E85 or E90 - Page 2

Booher · 10-04-2019, 07:36 PM

Mine is straight from the manufacturer called ignite. It's some of the best fuel you can buy I'm told, so it is pure, not like from a pump, and costs alot more than pump too lol. I was going to keep the 90 and cut it, but that's more math to add to the equation and swapping it out for 85 is simpler in my eyes. A drum of the ignite 90 was $650 a drum, they only ship to commercial addresses and usually need to buy in bulk. i set up a deal where someone in my town ordered a few drums, and he threw an extra one on there for me. The guy that ordered his made some money off of me, but what can you do. E85 is only $50 a drum cheaper. Anyways, the jetski world finals are in town and I was literally the only guy in town with e90, so they called me and asked if they could have it and replace it next week. I couldn't say no, he was from out of the country and had no fuel. So I can request either drum, sounds like I'm gonna request 85 and maybe get a discount on another drum to offset the extra money I put towards the e90. The guy trying to explain it to me was a jetski racer and not the actual tuner or fuel supplier, so I cant expect him to know exactly why. Thank you for the little lesson in it, learn something every day!

Booher · 10-04-2019, 07:38 PM

Keep in mind, that's paying for freight, and the barrel. I tried so hard to get e85 to my location and this was literally the last option. It is illegal to travel with more than 8 gallons of gas unless you have a permit. Unlikely to get caught, but, if you do, its $10,000 fine.

Booher · 10-07-2019, 04:43 PM

Got it all swapped out, I appreciate all of the help everyone, saved me some frustrations. I cant wait to put it in, gonna start putting all the bolt ons on saturday and hope it will be ready to tune by monday. I have the before dyno to compare as well, and I'm eager to see the gains.

cmitchell17 · 10-08-2019, 10:10 PM

What about the fact that you run so much richer with ethanol? I know everyone says you don't need to go higher than E60, but the richer you run, the more mass of fuel you can burn, the more energy you release, and more power you make. Same idea with nitromethane, except the stoich I think is more like 2 to 1, and nitromethane actually has significant less energy per mass than other fuels, but it's completely outweighed by the fact that you can inject a lot more fuel per a given amount of air. Of course everything is not a simple linear relationship and of course we are talking about negligible differences here.

Also I have never been able to locate good legitimate research info on optimal timing with ethanol. Looking at the stock GM maps for alcohol adjustment leaves you even more confused, I am thinking that more timing for ethanol may not always be the answer?

parish8 · 10-09-2019, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmitchell17

What about the fact that you run so much richer with ethanol? I know everyone says you don't need to go higher than E60, but the richer you run, the more mass of fuel you can burn, the more energy you release, and more power you make. Same idea with nitromethane, except the stoich I think is more like 2 to 1, and nitromethane actually has significant less energy per mass than other fuels, but it's completely outweighed by the fact that you can inject a lot more fuel per a given amount of air. Of course everything is not a simple linear relationship and of course we are talking about negligible differences here.

Also I have never been able to locate good legitimate research info on optimal timing with ethanol. Looking at the stock GM maps for alcohol adjustment leaves you even more confused, I am thinking that more timing for ethanol may not always be the answer?

I have similar questions. The main reason for running ethanol for most people is the added octane. I can see where e60 might cover the octane requirements for most set ups. The part I don’t get is why wouldn’t e98 or e85 make at least a little more power than e60. The fuel carries some of its own oxygen and my understanding is this is why it make more power even NA than normal gas. If e60 makes more power than e0 then it seems like e98 would make more power than e60. I am talking NA set up where you didn’t even need the extra octane in the first place.

As far as timing I don’t run any more at wot and high boost than I would on most race gas. Any time I have gotten aggressive with timing I hurt something. Now I just leave it at a fairly low number and turn up the boost if I want to go faster. 16-17deg is as high as I go.

KingLT1 · 10-09-2019, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmitchell17

What about the fact that you run so much richer with ethanol? I know everyone says you don't need to go higher than E60, but the richer you run, the more mass of fuel you can burn, the more energy you release, and more power you make. Same idea with nitromethane, except the stoich I think is more like 2 to 1, and nitromethane actually has significant less energy per mass than other fuels, but it's completely outweighed by the fact that you can inject a lot more fuel per a given amount of air. Of course everything is not a simple linear relationship and of course we are talking about negligible differences here.

Also I have never been able to locate good legitimate research info on optimal timing with ethanol. Looking at the stock GM maps for alcohol adjustment leaves you even more confused, I am thinking that more timing for ethanol may not always be the answer?

You don't really run richer, you inject more volume to equal the same burn rate as pump gas, but the AFR for max power isn't a lot different. Ethanol does have a much wider tuning window and allows you to run a tad leaner if need be.

More timing is definitely one of the perks along with the ability to run more compression. On a gen 5 LT1 you should be able to add 4-5 degrees more timing over your base. I was running 29-30 degrees when NA.

Booher · 10-09-2019, 04:09 PM

I wish I knew more to answer those questions, they are good ones. All I know, on ignites website for ignite redline, it says it's best for engines with a compression of 14:1 or higher, that's what made me question it. I thought the same as well about more ethanol more power, but from more and more research it says different. Basically, motor isnt built just right for that higher ethanol content, so you cant take full advantage of it maybe?

10-04-2019, 07:36 PM	#15
Booher Drives: 2019 zl1 6 speed Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Lake Havasu Arizona Posts: 977	Mine is straight from the manufacturer called ignite. It's some of the best fuel you can buy I'm told, so it is pure, not like from a pump, and costs alot more than pump too lol. I was going to keep the 90 and cut it, but that's more math to add to the equation and swapping it out for 85 is simpler in my eyes. A drum of the ignite 90 was $650 a drum, they only ship to commercial addresses and usually need to buy in bulk. i set up a deal where someone in my town ordered a few drums, and he threw an extra one on there for me. The guy that ordered his made some money off of me, but what can you do. E85 is only $50 a drum cheaper. Anyways, the jetski world finals are in town and I was literally the only guy in town with e90, so they called me and asked if they could have it and replace it next week. I couldn't say no, he was from out of the country and had no fuel. So I can request either drum, sounds like I'm gonna request 85 and maybe get a discount on another drum to offset the extra money I put towards the e90. The guy trying to explain it to me was a jetski racer and not the actual tuner or fuel supplier, so I cant expect him to know exactly why. Thank you for the little lesson in it, learn something every day! Last edited by Booher; 10-04-2019 at 08:22 PM.

10-07-2019, 04:43 PM	#17
Booher Drives: 2019 zl1 6 speed Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Lake Havasu Arizona Posts: 977	Got it all swapped out, I appreciate all of the help everyone, saved me some frustrations. I cant wait to put it in, gonna start putting all the bolt ons on saturday and hope it will be ready to tune by monday. I have the before dyno to compare as well, and I'm eager to see the gains. Attached Images

10-04-2019, 07:38 PM	#16
Booher Drives: 2019 zl1 6 speed Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Lake Havasu Arizona Posts: 977	Keep in mind, that's paying for freight, and the barrel. I tried so hard to get e85 to my location and this was literally the last option. It is illegal to travel with more than 8 gallons of gas unless you have a permit. Unlikely to get caught, but, if you do, its $10,000 fine.

10-08-2019, 10:10 PM	#18
cmitchell17 Drives: 17 2SS, 8L90, Cam, Heads, E85 Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: US Posts: 1,200	What about the fact that you run so much richer with ethanol? I know everyone says you don't need to go higher than E60, but the richer you run, the more mass of fuel you can burn, the more energy you release, and more power you make. Same idea with nitromethane, except the stoich I think is more like 2 to 1, and nitromethane actually has significant less energy per mass than other fuels, but it's completely outweighed by the fact that you can inject a lot more fuel per a given amount of air. Of course everything is not a simple linear relationship and of course we are talking about negligible differences here. Also I have never been able to locate good legitimate research info on optimal timing with ethanol. Looking at the stock GM maps for alcohol adjustment leaves you even more confused, I am thinking that more timing for ethanol may not always be the answer?

10-09-2019, 04:09 PM	#21
Booher Drives: 2019 zl1 6 speed Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Lake Havasu Arizona Posts: 977	I wish I knew more to answer those questions, they are good ones. All I know, on ignites website for ignite redline, it says it's best for engines with a compression of 14:1 or higher, that's what made me question it. I thought the same as well about more ethanol more power, but from more and more research it says different. Basically, motor isnt built just right for that higher ethanol content, so you cant take full advantage of it maybe?

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