[mkorgan]

Has to go on the Corvette first. Right? I mean...it has to....right??? (Sarcasm intended).

[newb]

Originally Posted by mkorgan

Has to go on the Corvette first. Right? I mean...it has to....right??? (Sarcasm intended).

And since they haven't been seen before it isn't possible...

[HumanWiki]

Originally Posted by Raven87

Very nice! I'm looking at a Hyper Blue 2SS myself. Any issues with the white interior parts and keeping them clean?

Originally Posted by clanky

Wanting to know if it's a lot of extra work to keep the white interior clean. I want it, but I have kids and I get dirty from my job sooo.. yeah. Awesome stripes though!

Thanks.

Thus far, it hasn't been bad. The seat bottom started to discolor a little bit, but I wiped it off with some cleaner and it's fine. From what I've seen, it's plastic coated, so it's not as easy to stain.

Also, I don't have pets or kids and I'm pretty clean when I get in the car.. So your mileage may vary.

[DenverTaco07]

What does a good high performance wheel go for now? I mean the upgrade on the Camaro is $2000.00, so that's $500 each wheel.

I would think for them to be something more mainstream, they will need to get supply chain optimized for say a retail of $800 to $1000? Would some of you spring for a $4K wheel option on a ZL1? I'd consider it, but not at $15K.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by BradfordCamaro

Saving 35lbs ??
You can do that by switching to 19" wheels and picking the righy rubber.

Carbon Revolution (the company mentioned in the article) focuses on 19" wheels. I guess they know the same thing that you do: that 19's are lighter than 20's.

And I'm pretty sure that any tire that can be fitted on a 19" forged aluminum wheel of a particular width will also fit on the same size carbon wheel.

[DGthe3]

As for the price of carbon fibre dropping due to increased usage ... don't count on it.

The primary reason for just about any technology's price to go down with time is because there is less and less R&D to pay for with something. Once somebody has figured out how to make something the first time, everybody else can just copy it with minimal effort. After that, its largely a matter of refining the processes to make it faster/cheaper/easier. Those refinements take a lot less effort, but they tend to yield only marginal improvements.

The thing with carbon fibre is that the stuff is fairly mature already. A lot older than VCRs (or Beta). It was invented in the late 1950s, and became a usable material in the 1960s. Its simply a very expensive material to work with. Both in straight up material cost and manufacturing cost. Producing raw carbon fibre is a fairly complex process to start with, and then to turn it into anything useful typically requires either a lot of human effort or absurdly complex machinery. And when you're done, there is a decent chance that whatever you've made needs to be tossed due to flaws. All the time and effort poured into it is now worth exactly nothing. Can't even melt it down to recover the material cost like you could with steel or aluminum.

Will the cost come down? Sure, just not fast enough to make it affordable for the foreseeable future. If after half a century of effort to make it cheaper its still very expensive, what do you think the odds are that its going to come down substantially any time soon? Somebody could have made a radical breakthrough this morning for all I know ... but I wouldn't count on it.

[detltu]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

As for the price of carbon fibre dropping due to increased usage ... don't count on it.

The primary reason for just about any technology's price to go down with time is because there is less and less R&D to pay for with something. Once somebody has figured out how to make something the first time, everybody else can just copy it with minimal effort. After that, its largely a matter of refining the processes to make it faster/cheaper/easier. Those refinements take a lot less effort, but they tend to yield only marginal improvements.

The thing with carbon fibre is that the stuff is fairly mature already. A lot older than VCRs (or Beta). It was invented in the late 1950s, and became a usable material in the 1960s. Its simply a very expensive material to work with. Both in straight up material cost and manufacturing cost. Producing raw carbon fibre is a fairly complex process to start with, and then to turn it into anything useful typically requires either a lot of human effort or absurdly complex machinery. And when you're done, there is a decent chance that whatever you've made needs to be tossed due to flaws. All the time and effort poured into it is now worth exactly nothing. Can't even melt it down to recover the material cost like you could with steel or aluminum.

Will the cost come down? Sure, just not fast enough to make it affordable for the foreseeable future. If after half a century of effort to make it cheaper its still very expensive, what do you think the odds are that its going to come down substantially any time soon? Somebody could have made a radical breakthrough this morning for all I know ... but I wouldn't count on it.

I agree that there are barriers to how low the material costs can go, but the processing is where the real savings are. There have been major advances in the last 10-15 years in the processing of carbon fiber. The biggest areas being reduction in manual labor required, and consistency of finish.

The two underlined items above are the major areas for savings and they are being realized. The machines are complex, but that complexity is getting more affordable all the time.

[newb]

Originally Posted by detltu

I agree that there are barriers to how low the material costs can go, but the processing is where the real savings are. There have been major advances in the last 10-15 years in the processing of carbon fiber. The biggest areas being reduction in manual labor required, and consistency of finish.

The two underlined items above are the major areas for savings and they are being realized. The machines are complex, but that complexity is getting more affordable all the time.

The other unmentioned variable is intended finish. There are two different "levels" of carbon fiber. Exposed weave and covered. Most uses to date have had some intent of exposed weave which requires uniform color, shape, and texture. Covered or painted CF can be much lower quality. That is where the price savings will be. Once the manufacture process is automated more for the covered weave, the price will drop. How long that will take is anyone's guess

[Raven87]

Originally Posted by detltu

I agree that there are barriers to how low the material costs can go, but the processing is where the real savings are. There have been major advances in the last 10-15 years in the processing of carbon fiber. The biggest areas being reduction in manual labor required, and consistency of finish.

The two underlined items above are the major areas for savings and they are being realized. The machines are complex, but that complexity is getting more affordable all the time.

Just my two cents but I would bet a hot fudge sundae that you will not see a CF wheel under $1500 in the next 5 years and possibly not in the next 10.

I hope I'm wrong but there is not that great of a demand to have a low priced CF wheel to justify the expense of R&D and tooling up once a process would be identified because you CAN save that weight - which is nominal in most cases - via other means.

Sure, if you're buying a $300K-$500K (or more - as in a Veyron, etc) exotic, what does it matter if you spend another $20K or more in CF wheels? Yes - the GT 350 has them but what do they REALLY add to the car?

Even on the C7Z - how many buyers would shell out yet another $10K minimum to get CF? I'm sure they are few and far between.

And, whenever the manufacturers DO get a reasonably priced CF wheel developed, there will be a newer, even more expensive (!) wheel that is even lighter yet (made out of some yet to be identified material - Unobtanium?) that the Gotta Have the Most Expensive Wheel Out There crowd will be wanting to buy.

It's a never ending circle!

[ender2664]

They don't make that big of a difference on the gt350 to gt350r, so why assume they will make a big difference on other cars?

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by ender2664

They don't make that big of a difference on the gt350 to gt350r, so why assume they will make a big difference on other cars?

? They should make a massive difference. That's a major part of why the R-version can do what it does...

[Jeffro19]

Originally Posted by ender2664

They don't make that big of a difference on the gt350 to gt350r, so why assume they will make a big difference on other cars?

Less unsprung weight is a big difference

[ender2664]

Originally Posted by Jeffro19

Less unsprung weight is a big difference

Look at track numbers, mpg, excel number...the numbers and consider the other things it has, not a big difference. Just get a suspension package with the cash.

[Jeffro19]

Originally Posted by ender2664

Look at track numbers, mpg, excel number...the numbers and consider the other things it has, not a big difference. Just get a suspension package with the cash.

Well you can get the suspension package and I will get the carbon wheels.