[13vertss]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

This... but but but it's a mid engine corvette... we learned a few things, the gt500 cftp is very capable, the base is more capable than many thought it'd be, and the underpowered(relatively speaking lol) car that can be had for less can compete with the gt500s and even beat them at certain things.

People need to remember, the full vir course is one of if not the fastest track, and totally caters to high hp cars. More the 2/3 of the track is near straight Away’s. Also, the cftp only beat the base by a little over 3 sec for $18k. Doesn’t seem worth it at all. The 1le is some 5 sec faster then the zl1 for $7k.

[bradmo9]

Probably put the cup 2 tires on the base 500 and make most of that time up, I really think the base is a hell of a deal when you can get one at MSRP. Its not worth the extra 18K to me for the cftp.

[ZRacerLE]

Originally Posted by 13vertss

People need to remember, the full vir course is one of if not the fastest track, and totally caters to high hp cars. More the 2/3 of the track is near straight Away’s. Also, the cftp only beat the base by a little over 3 sec for $18k. Doesn’t seem worth it at all. The 1le is some 5 sec faster then the zl1 for $7k.

I wouldn't pay that much for that delta in performance, but there's the exclusivity factor that I think Ford went for with that package. There's definitely a market for it in just the cars and coffee crowd alone.

In contrast, the cost of the 1le package for all trims is a bargain for the very small road race crowd.

[gameovergt]

Originally Posted by minn19

I just riled up the M6G boys by saying that all of these cars close enough that it is a drivers race in mortal hands. A very few handful of people can hit the professional magazine times for a couple of reasons. One is talent of course and the other is not wanting to destroy your brand new car. Most don’t push as hard when it is your car on the line and not a sponsors etc one to drive. So a lot of these lap times and what beats what by a second etc are meaningless in the real world owners hands.

I don't know they would get underwear in a bunch. Any vehicle needs to talent to achieve its best. My old ZX6R was more bike than I could ever drive to its limits. I knew a pro or more talented bike rider could do more. Still fun to ride.

I really don't like to get into discussions with my car ever. It's always what mods, horsepower, 1/4 times. Then if you answer they answer so & so I know who is my aunts, cousins, car mechanic has a blah blah blah. LOL

I mostly just say its stock with mufflers & pretty to me.

FTR this is prob last 2 door v8 car I will own. time to grow up to a 4 door sedan.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by bradmo9

Probably put the cup 2 tires on the base 500 and make most of that time up, I really think the base is a hell of a deal when you can get one at MSRP. Its not worth the extra 18K to me for the cftp.

Agreed, get a base with handling pack and slap some psc2's on there and you'll be very close for a lot less money.... assuming the handling pack isn't more than 4-5k or so... better bargain.


However if you can comfortably get the cftp, then get that because it looks way better imo and it's more exclusive.

[NW-99SS]

We now know that an amateur in a ZLE manual can beat Randy P in a GT500 base at VIR.

Pretty safe assumption that Randy P can beat his CFTP time with an A10 ZLE.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

What ST1LE is saying is that because the Stingray has a better magazine test time, you are saying “ but...but...but...GT500 will win on a drag strip."

Those "buts" are because that is the reality of Mustang performance. Mustangs are always about "could", "if", "and"...usually in that order too. The 18+ GT COULD run 11.8 IF you optioned it a specific way AND you had great track prep in great weather conditions. Now the GT500 COULD run "10.6" IF it is the Base version AND if it is on a track with great prep and great weather conditions.

That is why it is silly if anyone thought the GT500 would always win in every situation. Like I told LostM before he got banned from here, having the fastest car does not automatically mean you'll win. The GT500 is, potentially, the faster car. But..."could", "if", "and". Take away great track prep or DA or that specific version and the chances of "10.6" disappear. Meanwhile the Camaros and Corvettes never had those issues.

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

It's also capable of an 11.5 on an unprepped and prepped surface as well. Don't forget that.

What whiteboy was saying is that the gt500 did awesome and put up great numbers, but you're delusional if you don't think the c8 could be capable of beating the base's track times at a track with less long straights, even VIR Grand might be different who knows. Look at the video and see where the gt500 made up ground.

You know damn well that a z51 equipped corvette is only in the mid 60s and that's all it needs to be competitive performance wise. The "similarly priced" one in the MT comparo had a lot of non performance features.

I would say that an equal trim level to compare to the GT500 would be the 2LT. Although you are gaining extra weight and it is still a $65K level of GM performance, the 2LT is closest to what you'll get in a GT500. And at that price you'll be under the MSRP of the Base GT500.

And like you and WB said, we all mentioned a while back that the GT500 will beat the C8 on a track with long straights if it has enough power to catch the C8, pass it, and handle well enough to stay ahead in the corners. This track meets those requirements. On a track where those requirements are not met I think things will go different.

Now against the ZL1, well the straight line advantage will be diminished because the ZL1 has 10 gears to select, instant boost, and won't have as much of a power handicap. On top of handling that can possibly match or best the C8 Z51. So will the GT500 have enough room to catch 650 supercharged HP in a car that is lighter than it is? Will it be able to keep any lead going around the corners? That remains to be seen. But I doubt it. Fact of the matter is that the roles are reversed and Ford can't do to GM what GM did to Ford back in 2017. The SS and SLE beat all GT versions in every possible way while the ZL1 beat everything Ford had that costs under $400K+ in every possible way. This is regardless of track, conditions, whatever. Now Ford has the power advantage much more so than GM did and it is not capable of clear wins against the Camaros and Corvettes. AND to add, GM changed nothing in any of their cars. The Camaro is unchanged for each respective trim since they arrived. Same with the Corvettes. What would happen if the GT500 went up against the C7 Z06 or ZR1? I think GM set the bar very high in 2016 and then moved on and Ford, after all this time, is still struggling to clear it.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

We now know that an amateur in a ZLE manual can beat Randy P in a GT500 base at VIR.

Pretty safe assumption that Randy P can beat his CFTP time with an A10 ZLE.

Price wise the ZLE is almost exactly what the Base GT500 would cost MSRP to MSRP. But the Ford guys might not think it is fair to pit those together. The CF would have to step in. And unless you go crazy adding stuff like all-weather floor mats and the coin separator and the trunk organizer you will not get the ZLE anywhere close to $94K. You wouldn't even get it up to $80K. I doubt either car will beat the ZLe around a track. And if the best they can do is 11.3/11.5 then that makes it a driver's race in the quarter mile. I'm not seeing a win anywhere for the GT500.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by GossipSquirrelJelena

Not a snowballs chance in hell. By the 1/8 mile a car with 265 more hp will pass you like your tied to a stump. Take the magazine win my friend. Drag racing is my wheelhouse.

I think you got confused, I was merely pointing out that you were doing exactly what you said we would do. I know the 500 is faster than the ZL1 in the 1/4 mile. That isnt even debatable IMO.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by GossipSquirrelJelena

And when the results are reversed on a track or drag strip? Do you tip your hat? Or say but....but.....but......?

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Just so you know, you are saying "but...but...but...it will win on a drag strip."

Originally Posted by GossipSquirrelJelena

Not a snowballs chance in hell. By the 1/8 mile a car with 265 more hp will pass you like your tied to a stump. Take the magazine win my friend. Drag racing is my wheelhouse.

To make this easier to understand, I will rephrase. You are saying "but...but...but the GT500 will win at the drag strip." Just pointing out the hilarious hypocrisy in hopes you would see it too. Mission failed LOL. All that said, the sad part is you miss that we agree.

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

Pretty sure you misunderstood him lol.. he's not saying the c8 will win at the drag strip

Thank you sir.

[bradmo9]

It's always a drivers race in the 1/4 no matter what car your in. But at a dragstrip EQUAL good drivers ZLE vs GT 500 isn't a drivers race. The 500 will be close to .4-.5 second faster.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Price wise the ZLE is almost exactly what the Base GT500 would cost MSRP to MSRP. But the Ford guys might not think it is fair to pit those together. The CF would have to step in. And unless you go crazy adding stuff like all-weather floor mats and the coin separator and the trunk organizer you will not get the ZLE anywhere close to $94K. You wouldn't even get it up to $80K. I doubt either car will beat the ZLe around a track. And if the best they can do is 11.3/11.5 then that makes it a driver's race in the quarter mile. I'm not seeing a win anywhere for the GT500.

[Evansa22]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

Agreed, get a base with handling pack and slap some psc2's on there and you'll be very close for a lot less money.... assuming the handling pack isn't more than 4-5k or so... better bargain.


However if you can comfortably get the cftp, then get that because it looks way better imo and it's more exclusive.

I believe the handling package is only $1500. However why there is a handling package for the gt500 is beyond me, just throw the damn package on as standard. Maybe someone can explain that, maybe to keep the msrp 74k? Idk. I do think IF you could get a 500 for msrp it would be a good value. But to have it similarly optioned to the zl1 it would probably be more like 78k, then add in the handling package and your closer to 80k. Not to mention the fact that I think the interior in the mustang is horrible, had a new mustang rental not too long ago. Couldn't stand the interior.
Lastly, anyone who's seen the video of speed phenom running on a backroad. I laughed out loud when he parks the car and spins the rotary dial to park. Just cant get into it

[whiteboyblues2001]

Originally Posted by newmoon

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am not sure how you are saying that it is too late. The BASE GT500 4 seat Mustang just beat out the mid-engine C8 by 1.28s both similar in price and options. Remember a base C8 isn't going to compete you will need the Mag and Performance Packages upgrades. We also know that the BASE 500 is capable of 10:60s @ 133 mph at the strip. Knowing this what would you prefer? I know what my answer would be.

A few weeks ago we were all singing the praises of the C8 thinking that it would probably be faster than the CF package never mind the BASE. So yes this is a big deal IMO. I am not naive though and I understand a Z06 package will soon be offered which will surely out pace even the CF package, but for what price? For now I am pretty impressed with what Ford has accomplished especially in the BASE package and pricing.

1. It's too late because the whole "lets put a bigger blower on it" has been done to death. There is nothing inovative with this car. The Demon has a box that comes with a computer to run race fuel, drag radials from the factory, they send the liquid secondary from the intercooler to the A/C. These are things I can geek out about. The ZL1 was the first pony car that was a triple threat. The Camaro had dual-mode exhuast and magnetic ride well before the Mustang, and the Mustang still doesn't have a torque vectoring diff. The GT350 has a unique FPC high revving V8 and CF wheels. The Corvette went mid-engine and puts exotic layout with a Chevy small block in the hands of normal Joe's. These cars inovated, and give me something to talk about, they bring excitement from an engineering standpoint. You can talk to your buddies and say, "hey, did you see the new 'vette? It went mid-engine!!!". The GT500 formula has been done, other than the DCT, but I just can't get all that excited about a DCT, other than the fact that Ford finally went with Tremec, so hopefully it won't fail like the DCTs in the Fiesta and Focus. I'm not going up to anyone and saying "hey, did you see the new GT500, they gave it a bigger blower and a DCT." Yawn...

2. The prices are not exactly similar, a 3LT (that they used in the test) is $15k more than a 1LT which is not a performance option, and you have to pay ADMs on the GT500, so the GT500 is more expensive by tens of thousands of dollars that a freaking Corvette. You can get a 1LT with the Magnetic ride and Z51 performance package for $67, and no ADMs. Not to mention, the GT500 would be $10k cheaper if the Ford faithfull would stop paying ADMs. Let's face it, most folks that are buying a GT500 right now are going to add a few optipons like the handling package and the technology package which brings the MSRP to $78,500. A few more ticks of the options list, and we are conservitavely at $80,000. Add some ADM and that's $90k or so. At that price, I would just wait for the C8 Z06. If this were two years ago, and the price were a little lower, we wouldn't even have the C8 to compare to, it would make more sense.

3. As I said, VIR full course is an HP track. Put those two on most any other track, and the 'vette will probably win, with several hundred HP less. And again, wait a year, and the Z06 'vette will be competitively priced to a GT500, and will blow the GT500 away on a track.

4. It's also too late because here you are, a Mustang guy, on a car forum of a car that is going away, no longer in development, saying, wow, we finally beat you after you gave up! Whatever makes you fell better, but that's pretty pethetic. We all know that if Chevy kept interest in the Camaro, they would be showing off an updated ZL1 with the ZR1 engine (LT5), and I can guarantee you, it would blow the GT500 off of any track. They could be offering it as a 2020 MY because the LT5 is no longer used in any car. Plus, they would probably still offer a manual as well. But, the Mustang crowd gets a win because Chevy gave up on the Camaro. Enjoy!

5. Which one would I pick? In reality, neither. I'm plenty happy with my Camaro right now, and in the near future. It's my daily driver, and weekend road course car. But, if I was in the market, I would pick up a used (pre-ugly-refresh) SS1LE. I could get one for less than half of the price of the cars we are talking about, and then get a boat with the difference. If the GT500 and C8 were my only choices, I would pick the C8 without even thinking. To me, it's an exotic with a Chevy small block at Chevy prices. I have no need for 8 billion HP for a daily driver, I am already frustrated I can't get into my 455 HP car's throttle that often. I don't 1/4 mile, I don't roll race, stoplight race, or street race of any type. I am not a big fan of the power band of FI engines and prefer N/A. The interior and exterior of the C8 is MUCH better looking, in my opinion. In fact, I hate the black bumper thing on the the front of the GT500, it looks as ugly as the latest Camaro refresh. The GT350 is a better looking Mustang (and the best looking Mustang in years), in my opinion. So, yeah, C8 all day and twice on Sunday. It's not like I would take that thing to a road course and say, wow this thing is too slow, I better get a GT500.

But, if you like the GT500 more, I respect that, and for Ford guys and Mustang guys, it's a solid car. I would be frustrated it took so long to comeout, and I would be pissed to have to pay ADM or search for a deal, or wait even longer for a deal to appear. The only thing I would ask for if I were a Mustang guy, was a manual transmission option. Not that I hate a DCT, but it would be nice to have the option. Same could be said for the C8 too.

[TreedYou]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Those "buts" are because that is the reality of Mustang performance. Mustangs are always about "could", "if", "and"...usually in that order too. The 18+ GT COULD run 11.8 IF you optioned it a specific way AND you had great track prep in great weather conditions. Now the GT500 COULD run "10.6" IF it is the Base version AND if it is on a track with great prep and great weather conditions.

That is why it is silly if anyone thought the GT500 would always win in every situation. Like I told LostM before he got banned from here, having the fastest car does not automatically mean you'll win. The GT500 is, potentially, the faster car. But..."could", "if", "and". Take away great track prep or DA or that specific version and the chances of "10.6" disappear. Meanwhile the Camaros and Corvettes never had those issues.

If I am reading this correctly, are you saying that the laws of physics don't apply to camaro's and corvettes?

I've seen plenty of camaro's and corvettes blow the tires off at the line and run slower in high density altitude.