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Old 03-15-2014, 08:24 PM   #127
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Everywhere I have read says they will be using the LT1. Is this official, or just a rumor?
That's the logical choice. The base Vette engine is generally the base Camaro engine.
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Old 03-15-2014, 08:27 PM   #128
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It will have to be evolutionary simply because it has to BE and LOOK LIKE a Camaro.

But it needs to be revolutionary in several areas at least compared to the current car.

1- Class leading interior materials. Current interior in 2010 was only trying to beat the 2008 Mustang interior. And it did. The Mustang refresh moved well ahead and GM played catch up with the dash, steering wheel, adding NAV, a height adjustable passenger seat. Flat out the interior pretty much sucks by 2014 standards. Just look at the new Tahoe/Suburban, Impala and Corvette. Any NG Camaro needs to put those in the weeds. The comments better read, "the 20XX Camaro interior rivals the Audi A5 for $15,000 less". I guess you feel like this is possible inside of the proper price range or you wouldn't have posted it, I hope you're right.

2 - Interior packaging. Frankly this is the current cars biggest weakness. Visibility is so poor that I never tried to parallel park one. Yes it can be done, but forward and side visibility are horrid and the rear is not much better than driving the Solstice Hard Top. The cowl is too high. The belt line is too high. And give us a trunk opening that isn't compromised by styling. The trunk is big enough but the opening is a small port hole. I think this will be the biggest factor in how evolutionary the styling will end up. It's probably the biggest complaint from the fifth gen. I've put 4500 miles on mine now and I can deal with it just fine and don't mind the sacrifice for looks but I'm not everybody and I'm used to the fourth gen which wasn't much better.

3 - More refinement in the styling. Fine, be a Camaro, we all want it to still be a Camaro. But you can make it awesome without being "cartoonish" and "in your face". I know there will be a lot of disagreement on this point. And I sure don't want a Hyundai or even the smoothed out Mustang. But don't add a lot of clap trap to it. That extra "stuff" is what hurts the C7 from being truly awesome. The Camaro was awesome when it came out. Partly because we hadn't had one in almost 10 years. But for me now, it is too much of it's own self. Tone it down a notch. Doesn't need to go to 11 But don't lower it past 10.

4 - DO NOT give us a Cadillac ATS Coupe with less stuff. And I don't mean styling. Any NG Camaro needs to have it's own value proposition. DO NOT give us a "if you want that feature or technology you need to buy the Cadillac?" Proposition. Having 3 brands is still killing GM. The Impala would be a much better car still if it weren't for the Lacrosse. And as much as you might like it, the TT 3.6L is only available with the XTS. Simply make the Camaro as good a car as you can in all trim levels. I'm hoping switching plants will give us more freedom with options but that may be wishful thinking. I'm not expecting us to be able to revert to how it was in the sixties but I would like to see some more options/colors without having to buy an overpriced special edition.

5 - Don't #$%^&* up the powertrain. Give the Camaro the best stuff you have. Don't launch with a 6 speed. Booooo. 8 speed is your best and newest transmission. The Camaro should launch with the best you have to be a great drivers car for each model. This doesn't mean Brembos on an LT. But don't skimp on the goods.

6 - Target the $30,000 price point. It needs to be the most awesome way to spend $30,000 if you want a coupe. And at that price point the Camaro should "punch well above it's weight class". One of GM's biggest failures in the past was to design and content the base car for it's entry level price. Everyone remembers the Solstice/Sky. It was the most wonderful car to get a small American made roadster for UNDER $20,000. It was frankly a miracle at that price. But the Sky Redline I bought several years ago stickered for $36,000. Within a couple grand of an Audi TT convertible. At that price point, the build quality, top operation, interior quality and features were all substandard. So GM DO NOT design and content the car for the base/entry buyer. Design and content the car so that the buyer at the high end is asking why they would spend more money for the German or Asian brand when the Camaro offers the same awesomeness for so much less.

7 - Mustang is not your only competitor. PERIOD.

The hard part will be to balance all that and still satisfy the "American Muscle" crowd. They will get that with likely the LT1. And even if the car weighs more than an ATS, and it will by the way, that car would be pretty awesome. Put an LT1 in an ATS Coupe and you won't have a 3,400 pound car. Sorry.

Now this alllllll has to leave room for a very special car at the top end of the range. GM has two premium powertrain choices in the Camaro ABOVE the LS3. Not sure if that is possible in a NG Camaro, but we've already seen the SC version of the LT1 in the Z06. Set the car up so that you can now apply premium materials to get real weight out and have a car that has all the track capability one can imagine in a Pony Car. That somehow weighs what a base V6 weighs but has the best powertrain, brakes, tires and steering. If you did 1 through 7 above correctly, this car should make anyone considering an M4, an RS5, an AMG C63 think reallllly hard about why they shouldn't be buying a Camaro. Now that's a hard goal. Most Porsche guys would have never, ever, ever, never considered a Corvette. Just ask them. But the magazines are now making that choice. And that has to be the mission of the NG Z car in the Camaro lineup.
I would like to see an entry level V8 with less power( I know) and better MPG than the LT1 put in the SS. Unless they have something up their sleeve this motor most likely doesn't exist and therefore you can kiss a $35K V8 Camaro goodbye.
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Old 03-15-2014, 08:30 PM   #129
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I still like this rendering doc. it is one of my favorites.
I love everything from the A-pillar back and don't hate the front end. Wheels are great too.
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Old 03-15-2014, 08:43 PM   #130
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I want a 350 hp V6 6 or 7speed manual with reduced weight and good looks and the basics that come with the LS at no more then 25k and let everything else be optional for those who want Cadillac levels of comfort.

Oh and a 1le package available for the V6......
Yes, yes and yes. I would add that magnetic ride as an option for all Camaros would be great too. I know that's asking alot but that's what these threads are about. If that 1LE V6 was available a guy like me would have a hard time choosing between that and the "1SS" for a daily driver. The bigger the gap between the price of those two and the more I would lean towards a 1LE V6. A fifth gen V6 1LE although probably pretty pricey would have made a hell of a car.


In regards to pricing in general it seems that here lately GM has been overcharging for new technology, AKA 2014 Silverado, or just adding too much technology. We used to just worry about how much inflation would jack up the price. If it doesn't vastly improve performance or styling, leave it out. We just need a good looking, pure performing Camaro flavored American pony car, not a 4 seat Stingray. (Unless they can keep pricing at or less than a fifth gen. In which case, Ill take 2. )
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Old 03-15-2014, 08:46 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by Number 3 View Post
It will have to be evolutionary simply because it has to BE and LOOK LIKE a Camaro.

But it needs to be revolutionary in several areas at least compared to the current car.

1- Class leading interior materials. Current interior in 2010 was only trying to beat the 2008 Mustang interior. And it did. The Mustang refresh moved well ahead and GM played catch up with the dash, steering wheel, adding NAV, a height adjustable passenger seat. Flat out the interior pretty much sucks by 2014 standards. Just look at the new Tahoe/Suburban, Impala and Corvette. Any NG Camaro needs to put those in the weeds. The comments better read, "the 20XX Camaro interior rivals the Audi A5 for $15,000 less".

2 - Interior packaging. Frankly this is the current cars biggest weakness. Visibility is so poor that I never tried to parallel park one. Yes it can be done, but forward and side visibility are horrid and the rear is not much better than driving the Solstice Hard Top. The cowl is too high. The belt line is too high. And give us a trunk opening that isn't compromised by styling. The trunk is big enough but the opening is a small port hole.

3 - More refinement in the styling. Fine, be a Camaro, we all want it to still be a Camaro. But you can make it awesome without being "cartoonish" and "in your face". I know there will be a lot of disagreement on this point. And I sure don't want a Hyundai or even the smoothed out Mustang. But don't add a lot of clap trap to it. That extra "stuff" is what hurts the C7 from being truly awesome. The Camaro was awesome when it came out. Partly because we hadn't had one in almost 10 years. But for me now, it is too much of it's own self. Tone it down a notch. Doesn't need to go to 11

4 - DO NOT give us a Cadillac ATS Coupe with less stuff. And I don't mean styling. Any NG Camaro needs to have it's own value proposition. DO NOT give us a "if you want that feature or technology you need to buy the Cadillac?" Proposition. Having 3 brands is still killing GM. The Impala would be a much better car still if it weren't for the Lacrosse. And as much as you might like it, the TT 3.6L is only available with the XTS. Simply make the Camaro as good a car as you can in all trim levels.

5 - Don't #$%^&* up the powertrain. Give the Camaro the best stuff you have. Don't launch with a 6 speed. Booooo. 8 speed is your best and newest transmission. The Camaro should launch with the best you have to be a great drivers car for each model. This doesn't mean Brembos on an LT. But don't skimp on the goods.

6 - Target the $30,000 price point. It needs to be the most awesome way to spend $30,000 if you want a coupe. And at that price point the Camaro should "punch well above it's weight class". One of GM's biggest failures in the past was to design and content the base car for it's entry level price. Everyone remembers the Solstice/Sky. It was the most wonderful car to get a small American made roadster for UNDER $20,000. It was frankly a miracle at that price. But the Sky Redline I bought several years ago stickered for $36,000. Within a couple grand of an Audi TT convertible. At that price point, the build quality, top operation, interior quality and features were all substandard. So GM DO NOT design and content the car for the base/entry buyer. Design and content the car so that the buyer at the high end is asking why they would spend more money for the German or Asian brand when the Camaro offers the same awesomeness for so much less.

7 - Mustang is not your only competitor. PERIOD.

The hard part will be to balance all that and still satisfy the "American Muscle" crowd. They will get that with likely the LT1. And even if the car weighs more than an ATS, and it will by the way, that car would be pretty awesome. Put an LT1 in an ATS Coupe and you won't have a 3,400 pound car. Sorry.

Now this alllllll has to leave room for a very special car at the top end of the range. GM has two premium powertrain choices in the Camaro ABOVE the LS3. Not sure if that is possible in a NG Camaro, but we've already seen the SC version of the LT1 in the Z06. Set the car up so that you can now apply premium materials to get real weight out and have a car that has all the track capability one can imagine in a Pony Car. That somehow weighs what a base V6 weighs but has the best powertrain, brakes, tires and steering. If you did 1 through 7 above correctly, this car should make anyone considering an M4, an RS5, an AMG C63 think reallllly hard about why they shouldn't be buying a Camaro. Now that's a hard goal. Most Porsche guys would have never, ever, ever, never considered a Corvette. Just ask them. But the magazines are now making that choice. And that has to be the mission of the NG Z car in the Camaro lineup.

#3 ---- You should be a Camaro Disciple!
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Old 03-15-2014, 09:25 PM   #132
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Old 03-16-2014, 10:41 AM   #133
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Yes, yes and yes. I would add that magnetic ride as an option for all Camaros would be great too. I know that's asking alot but that's what these threads are about. If that 1LE V6 was available a guy like me would have a hard time choosing between that and the "1SS" for a daily driver. The bigger the gap between the price of those two and the more I would lean towards a 1LE V6. A fifth gen V6 1LE although probably pretty pricey would have made a hell of a car.


In regards to pricing in general it seems that here lately GM has been overcharging for new technology, AKA 2014 Silverado, or just adding too much technology. We used to just worry about how much inflation would jack up the price. If it doesn't vastly improve performance or styling, leave it out. We just need a good looking, pure performing Camaro flavored American pony car, not a 4 seat Stingray. (Unless they can keep pricing at or less than a fifth gen. In which case, Ill take 2. )

You really have hit the nail on the head, with everybody yelling for more tech and every creature comfort they can find the price just keeps going north. I am completely ok with entry levels of the Camaro as long as the performance goods are there. I have an LS 6 speed and I love it. I added ZL1 wheels and tires and it totally transformed the handling, could it be better? Of course, with money everything can be better. What is funny is my 68 396 is pretty stock and the v6 is right there with it. Plus the 68 weighs less.

V-8 options used to be a no brainer because the price really wasn't an issue. That is not the case any longer, with CAFE regs and gas pricing it will force v8s to the higher end of the buyer pools which is sad to me. But if they keep making strides with the V6 I am alright with it because you can have a nice daily driver that matches the performance of the v8s not that many years ago. And with the right tweeks It really is all the car you need.

2016-17 Camaro LS 1LE 350hp lighter weight - $28500!!! BRING IT ON!

Last edited by ssrs396; 03-16-2014 at 02:42 PM.
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Old 03-16-2014, 12:36 PM   #134
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2016-17 Camaro LS 1LE 350hp lighter weight - $285000!!! BRING IT ON!
Ha, I hope you mean $28,500 rather than $285,000. As much as I'd love to see the Camaro taking on the highest end Ferraris...
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Old 03-16-2014, 12:53 PM   #135
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You really have hit the nail on the head, with everybody yelling for more tech and every creature comfort they can find the price just keeps going north. I am completely ok with entry levels of the Camaro as long as the performance goods are there. I have an LS 6 speed and I love it. I added ZL1 wheels and tires and it totally transformed the handling, could it be better? Of course, with money everything can be better. What is funny is my 68 396 is pretty stock and the v6 is right there with it. Plus the 68 weighs less.

V-8 options used to be a no brainer because the price really wasn't an issue. That is not the case any longer, with CAFE regs and gas pricing it will force v8s to the higher end of the buyer pools which is sad to me. But if they keep making strides with the V6 I am alright with it because you can have a nice daily driver that matches the performance of the v8s not that many years ago. And with the right tweeks It really is all the car you need.

2016-17 Camaro LS 1LE 350hp lighter weight - $285000!!! BRING IT ON!
No one, at least I'm not, is advocating taking the base car upmarket. But the Camaro launched with no NAV, no height adjustable passenger seat and acres of hard plastic in the interior. The BIG Ta Dahhhhh was the interior lighting and that didn't even make it to the dash panel.

If you can get it on an Impala for crying out loud it should be in the Camaro.

And what I don't want is a Camaro that is less than it could be because someone will be afraid that it will hurt Cadillac ATS Coupe sales.

And where is everyone coming up with this magical 350 HP V6? We just go a new V6 in the Camaro. Not sure we should be hoping for that as well on top of a NG car.
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Old 03-16-2014, 02:06 PM   #136
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Ha, I hope you mean $28,500 rather than $285,000. As much as I'd love to see the Camaro taking on the highest end Ferraris...
Oopps!!! yeah $28500
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Old 03-16-2014, 02:41 PM   #137
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...

2016-17 Camaro LS 1LE 350hp lighter weight - $285000!!! BRING IT ON!
The rumble and intoxicating sound of the V8 is really about the only reason I'd get a V8 over something like that, b/c honestly I currently am very happy with my modded but fat V6 lol. Some days I wish she were a bit faster or nimble, but then some days I stab at the throttle and think "nice!!". lol. A v8 would be great but I'd just be modding it for more power too...never ending for me lol.

Anyways this is not a V6 vs V8 thing...I just agree with that I think a performance V6 would be a fun car. Lets just imagine that the next gen V6, with a track pack/1LE, weighs around 3,400 - 3,450 lbs, has 340 - 350HP, great handling, and 3.31 - 3.55 gearing....now that would be a fantastic machine that could be had for under 30 grand. I'd have a VERY hard time resisting that. Hear me Chevrolet!!???

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...

And where is everyone coming up with this magical 350 HP V6? We just go a new V6 in the Camaro. Not sure we should be hoping for that as well on top of a NG car.
The LFX isn't exactly..."new". Sure, its a reworked LLT, which the LLT is an LY7 with direct injection slapped on. Basically, the engine has been under going changes and refinement sine the mid to early 2000s. That said, I think the LFX is a wonderful engine with a balance of power and efficiency.

But I keep hearing/reading about a new line of V6s that GM is working on, and I hear they are called "LGX". Supposed to make its way into the ATS in a year or two. Other than that I have no clue what kind of power and tech they could bring. But if I had my wish it would be a 3.6 - 3.8 litre with direct injection, cam phasing (which the LFX has) but also cylinder shutoff. I've read its very hard to do cylinder shutoff on a 60 degree engine as opposed to a 90 degree because of balance issues, but Honda is doing it successfully in the Accord. Don't see why GM couldn't. Hyundai is getting 345HP from their 3.8 V6 in the Genesis coupe, so that range of power seems completely feasible to me. With cylinder shutoff, I would think very good highway mileage could be achievable.

I like this idea b/c it would be the best n/a V6 option available to go up against Ford's 2.3 turbo 4 if GM decides not to put a turbo 4 in the Camaro. It would easily eclipse the HP rating of the Ford turbo (great for advertising) and likely get close to the same highway MPG rating. Only thing it would not be able to match is the turbo 4's low to midrange torque advantage.
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Old 03-16-2014, 02:42 PM   #138
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No one, at least I'm not, is advocating taking the base car upmarket. But the Camaro launched with no NAV, no height adjustable passenger seat and acres of hard plastic in the interior. The BIG Ta Dahhhhh was the interior lighting and that didn't even make it to the dash panel.


If you can get it on an Impala for crying out loud it should be in the Camaro.

And what I don't want is a Camaro that is less than it could be because someone will be afraid that it will hurt Cadillac ATS Coupe sales.

Agreed but I don't want it to copy the Cadillac also. Camaro should be different. And I haven't seen a Cadillac under 25k so there are always compromises.

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And where is everyone coming up with this magical 350 HP V6? We just go a new V6 in the Camaro. Not sure we should be hoping for that as well on top of a NG car.
Supposedly the LGX will replace the LFX. I am not sure how much power it will have but if everbody has their list of what they want in the next Camaro why cant I?
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Old 03-16-2014, 02:48 PM   #139
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The rumble and intoxicating sound of the V8 is really about the only reason I'd get a V8 over something like that, b/c honestly I currently am very happy with my modded but fat V6 lol. Some days I wish she were a bit faster or nimble, but then some days I stab at the throttle and think "nice!!". lol. A v8 would be great but I'd just be modding it for more power too...never ending for me lol.

Anyways this is not a V6 vs V8 thing...I just agree with that I think a performance V6 would be a fun car. Lets just imagine that the next gen V6, with a track pack/1LE, weighs around 3,400 - 3,450 lbs, has 340 - 350HP, great handling, and 3.31 - 3.55 gearing....now that would be a fantastic machine that could be had for under 30 grand. I'd have a VERY hard time resisting that. Hear me Chevrolet!!??? .
Right on the money!



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Originally Posted by KMPrenger View Post
The LFX isn't exactly..."new". Sure, its a reworked LLT, which the LLT is an LY7 with direct injection slapped on. Basically, the engine has been under going changes and refinement sine the mid to early 2000s. That said, I think the LFX is a wonderful engine with a balance of power and efficiency.

But I keep hearing/reading about a new line of V6s that GM is working on, and I hear they are called "LGX". Supposed to make its way into the ATS in a year or two. Other than that I have no clue what kind of power and tech they could bring. But if I had my wish it would be a 3.6 - 3.8 litre with direct injection, cam phasing (which the LFX has) but also cylinder shutoff. I've read its very hard to do cylinder shutoff on a 60 degree engine as opposed to a 90 degree because of balance issues, but Honda is doing it successfully in the Accord. Don't see why GM couldn't. Hyundai is getting 345HP from their 3.8 V6 in the Genesis coupe, so that range of power seems completely feasible to me. With cylinder shutoff, I would think very good highway mileage could be achievable.
Ha Ha! you posted as I was working on my reply.
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Old 03-16-2014, 04:19 PM   #140
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My wishes for the 6th Gen = Turbo 4cylinder @ 320hp/300tq 3,300lbs .... Base V-6 @ 340hp/290tq, "optional" Turbo V-6 375hp/400tq 3,400lbs ..... V-8 in the SS weighing in @ 3,475 -3,550 , we all know what will go in that one .... another thing that should be "optional" in the V-6s is better gearing(3.43/3.45/3.73,etc.) and a Posi traction for the Automatic V-6 cars ....
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