[Provoste]

Originally Posted by 5senna5

Im pretty sure I saw you at the Binge Tokyo event at NCM earlier this year.

Yeah, I was there

[carguy55]

Nurburgring lap times done by the manufacturer are a joke. All marketing hype

[Provoste]

Originally Posted by carguy55

Nurburgring lap times done by the manufacturer are a joke. All marketing hype

Disagree it’s a joke, agreed it’s for marketing, but important if you ask me. It’s a yardstick to compare new performance cars to each other. The Nordschleife is the benchmark for good reason, it’s technical, fast as hell, and illustrates a car’s capability to the max. Yeah, every manufacturer uses their best “ringer” drivers and they aim for max ideal conditions, but that’s apples to apples for all manufacturers.

[Alpha1BC]

Originally Posted by Provoste

Disagree it’s a joke, agreed it’s for marketing, but important if you ask me. It’s a yardstick to compare new performance cars to each other. The Nordschleife is the benchmark for good reason, it’s technical, fast as hell, and illustrates a car’s capability to the max. Yeah, every manufacturer uses their best “ringer” drivers and they aim for max ideal conditions, but that’s apples to apples for all manufacturers.

Well said!

[carguy55]

Nope, there are too many variables involved. Some manufactures have even ran non production spec cars (ringer cars), most have mods like race seats and roll cages at a minimum for safety but what other mods? No independent agencies monitor the tests so we have to believe they're being trustworthy. Test are run on different days and weather conditions which can have a huge difference on lap times, not to mention all the driver variables you can have. All you have to do is google it and you will see all the stories about it. It would take having an independent group with the same driver running production spec cars on the same day to mean anything. I understand its fun to compare but I'd rather look at a test like a head to head comporo than some random laptime. I guess if we assume they're all using the best driver on the best day with the best car with whatever mods, than it might be useful.

[Provoste]

Originally Posted by carguy55

Nope, there are too many variables involved. Some manufactures have even ran non production spec cars (ringer cars), most have mods like race seats and roll cages at a minimum for safety but what other mods? No independent agencies monitor the tests so we have to believe they're being trustworthy. Test are run on different days and weather conditions which can have a huge difference on lap times, not to mention all the driver variables you can have. All you have to do is google it and you will see all the stories about it. It would take having an independent group with the same driver running production spec cars on the same day to mean anything. I understand its fun to compare but I'd rather look at a test like a head to head comporo than some random laptime. I guess if we assume they're all using the best driver on the best day with the best car with whatever mods, than it might be useful.

First off, the dude opens by saying comparing lap times is completely pointless. I call bullshit on that. Yes, there’s TONS of variability that is out of the drivers hands, but there is a reason every track keeps track of lap records... they matter. Skip to 4:51 on the video and the dude basically says exactly my point... it’s a yardstick from car to car, and lap times are a driver development tool as you move through the intermediate to advanced levels. It’s the only yardstick to answer: “Am I getting faster?” Ask any Harry’s Laptimer or AIM Solo user if lap times don’t matter from event to event (with variable conditions).

Yeah, cars have safety equipment, they should. These guys are out there as paid drivers/engineers.

I haven’t heard one accusation against Porsche/Ford/GM for using “ringer cars”. Yeah the Lambo Hurracan Performate looked like it was on Pzero slicks, and they got called out on it. If Honda used cheater tires, shame on them... it doesn’t mean that ring times are useless.

What ring times do an effective job of illustrating capability. Showing that the ZL1 1LE is over 10 seconds a lap faster than a standard ZL1 in stock form, goes a long way to illustrate its capability.

According to this logic, GM’s ZR1 VIR record doesn’t matter either...

[Rutkowski]

Originally Posted by Provoste

7:35-7:40. GT4 7:40 was a walk in the park, many have argued GT4 7:40 time was brand engineered to not encroach on 991 Carrera S time of 7:40, even though GT4 is universally accepted to be faster at any track than a 991.1 Carrera S.

Bottom line is, GT4 is a 7:35ish car, and the SS 1LE is about as fast. Same driver, same track, same day... GT4 has a slight edge. I have tons of seat time in both GT4 and SS 1LE on many tracks, so I’m more informed than some.

+1 on that. The GT4 seems to have a bit better abilities on weight changes, in all other areas performance is almost identical. (Haven’t driven one, but lots of direct battles..)

Too bad we prolly won’t see GM have a go at it (they would have already tried), but the estimate is as close as we can get.
And no I’m not gonna attempt that myself.. car and life are too precious

[MATTY-1LE]

another contender worth mentioning would be the gt350 and gt350r. The gt350r set a time of 7:32.19, and the gt350 i couldnt find a solid time, as 8:18 and 8:19 times that im seeing were run while other cars were lapping too

[Provoste]

Originally Posted by MATTY-1LE

another contender worth mentioning would be the gt350 and gt350r. The gt350r set a time of 7:32.19, and the gt350 i couldnt find a solid time, as 8:18 and 8:19 times that im seeing were run while other cars were lapping too

Yeah, guessing the SS1LE would land somewhere in between the R and the regular GT350. The non-R GT350 is definitly handicaped by its OE tires, which are just fine... but not as grippy as the SS 1LE or GT350R stock rubber. That Vodoo is FAST in a straight line though. Watching a GT350R gap me on VIR's long back straight was eye opening.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by Provoste

First off, the dude opens by saying comparing lap times is completely pointless. I call bullshit on that. Yes, there’s TONS of variability that is out of the drivers hands, but there is a reason every track keeps track of lap records... they matter. Skip to 4:51 on the video and the dude basically says exactly my point... it’s a yardstick from car to car, and lap times are a driver development tool as you move through the intermediate to advanced levels. It’s the only yardstick to answer: “Am I getting faster?” Ask any Harry’s Laptimer or AIM Solo user if lap times don’t matter from event to event (with variable conditions).

Yeah, cars have safety equipment, they should. These guys are out there as paid drivers/engineers.

I haven’t heard one accusation against Porsche/Ford/GM for using “ringer cars”. Yeah the Lambo Hurracan Performate looked like it was on Pzero slicks, and they got called out on it. If Honda used cheater tires, shame on them... it doesn’t mean that ring times are useless.

What ring times do an effective job of illustrating capability. Showing that the ZL1 1LE is over 10 seconds a lap faster than a standard ZL1 in stock form, goes a long way to illustrate its capability.

According to this logic, GM’s ZR1 VIR record doesn’t matter either...

Well said!

NB 350R has never "posted" a Ring lap. Somebody in the media came up with a number and it stuck as "truth".
Ford never confirmed it and there is no vid of it. Fake news all the way. Having said that, the R is a very capabale car and the new 350 will be as well starting in 2019MY.