SS 1LE -> ZL1: Do you notice the extra weight?

Calubi · 05-17-2019, 06:39 PM

Has anyone here gone from an SS 1LE to a ZL1? I've been seriously considering going from an SS 1LE to a ZL1 A10 (non-1LE), but I'm a bit concerned about the extra weight. The curb weight seems to be about 300 lbs heavily. Do you "feel" the extra weight in daily driving and on track? Or is it as nimble as the SS 1LE?

TRZ06 · 05-17-2019, 11:25 PM

I have no first hand experience, but I have read here in random threads that the ZL1 is a little less nimble with a little less aggressive front turn-in/grip because all that extra weight is over the front axle.

MatthewAMEL · 05-18-2019, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRZ06

I have no first hand experience, but I have read here in random threads that the ZL1 is a little less nimble with a little less aggressive front turn-in/grip because all that extra weight is over the front axle.

Agreed. Not very noticeable on a road course...can be a BIG difference at AutoX.

Osbornsm · 05-24-2019, 09:38 AM

I'm going to go ahead and wager a guess that any appreciable weight gain will be offset by the additional 200 ft/lbs.

TRZ06 · 05-24-2019, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osbornsm

I'm going to go ahead and wager a guess that any appreciable weight gain will be offset by the additional 200 ft/lbs.

For acceleration, sure, but not for handling (especially front-end turn-in and nimbleness)

Tim M · 05-24-2019, 01:59 PM

I think in the big scheme of things - few people will notice - the serious ones. I can't feel the difference with a passenger or not.

I'd guess the suspension firmness/responsiveness between the SS 1LE and the ZL1 non-1LE will be much more pronounced.

TrackClub · 05-24-2019, 06:37 PM

Officially both cars have the same weight distrubution (SS 1le and ZL1) but not sure if it applies equally to M6 and A10. The latter is a bit faster on a road course (maybe not always) so cant really be a pig in corners or it would be slower. It seems a few guys flog A10s at COTA and log impressive laps having bags of fun...

Personally i dont really notice much difference having a passenger and even managed a PB on a twisty, non HP track with one in a right seat. Go figure

TRZ06 · 05-24-2019, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Officially both cars have the same weight distrubution (SS 1le and ZL1) but not sure if it applies equally to M6 and A10. The latter is a bit faster on a road course (maybe not always) so cant really be a pig in corners or it would be slower. It seems a few guys flog A10s at COTA and log impressive laps having bags of fun...

Personally i dont really notice much difference having a passenger and even managed a PB on a twisty, non HP track with one in a right seat. Go figure

How can that be?

How much does the Supercharge weigh, that all sits over the front axle. Where are they putting extra weight into the rear at to counter the supercharger weight?

TrackClub · 05-24-2019, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRZ06

How can that be?

How much does the Supercharge weigh, that all sits over the front axle. Where are they putting extra weight into the rear at to counter the supercharger weight?

Note the M6 is only 136lb heavier than SS 1le. A10 is 197lb heavier. How it all distributes i have no idea.
But both cars have 54/46 ratio. Pretty sure GM is not fibbing here

cbr1100xx · 05-24-2019, 07:23 PM

I'm sure if you drove them back to back on the same twisty road the the 1LE would feel a bit more tossable. How much more and enough to make you want the 1LE instead, that would be an individual choice.

TrackClub · 05-24-2019, 09:16 PM

Keep in mind, ZL1 has a wider F track as far as i recall, plus it may have a higher rake, its ediff has a different calibration etc, all of which could very well make it as responsive. Will it feel different? For sure, as corner entry speeds will be much higher. So an overall experience will feel different. Ive watched Chevy vid of ZL1 A10 at the Ring many times and the car seems to take this circuit like a champ with driver not even breaking a sweat on street G3 tires.

Another data point is this: i never start a stint with a full tank, because my car is much more responsive and capable of faster laps, as the fuel burns off and the rear gets lighter.

Food for thought, that's all, as i have not had a chance to drive a ZL1 yet, but this may happen in July, if my track friend let's me

I will be getting a new Camaro next year and have to decide on a model and an M6 ZL1 is defo on the list together with another SS 1LE of course.

Bosse'sBoss · 05-26-2019, 06:19 AM

Is there any actual ZL1 owner who previously owned a 6th gen ZL1 who can compare both cars performance at the track? Which one do you preferred at the track?

seanblurr · 05-26-2019, 11:43 AM

I've had a 17' SS 1LE and now own an 18' ZL1 1LE. Both cars do an incredible job of hiding their size and weight. When you drive a Camaro exclusively on track, you really do forget you are in a near 4000lb car. I only really did notice the size of the Camaro after swapping back and forth between my ZLE and Miata at the same track event.

Now, when comparing the two Camaro's on track, is there a difference? Hell yeah, there is a difference. It's not the weight though.

The SS1LE is an absolute street-track animal. The ability to cruise to the race track in "comfort" mode, swap to "race" on track, out-lap race-prepped cars, and then return home in a nice plush ride is an incredible feeling. The SS 1LE is no joke on track.

You can tell it is a street car though. Has a slight bit of understeer tuned in out of the box, safer that way. Brakes can't entirely keep up with a heavy braking track and the tires would get a tad squishy later in a session. Nothing wrong about this though, it is a street car.

The ZLE is an entirely different beast. It is mad. It eats up the tarmac and spits it out at the GT3 RS you just passed. The first thing I noticed was how well balanced and neutral it was compared to the SS. There was no understeer, it was planted and it turned where I wanted it to. Everything about the car is 5 steps above what the SS was on track. You don't notice any extra weight, what you notice is the insane levels of grip, the neutrality of the chassis, and the 200 more hp. If you are a talented driver at the average track day you will no doubt be the fastest car on track. Which brings me to my next point.

You might not want to be.

I fight traffic all day, I hardly get any clean claps and some of the closing speeds I encounter are downright dangerous. I didn't have this problem in the SS. It was still arguably one of the faster cars on track of the day, but it wasn't too fast. You passed people, and you got passed. It was just more of an average car that fell into a normal track day a bit better.

TrackClub · 05-27-2019, 01:19 AM

Well Sean, you dont post here a ton anymore, but when you do it is words of wisdom!

You bring up an issue of fun-o-meter vs just raw speed, which not many folks talk about. Well, maybe Cem did and went back to a Miata

Somehow we all tend to equate having more fun with more speed, but clearly it ain't really so.

Interestingly, the reverse is true as well. I went to the Glen last year to better my PB of 2.12 flat. Advanced solo lapping. Two groups: fast and faster. Obviously i signed up for "faster". But it was a big mistake, as i was surrounded by uber exotics and race cars on slicks. I drove in my mirrors and as opposed to pushing, i found myself lifting to facilitate passes. And the closing rates were ridiculous. And it was zero fun and outright stressful. So i stepped down to the other group the very next session. I was one of the faster cars, but i had to work for it. Never broke my PB because it was way too busy (my excuse anyway). But i had bags of fun!

This brings me to a ZL1 (sans 1LE). Ive never driven one, but i suspect it should feel pretty similar to an SS 1LE except for higher speed on straights? And of course a different experience in corner entries. Same tires, same suspension, etc. And as such, id guess it would be a good step up. Stock for stock.

But, on the other hand, getting a second set of rims with slicks surely transforms an SS 1LE into a different experience as well. For a fraction of cost. I am still at awe with Provoste's 2:04 at the Glen (on slicks). Flat out thru the esses. Holy crap batman! Could a stock ZL1 equal that pace? Maybe? Would it be more difficult to accomplish it (driver skill wise)? Probably?

I am getting a new Camaro next season, so i am in the same dilemma as the OP. But if GM sticks a new C8 LT2 in an SS with a bit more power - the decision will be an easy one

Track on bud and thanks for posting your excellent perspective. Very helpful. Thank you!

05-17-2019, 06:39 PM	#1
Calubi Drives: 2017 1SS 1LE Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Ohio Posts: 127	SS 1LE -> ZL1: Do you notice the extra weight? Has anyone here gone from an SS 1LE to a ZL1? I've been seriously considering going from an SS 1LE to a ZL1 A10 (non-1LE), but I'm a bit concerned about the extra weight. The curb weight seems to be about 300 lbs heavily. Do you "feel" the extra weight in daily driving and on track? Or is it as nimble as the SS 1LE? __________________ 2017 Camaro 1SS 1LE - Stock for now 2015 VW Golf R DSG - GIAC ECU/TCU tune

05-17-2019, 11:25 PM	#2
TRZ06 Drives: 22' Porsche PDK GT4 Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Bay Area Posts: 2,013	I have no first hand experience, but I have read here in random threads that the ZL1 is a little less nimble with a little less aggressive front turn-in/grip because all that extra weight is over the front axle. __________________ Current: 22' Porsche PDK GT4 (MCS 2-way remote dampers) Previous: 18' NFG 2SS *1LE* (ZL1 1LE solid rear cradle bushings & Corsa Exhaust) 16' F80 M3 (Ohlin R/T Coilovers) 13' Audi TTRS (APR Stage 1, MSS Springs) 09' C6 Z06 08' E90 M3 06' 335i (KW V2 Coilovers) 03' C5 Z06

05-24-2019, 09:38 AM	#4
Osbornsm Drives: 2018 SS 1LE Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Illinois Posts: 614 View My Garage	I'm going to go ahead and wager a guess that any appreciable weight gain will be offset by the additional 200 ft/lbs. __________________ 2018 Camaro SS 1LE - 2011 370z - 2004 VW R32 - 2000 Civic Si Mods: Rotofab, Nick Williams 103mm TB, MSD IM, Kooks 1 7/8 Results: 470 hp / 447 tq

05-24-2019, 01:59 PM	#6
Tim M Drives: 2018 Camaro SS 1LE Join Date: Jul 2018 Location: Stuttgart, Germany Posts: 807	I think in the big scheme of things - few people will notice - the serious ones. I can't feel the difference with a passenger or not. I'd guess the suspension firmness/responsiveness between the SS 1LE and the ZL1 non-1LE will be much more pronounced. __________________ 2018 SS 1LE German Based Nurburgring Visit #19 Ring Laps: 77

05-26-2019, 06:19 AM	#12
Bosse'sBoss Drives: '16 Camaro SS 6 spd manual transm. Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: RGV Texas Posts: 1,463	Is there any actual ZL1 owner who previously owned a 6th gen ZL1 who can compare both cars performance at the track? Which one do you preferred at the track? __________________ '16 Camaro SS Prior cars: '14 Corvette C7 Stingray Z51 '14 Camaro ZL1 w/. Recaro seats '11 Mustang GT 5.0 w. track package '02 Porsche 911 Carrera '05 Infiniti G35 coupe sport

05-24-2019, 06:37 PM	#7
TrackClub Drives: 2020 SS 1LE (previous: 2017 SS 1LE) Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Canada, eh! Posts: 5,091	Officially both cars have the same weight distrubution (SS 1le and ZL1) but not sure if it applies equally to M6 and A10. The latter is a bit faster on a road course (maybe not always) so cant really be a pig in corners or it would be slower. It seems a few guys flog A10s at COTA and log impressive laps having bags of fun... Personally i dont really notice much difference having a passenger and even managed a PB on a twisty, non HP track with one in a right seat. Go figure

05-24-2019, 07:23 PM	#10
cbr1100xx Account Suspended Drives: '14 Jetta 1.8, '19 1SS Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: San Diego Posts: 886	I'm sure if you drove them back to back on the same twisty road the the 1LE would feel a bit more tossable. How much more and enough to make you want the 1LE instead, that would be an individual choice.

05-24-2019, 09:16 PM	#11
TrackClub Drives: 2020 SS 1LE (previous: 2017 SS 1LE) Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Canada, eh! Posts: 5,091	Keep in mind, ZL1 has a wider F track as far as i recall, plus it may have a higher rake, its ediff has a different calibration etc, all of which could very well make it as responsive. Will it feel different? For sure, as corner entry speeds will be much higher. So an overall experience will feel different. Ive watched Chevy vid of ZL1 A10 at the Ring many times and the car seems to take this circuit like a champ with driver not even breaking a sweat on street G3 tires. Another data point is this: i never start a stint with a full tank, because my car is much more responsive and capable of faster laps, as the fuel burns off and the rear gets lighter. Food for thought, that's all, as i have not had a chance to drive a ZL1 yet, but this may happen in July, if my track friend let's me I will be getting a new Camaro next year and have to decide on a model and an M6 ZL1 is defo on the list together with another SS 1LE of course.

05-26-2019, 11:43 AM	#13
seanblurr Drives: ZL1 1LE Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: California Posts: 1,297	I've had a 17' SS 1LE and now own an 18' ZL1 1LE. Both cars do an incredible job of hiding their size and weight. When you drive a Camaro exclusively on track, you really do forget you are in a near 4000lb car. I only really did notice the size of the Camaro after swapping back and forth between my ZLE and Miata at the same track event. Now, when comparing the two Camaro's on track, is there a difference? Hell yeah, there is a difference. It's not the weight though. The SS1LE is an absolute street-track animal. The ability to cruise to the race track in "comfort" mode, swap to "race" on track, out-lap race-prepped cars, and then return home in a nice plush ride is an incredible feeling. The SS 1LE is no joke on track. You can tell it is a street car though. Has a slight bit of understeer tuned in out of the box, safer that way. Brakes can't entirely keep up with a heavy braking track and the tires would get a tad squishy later in a session. Nothing wrong about this though, it is a street car. The ZLE is an entirely different beast. It is mad. It eats up the tarmac and spits it out at the GT3 RS you just passed. The first thing I noticed was how well balanced and neutral it was compared to the SS. There was no understeer, it was planted and it turned where I wanted it to. Everything about the car is 5 steps above what the SS was on track. You don't notice any extra weight, what you notice is the insane levels of grip, the neutrality of the chassis, and the 200 more hp. If you are a talented driver at the average track day you will no doubt be the fastest car on track. Which brings me to my next point. You might not want to be. I fight traffic all day, I hardly get any clean claps and some of the closing speeds I encounter are downright dangerous. I didn't have this problem in the SS. It was still arguably one of the faster cars on track of the day, but it wasn't too fast. You passed people, and you got passed. It was just more of an average car that fell into a normal track day a bit better. __________________

05-27-2019, 01:19 AM	#14
TrackClub Drives: 2020 SS 1LE (previous: 2017 SS 1LE) Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Canada, eh! Posts: 5,091	Well Sean, you dont post here a ton anymore, but when you do it is words of wisdom! You bring up an issue of fun-o-meter vs just raw speed, which not many folks talk about. Well, maybe Cem did and went back to a Miata Somehow we all tend to equate having more fun with more speed, but clearly it ain't really so. Interestingly, the reverse is true as well. I went to the Glen last year to better my PB of 2.12 flat. Advanced solo lapping. Two groups: fast and faster. Obviously i signed up for "faster". But it was a big mistake, as i was surrounded by uber exotics and race cars on slicks. I drove in my mirrors and as opposed to pushing, i found myself lifting to facilitate passes. And the closing rates were ridiculous. And it was zero fun and outright stressful. So i stepped down to the other group the very next session. I was one of the faster cars, but i had to work for it. Never broke my PB because it was way too busy (my excuse anyway). But i had bags of fun! This brings me to a ZL1 (sans 1LE). Ive never driven one, but i suspect it should feel pretty similar to an SS 1LE except for higher speed on straights? And of course a different experience in corner entries. Same tires, same suspension, etc. And as such, id guess it would be a good step up. Stock for stock. But, on the other hand, getting a second set of rims with slicks surely transforms an SS 1LE into a different experience as well. For a fraction of cost. I am still at awe with Provoste's 2:04 at the Glen (on slicks). Flat out thru the esses. Holy crap batman! Could a stock ZL1 equal that pace? Maybe? Would it be more difficult to accomplish it (driver skill wise)? Probably? I am getting a new Camaro next season, so i am in the same dilemma as the OP. But if GM sticks a new C8 LT2 in an SS with a bit more power - the decision will be an easy one Track on bud and thanks for posting your excellent perspective. Very helpful. Thank you!

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