Homepage Garage Wiki Register Social Groups Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
#Camaro6
Go Back   CAMARO6 > CAMARO6.com General Forums > ZL1 Discussions


AWE Tuning


Post Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-29-2021, 01:47 PM   #15
Camaro1973

 
Camaro1973's Avatar
 
Drives: 2019 ZL1
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: NJ
Posts: 1,268
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiqTenExp View Post

I wouldn't run a non ethanol/methanol car much above 22į based on how my car has responded over the past 4 years, that is about where I topped out before methanol on 93 octane.

22 degrees Based on how your car responded as in?


NVM, i see now.. You topped out at 22 degrees on 93 before you added meth, correct?
__________________
815rwhp/760rwtq - 93 | 850rwhp/765rwrq - E40 SAE

Magnuson 2650 90mm upper w/13% lower (9.06)
CSP Big Boy Cam w/32% fuel lobe
Heads done by LME (Full new Valvetrain)
NW 103mm TB
Roto Fab Big Gulp
CSP 2" Headers w/Green GESI Gen 2 Cats
Borla 3" Full Cat Back w/ S-Type
Mighty Mouse Wild Catch Can
Custom Holley Low side Fuel system
Forced Inductions Interchiller w/2 gallon fender tank.

Last edited by Camaro1973; 10-29-2021 at 02:01 PM.
Camaro1973 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2021, 02:00 PM   #16
LiqTenExp

 
LiqTenExp's Avatar
 
Drives: 2017 ZL1
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: NJ
Posts: 764
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camaro1973 View Post
22 degrees Based on how your car responded as in?
Looking at gains/shape of HP curve and knock.

Yes on 93, that is where I stopped. Now with meth I can get to 26+ using the same knock sensor settings, 26 seemed like more than enough!
__________________
2017 Camaro ZL1 Coupe M6 (847whp on Dynojet)
LiqTenExp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2021, 03:40 PM   #17
KingLT1


 
KingLT1's Avatar
 
Drives: 2016 1SS NFG A8
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: 46804
Posts: 5,319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camaro1973 View Post
What? No. Every tune i've looked at with race fuel or high ethanol content their timing has been as high as 24-27.


19-20 Degrees is common on pump 93 for a 2650 and cam/heads, not for race fuels/meth or ethanol.
Doesn't matter you don't need that much timing.

I know of a well respected name in the 6th gen game that just made 1100whp with a D1x @ 198kpa. This is a Heads/Cam/Forged LT1 with LT4 fuel running meth and E47. Made this power on 22 degrees of timing.

ShizzySupra is making over 1k in his 2650 powered SS with LT5 internals and 22 degrees of timing.

Parish made close to 1k with his Turbo L83 swap on 17-18 degrees.


Just because it will take the timing doesn't mean that is where you should run it. If you understand the Virtual Torque tables and see how GM populated them, you find that theses engines were designed to make peak torque around 20-22 degrees. Going 25+ degrees is diminished returns.
__________________
2016 NGM 1SS A8
Options-2SS Leather/NPP
Perf. mods-Whipple 2.9/Fuel System/Flex Fuel/103mm TB/Rotofab Big Gulp/Cat Deletes/Corsa NPP
KingLT1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2021, 03:55 PM   #18
Camaro1973

 
Camaro1973's Avatar
 
Drives: 2019 ZL1
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: NJ
Posts: 1,268
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingLT1 View Post
Doesn't matter you don't need that much timing.

I know of a well respected name in the 6th gen game that just made 1100whp with a D1x @ 198kpa. This is a Heads/Cam/Forged LT1 with LT4 fuel running meth and E47. Made this power on 22 degrees of timing.

ShizzySupra is making over 1k in his 2650 powered SS with LT5 internals and 22 degrees of timing.

Parish made close to 1k with his Turbo L83 swap on 17-18 degrees.


Just because it will take the timing doesn't mean that is where you should run it. If you understand the Virtual Torque tables and see how GM populated them, you find that theses engines were designed to make peak torque around 20-22 degrees. Going 25+ degrees is diminished returns.
We agree to disagree. But thereís 2 posts right above with people running 26 degrees and making more power which is what I see on many
Builds with ethanol/meth/race fuels.

I just donít see how you can take 2 cars with exact same builds and fuel and have the one on 19 degrees making the same as the one with 24. I donít see the magic they are doing to create more power.. unless of course your replacing added timing for boost.
__________________
815rwhp/760rwtq - 93 | 850rwhp/765rwrq - E40 SAE

Magnuson 2650 90mm upper w/13% lower (9.06)
CSP Big Boy Cam w/32% fuel lobe
Heads done by LME (Full new Valvetrain)
NW 103mm TB
Roto Fab Big Gulp
CSP 2" Headers w/Green GESI Gen 2 Cats
Borla 3" Full Cat Back w/ S-Type
Mighty Mouse Wild Catch Can
Custom Holley Low side Fuel system
Forced Inductions Interchiller w/2 gallon fender tank.
Camaro1973 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2021, 05:10 PM   #19
KingLT1


 
KingLT1's Avatar
 
Drives: 2016 1SS NFG A8
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: 46804
Posts: 5,319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camaro1973 View Post
We agree to disagree. But thereís 2 posts right above with people running 26 degrees and making more power which is what I see on many
Builds with ethanol/meth/race fuels.

I just donít see how you can take 2 cars with exact same builds and fuel and have the one on 19 degrees making the same as the one with 24. I donít see the magic they are doing to create more power.. unless of course your replacing added timing for boost.
You are correct..I was thinking LT1's not LT4's with much lower compression. My mistake on that.
__________________
2016 NGM 1SS A8
Options-2SS Leather/NPP
Perf. mods-Whipple 2.9/Fuel System/Flex Fuel/103mm TB/Rotofab Big Gulp/Cat Deletes/Corsa NPP
KingLT1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2021, 06:10 PM   #20
LiqTenExp

 
LiqTenExp's Avatar
 
Drives: 2017 ZL1
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: NJ
Posts: 764
Note I actually asked for 2 more degrees and got closer to 4, got love all the sneaky advance parameters that add up!
__________________
2017 Camaro ZL1 Coupe M6 (847whp on Dynojet)
LiqTenExp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2021, 09:48 AM   #21
radz28
Petro-sexual
 
radz28's Avatar
 
Drives: Ultra-Grin
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Crapramento, Crapifornia
Posts: 14,281
There are, apparently, MANY sneaky parameters in HPTuners that we have yet to see. It sounds like you have a strong combination though.
__________________

'20 ZL1 Black "Fury"
A10, PDR, Exposed CF Extractor
Magnuson Magnum DI TVS2650R / HHP TCM / PLM Heat Exchanger / ZLE Cradle bushings / BMR Chassis-Suspension Stuff / aFe bars / 17" Drag Pack / Diode Dynamics LEDs / ACS Composites Guards / CF Dash / tint / other stuffs
radz28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2021, 11:51 PM   #22
Sickspeedkuwait
 
Sickspeedkuwait's Avatar
 
Drives: '17 ZL1 M6
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Earth
Posts: 108
https://datazap.me/u/a90moe/e50-run-...&zoom=342-1400

E53 mix + Methanol on about 14 pounds of boost

Flex fuel tune added around 3-4 degrees more
__________________
'17 ZL1 M6
8xxwhp Magnuson 2650
Sickspeedkuwait is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2021, 11:57 PM   #23
Camaro1973

 
Camaro1973's Avatar
 
Drives: 2019 ZL1
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: NJ
Posts: 1,268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sickspeedkuwait View Post
https://datazap.me/u/a90moe/e50-run-...&zoom=342-1400

E53 mix + Methanol on about 14 pounds of boost

Flex fuel tune added around 3-4 degrees more

Looks like your at 27 degrees up top, nice... And who said that was too much timing . lol
__________________
815rwhp/760rwtq - 93 | 850rwhp/765rwrq - E40 SAE

Magnuson 2650 90mm upper w/13% lower (9.06)
CSP Big Boy Cam w/32% fuel lobe
Heads done by LME (Full new Valvetrain)
NW 103mm TB
Roto Fab Big Gulp
CSP 2" Headers w/Green GESI Gen 2 Cats
Borla 3" Full Cat Back w/ S-Type
Mighty Mouse Wild Catch Can
Custom Holley Low side Fuel system
Forced Inductions Interchiller w/2 gallon fender tank.
Camaro1973 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2021, 12:22 AM   #24
Sickspeedkuwait
 
Sickspeedkuwait's Avatar
 
Drives: '17 ZL1 M6
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Earth
Posts: 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camaro1973 View Post
Looks like your at 27 degrees up top, nice... And who said that was too much timing . lol
I only saw 22-23 degrees before

Ethanol really woke her up!
__________________
'17 ZL1 M6
8xxwhp Magnuson 2650
Sickspeedkuwait is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2021, 01:26 AM   #25
Camaro1973

 
Camaro1973's Avatar
 
Drives: 2019 ZL1
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: NJ
Posts: 1,268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sickspeedkuwait View Post
I only saw 22-23 degrees before

Ethanol really woke her up!

I just looked at it again... 180F Manifold air temps, holy moly. LOL.


Does Lava come out of your tailpipes?


However, its amazing that even though MAT temps are so high, this is where meth and ethanol really shines. On pump gas with those temps it would be pulling so much timing or knocking till engine explodes.


Only time ive seen temps like 170F, is if im sitting idle for 15 minutes on a day hotter then 90F. If im driving on a 90F day or bit hotter temps linger around 130F to 140F closer I get to 100F ambient.


A 55F day my MAT temps are about 90F


But hey.... At least its a dry heat there
__________________
815rwhp/760rwtq - 93 | 850rwhp/765rwrq - E40 SAE

Magnuson 2650 90mm upper w/13% lower (9.06)
CSP Big Boy Cam w/32% fuel lobe
Heads done by LME (Full new Valvetrain)
NW 103mm TB
Roto Fab Big Gulp
CSP 2" Headers w/Green GESI Gen 2 Cats
Borla 3" Full Cat Back w/ S-Type
Mighty Mouse Wild Catch Can
Custom Holley Low side Fuel system
Forced Inductions Interchiller w/2 gallon fender tank.
Camaro1973 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2021, 04:40 AM   #26
Sickspeedkuwait
 
Sickspeedkuwait's Avatar
 
Drives: '17 ZL1 M6
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Earth
Posts: 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camaro1973 View Post
I just looked at it again... 180F Manifold air temps, holy moly. LOL.


Does Lava come out of your tailpipes?


However, its amazing that even though MAT temps are so high, this is where meth and ethanol really shines. On pump gas with those temps it would be pulling so much timing or knocking till engine explodes.


Only time ive seen temps like 170F, is if im sitting idle for 15 minutes on a day hotter then 90F. If im driving on a 90F day or bit hotter temps linger around 130F to 140F closer I get to 100F ambient.


A 55F day my MAT temps are about 90F


But hey.... At least its a dry heat there
Yes, the ported 1.7 is a hair dryer Only 14 pounds of boost too!

I have a Kong/edelbrock 2650 on the way.. Hopefully it would bring temps down

On pump gas, with similar MAT's it was not bad

https://datazap.me/u/a90moe/track-log-2?log=0&data=11
__________________
'17 ZL1 M6
8xxwhp Magnuson 2650
Sickspeedkuwait is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2021, 09:15 AM   #27
LiqTenExp

 
LiqTenExp's Avatar
 
Drives: 2017 ZL1
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: NJ
Posts: 764
That is warm MAT at 180! Wonder what your IAT Advance parameter was.. it should have been pulling multiple degrees of timing at that temp.

I was in the 120-140 MAT during my runs. My MAT will usually drop 2-4 degees during a pull from my 50/50 meth system.
__________________
2017 Camaro ZL1 Coupe M6 (847whp on Dynojet)
LiqTenExp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2021, 11:18 AM   #28
Camaro1973

 
Camaro1973's Avatar
 
Drives: 2019 ZL1
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: NJ
Posts: 1,268
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiqTenExp View Post
That is warm MAT at 180! Wonder what your IAT Advance parameter was.. it should have been pulling multiple degrees of timing at that temp.

I was in the 120-140 MAT during my runs. My MAT will usually drop 2-4 degees during a pull from my 50/50 meth system.

Sounds like your tuner left the IAT table somewhat stock. 130 is usually the temp area where it pulls on the stock table.

Since heís running 55% E and meth itís quite possible even at those high Temps it wasnít knocking. I saw total knock retard on his log, but didnít see any knock retard or cylinder retard on his log.

Who knows what his knock sensors are set to also.
__________________
815rwhp/760rwtq - 93 | 850rwhp/765rwrq - E40 SAE

Magnuson 2650 90mm upper w/13% lower (9.06)
CSP Big Boy Cam w/32% fuel lobe
Heads done by LME (Full new Valvetrain)
NW 103mm TB
Roto Fab Big Gulp
CSP 2" Headers w/Green GESI Gen 2 Cats
Borla 3" Full Cat Back w/ S-Type
Mighty Mouse Wild Catch Can
Custom Holley Low side Fuel system
Forced Inductions Interchiller w/2 gallon fender tank.
Camaro1973 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Post Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.