[SecondZ28]

Originally Posted by hotlap

I understand your point that Chevy could have done something to increase power in the gen5 ZL1. Even short of a LS9, there was a lot of potential in the LSA that they didn’t tap.

They did though, they took the 556hp LSA from the CTS-V and tweaked it up to 580 hp

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by shaffe

It could be, I might say it will be close or the same.

The R only has the Carbon Fiber wheels, tires, Aerodynamics and rear seat delete over the regular 350 and its roughly 8K more than the base 350

So I would say it would be better to base the "regular" GT500 off of the "regular" GT350 instead of the R.

So the base price of the 350 is 60,235. Do we really think the 500 is going to have 15-20K more worth of go fast goodies on it?



Agree Ford is late but people want them to do something because they didn't last time. People were mad that the LS9 was available when the 662HP GT500 debuted and GM stood pat with the 580HP LSA. Even when the Hellcat was announced with 707, nope they stayed with 580.

Same cycle now, the LT5 is there but looks like standing pat with the LT4

My team did report outs to Al’s Camaro team, Tadge’s Corvette team, and the Small Block V8 team when Hellcat was in development. Al’s team basically said “we’re interested in a lot more than best quarter mile times.” And they moved on. No need for or intent to “respond”. GT500 no doubt has more of their attention. It’s more of a complete car. Still, I would be surprised to see a “response” in Gen 6. Besides, if the GT500 performance lands between the ZL1 and ZLE, what more needs to be done?

Tadge’s team said pretty much the same thing and were a lot more interested in what we had to say about 911, 488, and 570s. The Small Block team was very interested in engine details.

[kttxz06]

Originally Posted by Col. Brain

GT350Rs were trading up around 100k with markups.

Ford saw that and wants in on the action.
Ford also saw an 85-90k Demon sellout 3,300 cars most of them well over the 100k mark as well.

People are dumb enough to pay the markups and so MFG will want their cut as well.

If you have to be the first on the block, this will be 100k car, unless you own the Ford dealership

Yep. This. We've already had a few dealers come out and say they are going to do at least $20k, $30k ADM so. Gonna easily go over $100k. I see............for the first to hit the lots.............$109k. Considering that is the cost of the Super Snake, I see them maybe going $120k. I'm in on this, but gonna wait for the hype to simmer down.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

I think your down playing how busy Ford Performance has been since 2010.

10 GT500 (540hp), SVT Raptor (5.4)
11 GT500 (550hp), SVT Raptor {6.2)
12/13 BOSS302, BOSS302LS, Focus ST
13/14 GT500, Fiesta ST
15 S550 GT, GT350, GT350R, Focus RS
17 FGT, FP Raptor (3.5)
19 Edge ST, Explorer ST
20 GT500, GT500 Carbon

This is only the North American offerings in this timeframe as well. There are/were additional offerings from Europe's TeamRS and Austrailia's FPV before their absorption into the Global Ford Performance moniker.

Neither of these companies are just sitting on their asses and twiddling their thumbs. Both GM and Ford... and anyone who wants to keep excitement in their showrooms are for sure putting in a ton of work. We as the consumers are the ones that get to kick back and enjoy the fruits of their labors.

Well he kept it between 2 cars while you counted like 8. LOL! I mean if you wanna count everything then there is also the CTS-V, ATS-V, Chevy SS, CTS-6, and others. Counting everything and it seems that Ford is still way behind GM. And even at that GM pumps out their cars without much fanfare or games or making people wait for this release date but only give you partial info etc. Ford on the other hand has had setbacks and setbacks and release dates getting pushed back and everything in between. I mean, it's not a pissing match. But GM is clearly doing more and putting out more cars from what I can see.

[Bhobbs]

Camaro won't respond to the GT500 or the Hellcat because corporate has no interest in responding.

Ford and Dodge let their engineers come up with anything they can. GM tells them what they have to work with and the engineers do their best.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

Camaro won't respond to the GT500 or the Hellcat because corporate has no interest in responding.

Ford and Dodge let their engineers come up with anything they can. GM tells them what they have to work with and the engineers do their best.

If only it were that simple. Whatever Ford and Dodge engineers “come up with” would still have to run a gauntlet of prototyping, validation activity, safety confirmation, fuel economy testing and balancing against other portfolio entries. These and other bureaucratic issues that the customer could give a $#!t about, but automakers have to adhere to. One slip up on running this gauntlet = game over, no respawn.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by Rodan

Base price on a 2019 GT350R is $67k and change. Add the tech package and it's $70k.

Do you really think a GT500 will be less? $75-80 sticker is my guess, plus ADM.

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Yes I do here is why. IMO the GT350 was supposed to be a limited production offering much like the Z28, and Boss thus higher pricing and ADMs. Same reason why the ZL1 was $20,000 less than the Z28 but actually outperformed it. Many early on in this forum expected 6th Gen ZL1 pricing to be much higher due to the increase in performance over the Z28.

Due to the delay with the GT500, production of the 350s were extended. The GT500 is not a limited offering and has been part of the normal Ford lineup since 2007 other than this recent delay. So yes there may be a $75,000 GT500 with options, but no the base will be nowhere near that price.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by newmoon

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Yes I do here is why. IMO the GT350 was supposed to be a limited production offering much like the Z28, and Boss thus higher pricing and ADMs. Same reason why the ZL1 was $20,000 less than the Z28 but actually outperformed it. Many early on in this forum expected 6th Gen ZL1 pricing to be much higher due to the increase in performance over the Z28.

Due to the delay with the GT500, production of the 350s were extended. The GT500 is not a limited offering and has been part of the normal Ford lineup since 2007 other than this recent delay. So yes there may be a $75,000 GT500 with options, but no the base will be nowhere near that price.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by newmoon

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Yes I do here is why. IMO the GT350 was supposed to be a limited production offering much like the Z28, and Boss thus higher pricing and ADMs. Same reason why the ZL1 was $20,000 less than the Z28 but actually outperformed it. Many early on in this forum expected 6th Gen ZL1 pricing to be much higher due to the increase in performance over the Z28.

Due to the delay with the GT500, production of the 350s were extended. The GT500 is not a limited offering and has been part of the normal Ford lineup since 2007 other than this recent delay. So yes there may be a $75,000 GT500 with options, but no the base will be nowhere near that price.

For starters, I don't remember the ZL1 outperforming the Z28. It had more HP. But they both did 12.2 in the quarter and the Z28 actually beat the ZL1 on a track. That is just what I remember. I can't positively say this because I didn't follow either car long enough. Neither of them interested me. But I don't remember the ZL1 ever outperforming the Z28.

I fully believe the Base GT500 will be $70K. I highly doubt it'll be priced along with the ZL1. It will be priced competitively with the ZLE and Redeye. It could possibly be even more than that. No way is Ford gonna MSRP this at ZL1 prices and let greedy dealerships get all the action.

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by newmoon

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Yes I do here is why. IMO the GT350 was supposed to be a limited production offering much like the Z28, and Boss thus higher pricing and ADMs. Same reason why the ZL1 was $20,000 less than the Z28 but actually outperformed it. Many early on in this forum expected 6th Gen ZL1 pricing to be much higher due to the increase in performance over the Z28.

Due to the delay with the GT500, production of the 350s were extended. The GT500 is not a limited offering and has been part of the normal Ford lineup since 2007 other than this recent delay. So yes there may be a $75,000 GT500 with options, but no the base will be nowhere near that price.

According to the chief engineer at Ford, The GT500 will be limited. Also, the GT500 is the pinnacle of there lineup, so it will cost more then the R. Even the chief engineer said the 500 will be the gap between the GT and 350R.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

For starters, I don't remember the ZL1 outperforming the Z28. It had more HP. But they both did 12.2 in the quarter and the Z28 actually beat the ZL1 on a track. That is just what I remember. I can't positively say this because I didn't follow either car long enough. Neither of them interested me. But I don't remember the ZL1 ever outperforming the Z28.

I fully believe the Base GT500 will be $70K. I highly doubt it'll be priced along with the ZL1. It will be priced competitively with the ZLE and Redeye. It could possibly be even more than that. No way is Ford gonna MSRP this at ZL1 prices and let greedy dealerships get all the action.

We can all refer back to these pricing conversations once pricing is announced and see who was closest to actual. Does the closest guess win a prize?

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

For starters, I don't remember the ZL1 outperforming the Z28. It had more HP. But they both did 12.2 in the quarter and the Z28 actually beat the ZL1 on a track. That is just what I remember. I can't positively say this because I didn't follow either car long enough. Neither of them interested me. But I don't remember the ZL1 ever outperforming the Z28.

I fully believe the Base GT500 will be $70K. I highly doubt it'll be priced along with the ZL1. It will be priced competitively with the ZLE and Redeye. It could possibly be even more than that. No way is Ford gonna MSRP this at ZL1 prices and let greedy dealerships get all the action.

You are correct, the ZL1 did not outperform the Z28.

Originally Posted by newmoon

We can all refer back to these pricing conversations once pricing is announced and see who was closest to actual. Does the closest guess win a prize?

LOL, a boost to self esteem.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

Cheapest I can price an M5 is $103k. And why would a Track pack GT500 that "could" match a Z06 on a road course and highly likely beat a Z06 on a drag strip not be worth Z06 money?

Well if you want the option of a car at that perfomance level with a manual trans for starters. Also the corvette experience is quite a bit difference from a seating and layout stand point. As great as the gt500 will be it will still be a mustang. Z06 is also offered in convertible and all coupes have a targa top.

Matching the z06 on a track remains to be seen (7:13 ring time, former record at VIR before the Ford gt and zr1 beat it if I remember correctly, 1:33 and change at Laguna seca) its still holds it's own well and the automatics are also high 10 second cars.

I'm sure to some it'll be worth z06 money, especially Ford and mustang guys or guys who want the latest thing since the c7 has been put for a while now, but the z06 still offers a very unique experience and its extremely capable. Also more of an "exotic" in the eyes of most.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Well he kept it between 2 cars while you counted like 8. LOL! I mean if you wanna count everything then there is also the CTS-V, ATS-V, Chevy SS, CTS-6, and others. Counting everything and it seems that Ford is still way behind GM. And even at that GM pumps out their cars without much fanfare or games or making people wait for this release date but only give you partial info etc. Ford on the other hand has had setbacks and setbacks and release dates getting pushed back and everything in between. I mean, it's not a pissing match. But GM is clearly doing more and putting out more cars from what I can see.

I kept it between two cars and started at 2012 because I was responding to Chevy not increasing the power for the gen5 ZL1 when the 13 GT500 out with 662 HP.

Chevy caters to the performance market with the Corvette and Camaro. Ford uses the Shelby to separate from the Mustang.

Many of the same engineers work on both Corvette and Camaro as do Mustang and Shelby. The C7 and gen6 Alpha ZL1 were already in the works with a 650 HP LT4. Ford knew that.

When Ford announced 662 HP for 2013. Camaro was getting ready to introducing the 2014 Z/28, Corvette the 2014 C7. The roll out of C7 and Alpha was 14-15-16-17. The only year of inactivity for Camaro was 2015.

So when guys say Chevy doesn't respond to Mustang, look at the body of work and the result. Consider the short comings of the 15 GT and 15 base GT350. Chevy has done far more for the performance enthusiast than Ford.

I don't care about Raptor, Focus or Edge. Models of Boss and Boss LS or GT350 and GT350R is Ford creating cars that can do and cars with compromises.

12 ZL1
13 1LE
14 Z/28
14 C7
15 Z06 - LT4
16 SS Alpha
17 1LE
17 ZL1
18 ZL1 1LE
19 ZR1
20 C8

12 Boss 302
13 GT500
15 GT S550
15 GT350
17 Ford GT.
18 GT refresh
18 GT PP2 (non track car. For when a PP or PP1 isn’t enough “street performance”)
20 GT500