[merlin803]

Originally Posted by Whis

Fail #1: Classifying this car as an investment or assuming other people are doing the same.

Really tired of hearing this.

Yea, all I am investing in is my enjoyment and the smiles per dollar ratio is paying back in spades.

If one doesn't get that kind of enjoyment from a car or from driving and it is just something to get you from point a to point b then by all means, get a Toyota.

[buck_dawg_gold]

Where are people getting these ridiculous prices from? When I read things like 46K for a bone stock 2016 SS or I got a brand new 15 SS for 25K it lets me know this was simply a troll post for 5th gen vs 6th gen BS.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

The whole "equipped similarly" thing is irrelevant to the average buyer, folks.

They're not going to care about the "track ready" coolers, etc. I'm sure enthusiasts carefully evaluate these things, but a lot of people when they're looking at a Camaro, Mustang or Challenger aren't looking to race their cars, or track them, or anything like that. They want a good looking car, that gets reasonably good fuel economy, a V8, that is comfortable and is reliable.

With the Mustang's lower price of entry, it's much more tempting. It's a very tired, worn out, overplayed and irrelevant argument to say "well when equipped similarly...".

No, the fact is the price of entry on either V8 Mustang is significantly less than a V8 Camaro 1SS or 2SS. The price of entry on a Mustang in general is less, the price on the mid range models is less.
In the domestic and global market, the Mustang is priced better for a car that on the street and for having a bit of fun on curvy roads is just as fun and capable as the Camaro.

Sorry - I disagree. To the buyer who wants the best car - it is important to compare all equipment that they are interested in purchasing.

That said - if someone just wants a V8 with wheels, then the Camaro is not going to offer that at as low a price as other cars. I'll agree with that point, and perhaps Chevrolet ought to consider offering something like an 'LS' model for the SS.

But that is all you get with those cars: an engine with wheels.

But "overpriced" is far different from "overcontented". And as "tired and overplayed" as you think it is to talk about similar equipment...I find it equally frustrating to hear about how overpriced it is. Because it's not.

[merlin803]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

Sorry - I disagree. To the buyer who wants the best car - it is important to compare all equipment that they are interested in purchasing.

That said - if someone just wants a V8 with wheels, then the Camaro is not going to offer that at as low a price as other cars. I'll agree with that point, and perhaps Chevrolet ought to consider offering something like an 'LS' model for the SS.

But that is all you get with those cars: an engine with wheels.

But "overpriced" is far different from "overcontented". And as "tired and overplayed" as you think it is to talk about similar equipment...I find it equally frustrating to hear about how overpriced it is. Because it's not.

I agree, not over priced at all for what you are getting. Like you said, it is just not the lowest priced option if that is what you are looking for.

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

..

A 2015 2LT automatic Camaro would get you ambient lighting, a HUD, touch screen infotainment system, a smaller yet still usable DIC, and you could get into that for $31,495. Now the closest 2LT for that money is a manual turbo 4 with no ambient lighting, no HUD, nothing. A 2LT V6 automatic with roughly the same equipment is $36,585, a $5,100 jump.


That is where a much, much bigger problem than the SS pricing are.

I agree...and disagree lol.

I agree with you that a the 2LT options can get very pricey very fast (loaded V6 for 40K anyone?) but a 2LT V6 with auto can be had for $33,785. A roughly $2,000 jump, not 5,100. I realize without the lighting package you are missing the HUD, and the spectrum lighting, but its not like the 2LT comes bare bones or something. That's basically all it is missing. I think HUD SHOULD have been standard on the 2LT, but sadly it is not. if you add the expensive lighting package, you are certainly getting several features that a 2015 model wouldn't have had.

But if you compare 1LT models, you can get the 1LT V6 with automatic and RS package for $31,635. I paid around 29,500 for the same setup for the 2010 model I owned. The 6th gen is a MUCH better car for only a 2K more. The 2015 model with the same selection is 30,245....so only $1,500 less.

So as you can see...its not all bad.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

The whole "equipped similarly" thing is irrelevant to the average buyer, folks.

They're not going to care about the "track ready" coolers, etc. I'm sure enthusiasts carefully evaluate these things, but a lot of people when they're looking at a Camaro, Mustang or Challenger aren't looking to race their cars, or track them, or anything like that. They want a good looking car, that gets reasonably good fuel economy, a V8, that is comfortable and is reliable.
With the Mustang's lower price of entry, it's much more tempting. It's a very tired, worn out, overplayed and irrelevant argument to say "well when equipped similarly...". No, the fact is the price of entry on either V8 Mustang is significantly less than a V8 Camaro 1SS or 2SS. The price of entry on a Mustang in general is less, the price on the mid range models is less.
In the domestic and global market, the Mustang is priced better for a car that on the street and for having a bit of fun on curvy roads is just as fun and capable as the Camaro.

A 2015 2LT automatic Camaro would get you ambient lighting, a HUD, touch screen infotainment system, a smaller yet still usable DIC, and you could get into that for $31,495. Now the closest 2LT for that money is a manual turbo 4 with no ambient lighting, no HUD, nothing. A 2LT V6 automatic with roughly the same equipment is $36,585, a $5,100 jump.


That is where a much, much bigger problem than the SS pricing are.

This ^ you pretty much nailed it.

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

Sorry - I disagree. To the buyer who wants the best car - it is important to compare all equipment that they are interested in purchasing.

That said - if someone just wants a V8 with wheels, then the Camaro is not going to offer that at as low a price as other cars. I'll agree with that point, and perhaps Chevrolet ought to consider offering something like an 'LS' model for the SS.

But that is all you get with those cars: an engine with wheels.

But "overpriced" is far different from "overcontented". And as "tired and overplayed" as you think it is to talk about similar equipment...I find it equally frustrating to hear about how overpriced it is. Because it's not.

No he pretty much nailed it. Overcontended = over priced based on direct competitor. Believe it or not there are people who don't care about some of that extra standard stuff on the Camaro. The general public is for a lack of a better word stupid. They aren't going to see things like that as an advantage. they are going to say does it effect the way the car drives while I am sitting in rush hour?


Think of it this way, you got some extra cash in your pocket and you want to splurge and get yourself a nice TV. Say you know nothing about electronics.

Your looking at a Samsung and Sharp, The sharp is say $800 and the Samsung is $1200

The Sharp is a 55" LCD 1080P 120Hz
The Samsung is 55" LED 1080P 240Hz Smart 3D TV - this one from what you may know, has a little better picture has some more features but if your tech challenged, and have no idea what the HZ means, or care if its a Smart TV which one are you going to choose? Are you going to shell out the extra 400 bucks for features you don't even know what they do?

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

...
But "overpriced" is far different from "overcontented". And as "tired and overplayed" as you think it is to talk about similar equipment...I find it equally frustrating to hear about how overpriced it is. Because it's not.

Agree with this....

The whole "tired" similar equipment argument is completely valid, b/c its comparing SIMILAR EQUIPMENT.

Maybe a lot of buyers won't care about that, but it doesn't make it a moot argument, and anyone that looks at similar equipped MSRP of the models will see this.

But yes, those that want the cheaper V8 car may not be looking at the Camaro...which is also important. Honestly, maybe Chevy should offer a V8 model without the RS stuff, and without the track ready equipment. What would that bring the base MSRP down to ($36,300 without destination right?) so maybe would bring that down to $35,000 ish, if even that much??? But how many non-RS SS cars would sell? I think Chevy did the math here and found out those cars did not sell.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369

Price increases are on the order of a 10-20% versus a 5th Gen. The difference in performance on the street is nearly zero. You cannot use the power of a 5th Gen in 99% of driving situations. Yes, a 6th Gen is a better performer on paper, but in the real world, you're paying a huge price premium for an upgraded infotainment system, better cupholders and a more cramped interior.

I think this is the issue moving forward. They keep making these cars faster and faster but you can't appreciate it so why are we paying for it? If they included 10k worth of track time then we are talking.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by HogsFan75

You do realize this is a 2SS you are paying mid 40's for right? It's not a 1LE, a ZL1 or a Z28.

You also realize you can get a base gt350 for this price?

That's all I'm saying about this. I posted my opinion and you don't have to like it.

Besides, the zl1 is announced. Can't we all just get along?

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There is a reason that the sales haven't been great for this 6th Gen and I don't think it has anything to do with performance or looks, it is the pricing it is just too high. You can add all the bells and whistles to the car you want but anything over 42k is ridiculous for Chevy's base performance model. Unfortunately there is no uniqueness or specialty about the SS to justify the price or maintain it's value in the future.

I suspect those who went out and dropped near 50k for their cars are going to be in for a rude awakening when Chevy is forced to offer huge discounts to move the 16s which are presently piling up. If you are interested in a purchase hang in there until Fall and you may see another 20% off campaign.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by newmoon

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is a reason that the sales haven't been great for this 6th Gen and I don't think it has anything to do with performance or looks, it is the pricing it is just too high. You can add all the bells and whistles to the car you want but anything over 42k is ridiculous for Chevy's base performance model. Unfortunately there is no uniqueness or specialty about the SS to justify the price or maintain it's value in the future.

Those who went out and dropped near 50k for their cars are going to be in for a rude awakening when Chevy is forced to offer huge discounts soon to move the 16s which are presently piling up. If you are interested in a purchase hang in there a few more months and you may see another 20% off campaign.

Sadly, I think you are right. Even the dealers sales reps I have spoke to think the Camaro is too expensive. I watched many customers walk in the showroom to check out the new Camaro and they sit in it and ooh and ahh and then they look at the sticker and say holy cow when did a Camaro start costing over 40 grand! And this is a V6. The average buyer can walk over to the Lexus or Infiniti dealer and buy a luxury car for that price and they have attractive lease offers.

The problem is that once used these cars drop in value like a rock. It would cost you less to buy a base Corvette stingray than a Camaro. The Corvettes will hold their value better. If you plan to keep this car and it brings you joy then so be it but be prepared for it to be worth about half of what you paid in just 3 years and about a 1/3 after 5 years.

IMO, the 1SS should have been $35k with an auto and the 2SS $39,900 with an auto. Once you get over that $40k mark the buying process slows down for the average buyer and more options are considered. And you can't say but look at the performance you get because the average buyer can't use the performance on the street.

[Billabongi]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

The whole "equipped similarly" thing is irrelevant to the average buyer, folks.

They're not going to care about the "track ready" coolers, etc. I'm sure enthusiasts carefully evaluate these things, but a lot of people when they're looking at a Camaro, Mustang or Challenger aren't looking to race their cars, or track them, or anything like that. They want a good looking car, that gets reasonably good fuel economy, a V8, that is comfortable and is reliable.
With the Mustang's lower price of entry, it's much more tempting. It's a very tired, worn out, overplayed and irrelevant argument to say "well when equipped similarly...". No, the fact is the price of entry on either V8 Mustang is significantly less than a V8 Camaro 1SS or 2SS. The price of entry on a Mustang in general is less, the price on the mid range models is less.
In the domestic and global market, the Mustang is priced better for a car that on the street and for having a bit of fun on curvy roads is just as fun and capable as the Camaro.

A 2015 2LT automatic Camaro would get you ambient lighting, a HUD, touch screen infotainment system, a smaller yet still usable DIC, and you could get into that for $31,495. Now the closest 2LT for that money is a manual turbo 4 with no ambient lighting, no HUD, nothing. A 2LT V6 automatic with roughly the same equipment is $36,585, a $5,100 jump.


That is where a much, much bigger problem than the SS pricing are.

Glad I'm not the only one to notice this. I have a mostly loaded (no sunroof) 2012 2LT RS and I am very interested in jumping come 2017 50th Anniversary time but pricing out a car to be similar to mine, I'm looking at 36k without HUD or Rear Assist. I really hope they reevaluate the pricing or at least the packages. I'm not paying 36k for a car without HUD nor do I need 95% of the stuff in the $2800 "convenience" package. Add in a guess of 2k for the 50th anniversary package and you're talking 38k for a v6 that's not even loaded.

I love my Camaro and want to move to the new generation but the pricing has me bummed about my chances. The pricing has gone crazy in the v6 range.

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

I think this is the issue moving forward. They keep making these cars faster and faster but you can't appreciate it so why are we paying for it? If they included 10k worth of track time then we are talking.

lol....well this is a whole other issue.

"keep making these cars faster and faster, but you can't appreciate it"

That is on us folks, not the manufacturers. B/c if they don't continue to push the performance bar forward, then we (rightfully or not) get all huffy about it. Think about it. When the 7th gen Camaro comes out (hopefully) if that sucker can't do 3.7 0 - 60 and mid to high 11s with improved handling stock everyone is going to say "well whats the point!???" lol. "I'll just stick with my awesome 6th gen. Suck it 7th gen!"

I think performance at this demographic is going to have to cap out at some point, but also, I don't think its performance (for the most part) that is driving up the costs so much.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by Billabongi

Glad I'm not the only one to notice this. I have a mostly loaded (no sunroof) 2012 2LT RS and I am very interested in jumping come 2017 50th Anniversary time but pricing out a car to be similar to mine, I'm looking at 36k without HUD or Rear Assist. I really hope they reevaluate the pricing or at least the packages. I'm not paying 36k for a car without HUD nor do I need 95% of the stuff in the $2800 "convenience" package. Add in a guess of 2k for the 50th anniversary package and you're talking 38k for a v6 that's not even loaded.

I love my Camaro and want to move to the new generation but the pricing has me bummed about my chances. The pricing has gone crazy in the v6 range.

Agreed and of course the dealer typically only stock loaded up cars to help the profit margins. So, that is what the average buyer sees, a 40k V6 Camaro on the showroom floor.

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by Billabongi

Glad I'm not the only one to notice this. I have a mostly loaded (no sunroof) 2012 2LT RS and I am very interested in jumping come 2017 50th Anniversary time but pricing out a car to be similar to mine, I'm looking at 36k without HUD or Rear Assist. I really hope they reevaluate the pricing or at least the packages. I'm not paying 36k for a car without HUD nor do I need 95% of the stuff in the $2800 "convenience" package. Add in a guess of 2k for the 50th anniversary package and you're talking 38k for a v6 that's not even loaded.

I love my Camaro and want to move to the new generation but the pricing has me bummed about my chances. The pricing has gone crazy in the v6 range.

Again, I think if Chevy just included the HUD in the 2LT, it would make potential 2LT buyers feel much better. People that want the HUD really seem to WANT IT very much lol but not for $2,800. Increase the cost another 250 - 500 dollars and make HUD standard.