[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

Weather or not I can afford it is irrelevant to to fact that GM, is acting like some bigshot automaker, that demands HIGH dollar for their subpar products, dealers and infrastructure. It is offensive. And we are going to bail their dumbasses out again.

Make the products that sell and then offer the money grabs. They are clearly doing it bassackwards.

GM sold 642,250 units in Q1 of this year. Clearly they don't have an issue moving product and considering retail sales were up 19%, individual consumers don't have an issue buying the products either. GM's average transaction price for Q1 also set a record high at $40,353, so consumers don't seem to mind paying "HIGH dollar" for GM products.



You're over here acting like two low volume niche products (and for that matter, the top limited edition trims of those low volume niche products) are the only vehicles GM will sell moving forward when that clearly is not the case. GM has been making a ton of products that sell. I think they're in a good position now to offer a few "money grabs." If this was 2009 and the entire auto industry was in turmoil plus the economy in recession, then I would absolutely agree that it's not the time to be producing vehicles like this, but that was 12 years ago and GM is clearly in a much better, more stable position.



If you personally don't like the products, then by all means go to another manufacturer. Nobody's holding a gun to your head demanding you buy a GM vehicle. But inferring that GM isn't making products that sell is ridiculous, and considering GM's current Wall Street performance and recent financial results, I don't think you need to worry about bailing them out any time soon.

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

GM sold 642,250 units in Q1 of this year. Clearly they don't have an issue moving product and considering retail sales were up 19%, individual consumers don't have an issue buying the products either. GM's average transaction price for Q1 also set a record high at $40,353, so consumers don't seem to mind paying "HIGH dollar" for GM products.



You're over here acting like two low volume niche products (and for that matter, the top limited edition trims of those low volume niche products) are the only vehicles GM will sell moving forward when that clearly is not the case. GM has been making a ton of products that sell. I think they're in a good position now to offer a few "money grabs." If this was 2009 and the entire auto industry was in turmoil plus the economy in recession, then I would absolutely agree that it's not the time to be producing vehicles like this, but that was 12 years ago and GM is clearly in a much better, more stable position.



If you personally don't like the products, then by all means go to another manufacturer. Nobody's holding a gun to your head demanding you buy a GM vehicle. But inferring that GM isn't making products that sell is ridiculous, and considering GM's current Wall Street performance and recent financial results, I don't think you need to worry about bailing them out any time soon.

I did not say they do not produce products that do not sell. No need to get your panties in a bunch. I come from a family of GM. My opinion is that they are not going about this electrification the correct way.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

I did not say they do not produce products that do not sell. No need to get your panties in a bunch. I come from a family of GM. My opinion is that they are not going about this electrification the correct way.

I absolutely agree that if we're going to do EVs, we need affordable ones.



The problem is if tomorrow GM was like "lol we were just kidding about that $80-100k thing, Hummer EVs for $30k!" people would be lining up at GMC dealers fighting each other to get their names on the list, but GM would lose such a massive amount of money on each one that they absolutely would need another bailout.



The tech just isn't at a price point where GM can sell it at a "normal" price with the features consumers expect and not lose a ton of money. I mean yes, GM builds a sub $10k EV in China but it's essentially the equivalent of a beefed-up golf cart.



Back when Volt launched for 2011 it was a $40k car and GM was selling it at a loss. Fast forward to now, the 2022 Bolt EV will start at $32k. No word on how bad the losses are, if any, on each one sold, but if I had to guess it's much better now. The pricing is coming down for sure but it hasn't been and won't be an overnight thing. Think about every new tech thing that's come available, at one point a 32 inch flat screen TV cost a fortune, now you can go to Walmart and get a crappy one for maybe $150?

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

I did not say they do not produce products that do not sell. No need to get your panties in a bunch. I come from a family of GM. My opinion is that they are not going about this electrification the correct way.

I see what you are saying Farmer. I'd love to see some every person attainable EVs that are actually nice to look at. We're getting closer.

But everyone that is doing full EVs these days does it that way. Look at Tesla. Start off with a high dollar, low volume sports car. Then went to a higher dollar, slightly better low volume sedan...and over time made money on those niche products while costs of the technology continuously came down, and now they are producing the model 3...which is much closer to that car that most people can afford (not there yet).

GM is doing the same here with the Ultium platform. Start off high with niche and attention grabbing products. Sell them, test and prove the platform and work their way down.

That doesn't mean I don't have a couple of gripes with the new Hummer. I'm OK with them offering up the mega bucks version first. But damn...to have to make us wait 2 or 3 years until the "entry" level version finally is available is a real kick in the pants. It sucks.

When it comes time for the Silverado EV to drop...and assuming they offer various drivetrain levels, such as 2 motor with standard battery, or 2 motor with long range battery, or 3 motor...blah blah blah. I really hope that they won't force everyone to get an LTZ+ trim to be able to get the long range battery. That's just dumb. I get why they do it (so they can change you more since you feel like your getting more features) but this is a truck. Many people just want a basic to mid-level truck, but they would also like to have the power, or the extra range. If GM wants people to take the Silverado EV seriously, they had better offer the best range option in the work truck...eventually.