[krw1103]

Many years ago a guy from Texas dropped a big block engine in a small lightweight car and a couple of years later won the 24 Hours at LeMans beating all of the European supercars of the time. Carroll Shelby proved the axiom that horsepower to weight ratio wins races. I have not seen final production numbers but early testing shows the Ford will come up short, again.

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by krw1103

Many years ago a guy from Texas dropped a big block engine in a small lightweight car and a couple of years later won the 24 Hours at LeMans beating all of the European supercars of the time. Carroll Shelby proved the axiom that horsepower to weight ratio wins races. I have not seen final production numbers but early testing shows the Ford will come up short, again.

Not to nitpick, but the Cobra never claimed on overall win at LeMans...also, no BigBlock Cobras were ever used for racing as they failed to meet homologation in 1965.

Fully agreed on power to weight.

Also wish GM hadn't killed Duntov's GrandSports which bested the Cobras many times despite no factory backing or parts availability.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

I'd bet that's what a bunch of guys who put down a deposit for $10k over (initially thinking they got a great deal) are thinking right now. Wow, what have I gotten myself into....

LOL

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by krw1103

Many years ago a guy from Texas dropped a big block engine in a small lightweight car and a couple of years later won the 24 Hours at LeMans beating all of the European supercars of the time. Carroll Shelby proved the axiom that horsepower to weight ratio wins races. I have not seen final production numbers but early testing shows the Ford will come up short, again.

Agreed. And that is the problem with the GT500. Regardless of CF wheels the car still weighs 4100 pounds and has a good percentage of that weight hanging off it's nose. There is only so much that CF is going to do for it now. Because it is still 4100 pounds.

GM spent a lot on the design of the 6th Gen. And it got them ridicule. A bunch of whiny grown ass men complained that it's too small, they can't fit golf clubs in it, they can't pile a bunch of their overweight pals in it to go to their yacht club, they can't see out of it (even tho there is more than enough visibility). Yet the Camaro handles like nothing else. In order to match it Ford had to completely redesign the GT and throw mismatched stuff on it which led to it overheating. And now here comes the GT500 and once again Ford has to take short cuts. And even with those shortcuts the damn thing costs a fortune. Nobody is getting a CF GT500 at MSRP. Either there will be a markup or they will have to buy an allocation which will not go towards the car purchase. It is going to cost people over $100K. And when you think about it, they've gotten soo far away from what the Mustang is supposed to be. They would have been better off just keeping the 15-17 stuff at a low price.

Ford has taken steps backwards. Their $100K GT500 is not going to beat $100K+ supercars. It isn't even gonna beat GM's $65K supercar. And the Z06 will be in the $80K range. It isn't going to beat that. It isn't going to beat the $69K 3 year old unchanged ZLE. It won't beat the C7 Z06. I doubt it will beat even the C7 GS. Ford basically just made an expensive car that loses to cheaper Chevys. I'm going to be that the only supercharged car the CF GT500 will be able to match is the standard ZL1 and even that...I kinda doubt it. But we'll see.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Agreed. And that is the problem with the GT500. Regardless of CF wheels the car still weighs 4100 pounds and has a good percentage of that weight hanging off it's nose. There is only so much that CF is going to do for it now. Because it is still 4100 pounds.


GM spent a lot on the design of the 6th Gen. And it got them ridicule. A bunch of whiny grown ass men complained that it's too small, they can't fit golf clubs in it, they can't pile a bunch of their overweight pals in it to go to their yacht club, they can't see out of it (even tho there is more than enough visibility). Yet the Camaro handles like nothing else. In order to match it Ford had to completely redesign the GT and throw mismatched stuff on it which led to it overheating. And now here comes the GT500 and once again Ford has to take short cuts. And even with those shortcuts the damn thing costs a fortune. Nobody is getting a CF GT500 at MSRP. Either there will be a markup or they will have to buy an allocation which will not go towards the car purchase. It is going to cost people over $100K. And when you think about it, they've gotten soo far away from what the Mustang is supposed to be. They would have been better off just keeping the 15-17 stuff at a low price.

Ford has taken steps backwards. Their $100K GT500 is not going to beat $100K+ supercars. It isn't even gonna beat GM's $65K supercar. And the Z06 will be in the $80K range. It isn't going to beat that. It isn't going to beat the $69K 3 year old unchanged ZLE. It won't beat the C7 Z06. I doubt it will beat even the C7 GS. Ford basically just made an expensive car that loses to cheaper Chevys. I'm going to be that the only supercharged car the CF GT500 will be able to match is the standard ZL1 and even that...I kinda doubt it. But we'll see.

As I've said before, you act like the end all be all of cars is handling. Whether or not it beats any of those cars around a race track remains to be seen, whereas you are stating it as a fact at this point in time, that which we don't know yet.

According to Ford's times, the GT500 will beat the ZL1 in a straight line, which is 50% of the performance battle (straight line/turns being the other), but arguably more critical from a marketing standpoint. Not many people care if a car is a second slower around the ring, esp. if it's half a second faster in the 1/4 mile. Most people can't take the car to 8/10, much less 10/10, on a race track.

The base C8 Z06 will not be $80k. The C7 base Z06 is $81k. C8 will be higher.

As I've stated before, the Camaro is not small, it's external dims are very close to the Mustang's. GT and SS are both 188" long. SS is slightly lower in height since the Mustang's roof is round and the SS is more flat. The Mustang is slightly wider, but not much. The Mustang just packages it's occupants better. If those things didn't matter, Camaro would sell better than it does. Those are some of the things that turned me off Camaro and to the Mustang. They are real, whether the Camaro handles better or not. Most people want an all around performer and car that has a good combination of things (convenience/comfort/performance/looks, but not necessarily in that order).

And, the suspension upgrades and parts they put on the PP2 didn't lead to over heating. The parts they left off (HEXs) of it did, for one magazine. I think other tests of the car haven't shown the same issue being as prevalent, IIRC, but not having the coolers is def. a draw back for a small minority.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

As I've said before, you act like the end all be all of cars is handling. Whether or not it beats any of those cars around a race track remains to be seen, whereas you are stating it as a fact at this point in time, that which we don't know yet.

According to Ford's times, the GT500 will beat the ZL1 in a straight line, which is 50% of the performance battle (straight line/turns being the other), but arguably more critical from a marketing standpoint. Not many people care if a car is a second slower around the ring, esp. if it's half a second faster in the 1/4 mile. Most people can't take the car to 8/10, much less 10/10, on a race track.

The base C8 Z06 will not be $80k. The C7 base Z06 is $81k. C8 will be higher.

As I've stated before, the Camaro is not small, it's external dims are very close to the Mustang's. GT and SS are both 188" long. SS is slightly lower in height since the Mustang's roof is round and the SS is more flat. The Mustang is slightly wider, but not much. The Mustang just packages it's occupants better. If those things didn't matter, Camaro would sell better than it does. Those are some of the things that turned me off Camaro and to the Mustang. They are real, whether the Camaro handles better or not. Most people want an all around performer and car that has a good combination of things (convenience/comfort/performance/looks, but not necessarily in that order).

And, the suspension upgrades and parts they put on the PP2 didn't lead to over heating. The parts they left off (HEXs) of it did, for one magazine. I think other tests of the car haven't shown the same issue being as prevalent, IIRC, but not having the coolers is def. a draw back for a small minority.

All these folks in here worried about the 500 being a failure, I wonder how they will feel when this failure beats them by 3 car lengths at the strip and once again moves the ZL1 to dead last place behind the Hellcat RE and 500, with no assurance that there even will be an 7th Gen to save the day. Enjoy today because the party will soon be over.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by newmoon

All these folks in here worried about the 500 being a failure, I wonder how they will feel when this failure beats them by 3 car lengths at the strip and once again moves the ZL1 to dead last place behind the Hellcat RE and 500, with no assurance that there even will be an 7th Gen to save the day. Enjoy today because the party will soon be over.

LOL.....a lot of the people here could just sell their ZL1's and buy a GT500 if they wanted you know? To 'keep the party going'

A lot of people just like fast awesome cars, doesn't have to be a Ford or a Chevy.

Most people have moved on from the GT500 anyway if you havent noticed, there is a mid-engine super car made by an American manufacturer and people are WAY more interested in that now.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by newmoon

All these folks in here worried about the 500 being a failure, I wonder how they will feel when this failure beats them by 3 car lengths at the strip and once again moves the ZL1 to dead last place behind the Hellcat RE and 500, with no assurance that there even will be an 7th Gen to save the day. Enjoy today because the party will soon be over.

Yawn. The Z06 is soon coming. And it looks to be cheaper than what I could a 500 for anyway.

[whiteboyblues2001]

Originally Posted by newmoon

All these folks in here worried about the 500 being a failure, I wonder how they will feel when this failure beats them by 3 car lengths at the strip and once again moves the ZL1 to dead last place behind the Hellcat RE and 500, with no assurance that there even will be an 7th Gen to save the day. Enjoy today because the party will soon be over.

The stock ZL1 1/4 mile thing party has already been over for a while, where have you been? In a coma or something? Everyone wants to beat a Demon or RedEye. That's the benchmark. The GT500 has to beat those cars. Which I think it can, and probably will.

Only a Ford guy brags about potentially beating the number 2 guy.

THEN, it has to beat the ZLE on a road course. That's the benchmark when comparing the GT500 and ZL1, not 1/4 mile times. Again, which it could do. Ford has certainly had enough time, and the thing costs plenty enough to pay for that type of performance.

And now, because of price, it's kind of going against the C8 as well. And for the record, I think the GT500 will be faster in the 1/4 than the C8 Z51. Not too sure about road course, but I would expect the GT500 to win where power gives and advantage at the least. Plus, we really don't know much about the C8 because of the radical change, and Chevy hasn't said much.

But, it's going to be fun to watch! Lot's of new cars coming!

[RagingHawk]

It looks better in person, saw a dark blue base.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

Yawn. The Z06 is soon coming. And it looks to be cheaper than what I could a 500 for anyway.

Exactly. If the ZL1's party is over because the 500 is coming then the 500's party is over because the Z06 is coming, and around we go.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Exactly. If the ZL1's party is over because the 500 is coming then the 500's party is over because the Z06 is coming, and around we go.

With all these awesome cars available for under $100k (or under $75k for most models) the party is just getting started for car enthusiasts. Has there ever been a better time for performance cars that those with a good but not amazing salary can afford? I like talking vs., but in reality, all these cars are sweet, starting from the SS/GT/Hellcat/GT350/ZL1/GT500/C7/C8/etc. and that’s just the American brands. Germany and Japan are also in on the performance game albeit less affordable per hp.

I still love me a C7 Z06; saw an old man driving one today.

I think sometimes things just have to be put in perspective.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

With all these awesome cars available for under $100k (or under $75k for most models) the party is just getting started for car enthusiasts. Has there ever been a better time for performance cars that those with a good but not amazing salary can afford? I like talking vs., but in reality, all these cars are sweet, starting from the SS/GT/Hellcat/GT350/ZL1/GT500/C7/C8/etc. and that’s just the American brands. Germany and Japan are also in on the performance game albeit less affordable per hp.

I still love me a C7 Z06; saw an old man driving one today.

I think sometimes things just have to be put in perspective.

For sure.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

With all these awesome cars available for under $100k (or under $75k for most models) the party is just getting started for car enthusiasts. Has there ever been a better time for performance cars that those with a good but not amazing salary can afford? I like talking vs., but in reality, all these cars are sweet, starting from the SS/GT/Hellcat/GT350/ZL1/GT500/C7/C8/etc. and that’s just the American brands. Germany and Japan are also in on the performance game albeit less affordable per hp.

I still love me a C7 Z06; saw an old man driving one today.

I think sometimes things just have to be put in perspective.

Absolutely man, well said!