available.... how many have indulged in those? a handful of us. but not too many. the majority of forums now days are all about talk and no action. that's just being brutally honest.

people wanted boost and tuning... its NOW available. how many have it? I know a few have it on the fb forum. 2 or 3 have it here. its reliable, comes with tuning. but if people aren't flocking to something as cheap as a TB, or boost or nitrous... any other part, sadly, will be the same effect. its partly why I haven't posted a lot here in the past few months. I just stick with the suspension and road/track/autoX forums mainly.

there are a few on camaro5 and modernmuscle that have "independently posted their sheets, results, reviews, with and without tuning, but I don't have the time personally to go delve in and find every single post for all. but you or anyone can check out camaro5, mm, or even google it. more than enough "proof" is evident for anyone skeptical. most will not have the motivation to simply search for free info...

also in addition to the dyno sheets.... the best results of all have been posted. REAL WORLD RESULTS. sadly people sit around on forums and judge and rate things based off dyno numbers mainly. anyone knows, all dynos are different as can be the readings and results, via the location, style and calibration of a dyno. but it seems that the normal forums don't pay any attention to track gains, even when back to back. yet top pros, like randy Probst can post track times of tires and show that one tire had a 1.5 second advanatage and people listen. I mean, I get most will not go to a track, drag strip, or autoX. some just wanna drive a canyon, or a spirited drive to work. nothing wrong with that.

plenty of these posts span anywhere from 10-40+ pages. you gotta think, this was over a period of 6 years.... and plenty people tried it out and some still run it. its not a thing of, "well one person only tested it once and people ran with that". there's been NUMEROUS dyno sheets. different cars before and after. results with the spacer only, spacer and ported intake manifold only and all 3 together. there's been direct injection v6's in the Camaro since the LLT in 2010.


-with a longer runner, you gain a bit more velocity.
-with a ported manifold you gain flow and less turbulence.
-with an aftermarket intake you get rid of ridged rubber couplers for smooth flowing tubes... less turbulence and more velocity.


its no hidden trick on how they work. it just takes someone to do some fabrication, some flow testing, then dyno or real world testing and making gains


you can also do research on Camaro6, and he was posting in this very forum about mods planned to be done for the LGX (porting and filling the intake manifold was time consuming), but after he got the 2.0T and had an addition in the form of a baby to his fam, hes focused more on his car and family stuff, which is why a lot of the plans for the LGX was scrapped.

all I can say further is the info is out there. jacfab has done a lot of testing and explanations on why and how it works. MACE over in austrailia also started selling some of the same parts, but they make em. and BCS here in the states make em as well now. feel free to contact any of em, Jason is in the 2.0T forum right next to ours on the list

[viewska]

Once I heard this project stalled I ordered a manifold so I could do some trial and error to share with the community and almost immediately afterwards there was talk of the larger 80mm butterfly project for overkill, kinda felt like I was stepping on toes at that point so I didn't even bother. It's still in a box in my garage. I'd would much rather buy one from somebody with experience than spend a lot of my own time developing something through trial and error.... it has sat on a shelf for almost 6months now... I guess it's time for some backyard engineering fellas

[WhiteLightening]

Originally Posted by PolynesianPowerhouse

I agree if someone built it, it would sell....

however we gotta be real, not to everyone. theres some of us, who cut our exhaust off to install axlebacks, but some will only do what GM does for them. and that varies from dealer to dealer.

ported TB's are available.... how many have indulged in those? a handful of us. but not too many. the majority of forums now days are all about talk and no action. that's just being brutally honest.

people wanted boost and tuning... its NOW available. how many have it? I know a few have it on the fb forum. 2 or 3 have it here. its reliable, comes with tuning. but if people aren't flocking to something as cheap as a TB, or boost or nitrous... any other part, sadly, will be the same effect. its partly why I haven't posted a lot here in the past few months. I just stick with the suspension and road/track/autoX forums mainly.

there are a few on camaro5 and modernmuscle that have "independently posted their sheets, results, reviews, with and without tuning, but I don't have the time personally to go delve in and find every single post for all. but you or anyone can check out camaro5, mm, or even google it. more than enough "proof" is evident for anyone skeptical. most will not have the motivation to simply search for free info...

also in addition to the dyno sheets.... the best results of all have been posted. REAL WORLD RESULTS. sadly people sit around on forums and judge and rate things based off dyno numbers mainly. anyone knows, all dynos are different as can be the readings and results, via the location, style and calibration of a dyno. but it seems that the normal forums don't pay any attention to track gains, even when back to back. yet top pros, like randy Probst can post track times of tires and show that one tire had a 1.5 second advanatage and people listen. I mean, I get most will not go to a track, drag strip, or autoX. some just wanna drive a canyon, or a spirited drive to work. nothing wrong with that.

plenty of these posts span anywhere from 10-40+ pages. you gotta think, this was over a period of 6 years.... and plenty people tried it out and some still run it. its not a thing of, "well one person only tested it once and people ran with that". there's been NUMEROUS dyno sheets. different cars before and after. results with the spacer only, spacer and ported intake manifold only and all 3 together. there's been direct injection v6's in the Camaro since the LLT in 2010.


-with a longer runner, you gain a bit more velocity.
-with a ported manifold you gain flow and less turbulence.
-with an aftermarket intake you get rid of ridged rubber couplers for smooth flowing tubes... less turbulence and more velocity.


its no hidden trick on how they work. it just takes someone to do some fabrication, some flow testing, then dyno or real world testing and making gains


you can also do research on Camaro6, and he was posting in this very forum about mods planned to be done for the LGX (porting and filling the intake manifold was time consuming), but after he got the 2.0T and had an addition in the form of a baby to his fam, hes focused more on his car and family stuff, which is why a lot of the plans for the LGX was scrapped.

all I can say further is the info is out there. jacfab has done a lot of testing and explanations on why and how it works. MACE over in austrailia also started selling some of the same parts, but they make em. and BCS here in the states make em as well now. feel free to contact any of em, Jason is in the 2.0T forum right next to ours on the list

Sign me up for when a ported intake manifold comes out! I plan on getting on as long as it works with a s/c set up.

[Dustya]

Originally Posted by WhiteLightening

Sign me up for when a ported intake manifold comes out! I plan on getting on as long as it works with a s/c set up.

Without going into too much debate This is not technically a ported intake manifold the modification is actually filling it up so the air has a much better path..

A ported intake and TB is also not needed for Basic Supercharger applications..

You are also only as good as your weakest link.. You need to be able to expel air just as quick as you are pushing it in.. too much vacuum boost is actually not a good thing on a stock block and filling the intake manifold in will create more boost .. how much ? I could not tell you as it has not been tested on the 6th gen. I have no plans to modify my intake manifold.. You want more boost you can buy a smaller pulley..

Then you get into Air fuel ratios and fuel system etc... I am currently running zl1 in tank pump with ATS-V injectors if I go with a smaller pulley and start pushing more then 11lbs of boost I am currently around 10-10.5.. I will need a higher flow HPFP.. At that point if I change anything else and want more boost the intake could come into effect at that point.. But then there are other variables porting the built in exhaust manifold if its doable would be good for a supercharger setup.

That is so far down the road though...There is so much more that goes into it then just slapping some parts on the car. If you want to supercharge the overkill system has been designed and fabricated to create 8-9lbs of boost on stock setup and fuel system I would not mess with the intake manifold unless you are ready to get into a whole lot more.

[KirkH]

Are the Overkill install instructions posted anywhere? I'd like to read the install before purchasing.

[WhiteLightening]

Originally Posted by Dustya

Without going into too much debate This is not technically a ported intake manifold the modification is actually filling it up so the air has a much better path..

A ported intake and TB is also not needed for Basic Supercharger applications..

You are also only as good as your weakest link.. You need to be able to expel air just as quick as you are pushing it in.. too much vacuum boost is actually not a good thing on a stock block and filling the intake manifold in will create more boost .. how much ? I could not tell you as it has not been tested on the 6th gen. I have no plans to modify my intake manifold.. You want more boost you can buy a smaller pulley..

Then you get into Air fuel ratios and fuel system etc... I am currently running zl1 in tank pump with ATS-V injectors if I go with a smaller pulley and start pushing more then 11lbs of boost I am currently around 10-10.5.. I will need a higher flow HPFP.. At that point if I change anything else and want more boost the intake could come into effect at that point.. But then there are other variables porting the built in exhaust manifold if its doable would be good for a supercharger setup.

That is so far down the road though...There is so much more that goes into it then just slapping some parts on the car. If you want to supercharge the overkill system has been designed and fabricated to create 8-9lbs of boost on stock setup and fuel system I would not mess with the intake manifold unless you are ready to get into a whole lot more.

Tho this ported intake would would well for an N/A build, is that what your getting at not a boosted build? Has anyone tried building a high output N/A build engine? Is that possible with current aftermarket support with our v6?

[Jason@JacFab]

There is a method to all my madness when it comes to the products I make...

The intake manifold spacers work by changing the length of the runner. Yes, the intakes are already composite, but even so, the spacer does lower the intake air temps still, although not as big of a difference as say a 10-11 LLT that had the aluminum intake. The 5th gen Camaro intake sees improved HP and torque below about 5000rpms with the spacer, multiple thicknesses, as well as two different styles, were tested on a dyno by myself, and several other forum members before I started selling them. On an Impala limited intake manifold they actually gain HP and TQ in the top end as the impala plenum is so small compared to others, the spacers give it some more volume.



if they didn't work, I wouldn't sell them.

As for the ported intake. In time, I'm sure something will show up at some point. I feel bad for leaving Will hanging, as he contacted me to make the 80mm parts and integrate it all onto a ported intake manifold... I have the first one for him about half done, but $4!7 happens, and I haven't had time to finish it. Please don't look poorly upon Will for this project not really having gotten anywhere thus far, that's all on me. The LGX intake is much more difficult of a job than say a 5th gen LFX intake, and the margin for error and possibility of ruining intakes is MUCH higher, which is one of the main reasons, I'm hesitant to really jump in to them. The LGX intake requires a lot more work than the LFX intake, for maximum effort. It's hard to develop parts for a car you don't own... I bought a 4 cylinder because GM made too many changes to the LGX from LFX jump, that would eliminate most of the parts I made for the 5th gen v6. There are more parts for me to develop on the 4 cylidner, and I knew that short of supercharging the v6, the 4 cylinder would crush it at the drag strip with not much money in it. Coincidentally, if you push it too hard it will break, where as the v6 probably won't (unless you're pushing it with a supercharger)..... also was mentioned, now I have a 3 month old baby at home, so having a family to hang out with, and support, takes a lot of time away from all my little side projects. I'll be back one day.

The other thing is that due to these new ECM's the 6th gen cars run, you don't really SEE big gains like you did on the 5th gen, as the factory tune is much more "spot on" than the 5th gens where... The 5th gens had some fudge room, if you will, in the factory tune that allowed you to pick up some nice gains, where is the 6th gens don't allow much if any room, you're really pretty locked in... If you want to see the gains from products, you've got to have a tune to go with it.

[Project_1LT]

Any updates on the ETA?

[PolynesianPowerhouse]

Originally Posted by Project_1LT

Any updates on the ETA?

not as of yet. I talked to will @ overkill last week. theres something in the works, but nothing solid as of yet on a timeline. a couple of things that should be worthwhile