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Old 11-23-2019, 11:42 PM   #1
Redline_2ss
 
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GEN 3 5.0 VS Camaro SS

Has anyone really competed against the new 5.0? Friend of mine just got one and is sure he's faster than my camaro. Is GM going to refresh the LT1 like ford did?
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Old 11-24-2019, 07:09 AM   #2
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Who’s car is faster depends on two things
  1. Do you and your friend have A8 and A10 automatic transmissions?
  2. Does your friend have a GT*?
* GT, A10, PP, Michelin PS, 3.55 in drag race mode

If your friend doesn’t have a GT*, and you have a A8, your car is faster even if he has a A10
If your friend has a manual, your car is faster regardless of transmission type in your car. Actually, any gen6 SS is faster.

The GT* has a 0.1 sec advantage on a prepped surface with a good driver. All other forms of GT are slower. The majority of GT’s are not GT*’s. Like 1 in 10

We don’t know if Chevy will do a power increase. Most expected them to finish this generation after 2021 without change. Chevy has now extended the gen6 through 2023 and the new 2020 C8 has a LT2 making 495 HP.

It’s possible a version of the LT2 will make it into the Camaro due to the 2 year production run extension.

I don’t know how much of the LT2’s 35 HP power increase, over the LT1, is related the C8’s unique mid engine intake and exhaust configuration. It’s very likely Chevy developed a new engine for the delayed gen7 Camaro at the same time. It’s possible they would apply it to the gen6.
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Old 11-24-2019, 07:11 AM   #3
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I've been seeing these 2018+ 460hp Coyotes on the dragstrip. They've been running a little bit slower ETs than a stock Camaro SS, focusing on the auto trans versions here, and yes this includes some with the Performance Pack. Not that far off now, so don't go sleeping at the tree if your friend agrees to race you on a legitimate dragstrip.
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Old 11-25-2019, 02:09 PM   #4
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Well I have an e85 tune so I'm pretty sure I'll still get him. I got around 420/445 to wheel but I really appreciate how ford is giving lots of attention to the mustang as opposed to how is seems like the camaro is on the downfall. I love camaros and always will but I can definitely see why camaros are falling behind on sales.
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Old 11-25-2019, 02:31 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redline_2ss View Post
Well I have an e85 tune so I'm pretty sure I'll still get him. I got around 420/445 to wheel but I really appreciate how ford is giving lots of attention to the mustang as opposed to how is seems like the camaro is on the downfall. I love camaros and always will but I can definitely see why camaros are falling behind on sales.
Are you aware of how far behind the Mustang was from 2015 to 2017? They closed the gap in 2018 with one option (GT*). The rest of the GT still trails the Camaro and the GT350 is expensive and under performs in comparison.

The GT500 will be the first step toward being ahead.
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Old 11-29-2019, 02:19 PM   #6
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M6 vs m6 is not even close (relatively speaking), I regularly race my cousin in his m6 GT pp1 in my ss 1le and smoke him. Yes even high speed rolls to 115-130mph... though the GT does a lot better at 50-60 mph starting speeds, usually I get the hit and keep the lead at those speeds... Obviously drivers matter in m6 cars but we've ran that race every possible way and I always pull. I'll even start in 3rd on a 50 roll to give him the hit and still pass.

I was at Bradenton this week and all us in muscle cars were running crap times, prep just wasn't there. There were a few mustangs there and beat them both, I lost to a c7 and another ss 1le lol. One 5.0 was on e85 tune with a jlt, he should have pulled on me at the end and passed but his crappy mt82 m6 trans locked him out of gear long enough for me to stay ahead.

I think auto vs auto it's a lot closer... mustang probably has the edge on a high speed roll and camaro from a dig and slower rolls but I've seen it go either way.
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Old 11-30-2019, 05:28 AM   #7
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The Mustang with A10 trans is fast but it is misleading. When they first showed up people thought they were competition for the ZL1s, Hellcats, Vettes, etc. After some time they realized how far off they are and that the GTs aren't even faster than the SS if they aren't equipped properly. I test drove one and I could see how someone coming from a 15-17 GT even modded or a S197 GT would think the performance is more than it actually is. But as far as I can see you two should be just about even if trans to trans and if equal driving ability. I'd give you the edge tho unless you're doing roll ons.

Some questions we need answered are trans of both cars a skill level self assessment.
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Old 12-29-2019, 02:29 PM   #8
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Stock for stock a 2018 + 5.0 with the A10 (automatic) trans is faster than any stock Camaro ss A8 or manual. The A10 ss vs A10 5.0 is a drivers race. 2016+ ss any transmission-2017 5.0 the ss will walk it. Basically 2018-20 5.0 A10 will take a ss up to 2020 unless it’s an A10 ss.
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Old 12-29-2019, 03:39 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast02Z06 View Post
Stock for stock a 2018 + 5.0 with the A10 (automatic) trans is faster than any stock Camaro ss A8 or manual. The A10 ss vs A10 5.0 is a drivers race. 2016+ ss any transmission-2017 5.0 the ss will walk it. Basically 2018-20 5.0 A10 will take a ss up to 2020 unless it’s an A10 ss.
Agree with all (3rd gen GT A10 beating all in straight line forgetting handling as usual lol) except ..... the A8 SS (8l90) has been faster at the track/street so far than the A10 SS (10l80 lower power/torque rating than A8) from mine/others real first hand experiences. They seem to carry more torque management and don't leave the line as hard as the A8.

The A10 is a much smoother trans with better drivability than the A8 no doubt there (no shudder issue like A8 GM finally figured out now) ... but in the 6th gen SS anyway the swap from A8 to A10 has seen little to no benefit real world experiences in regards to Performance (a tiny bit slower) and might have taken a step back in power handling.

Look I know everyone thinks the new A10s are awesome and they are very cool units... but the Coyote crowd (the 10r80) found it's weaknesses quickly nothing is perfect.

People can continue to dog on the A8 for certain reasons and that's fair but in regards to Performance it's good enough for the C7 ZR1 and yeah we all know what those monsters have been doing ... so good enough for my 6th gen a properly tuned A8 will change some minds lol.

-Jon
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Old 12-29-2019, 03:54 PM   #10
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The GT HAS to be optioned in a specific manner to get the one that is faster than a SS. There are very few of those. And even then it is only a 1 tenth of a second difference. Going further that is if you're on a prepped track, in great weather, with a great pro-level driver, and can spend an entire day trying to wring out the best quarter mile to the 100th of a second. Chances are if you and him are of equal driving skill and both have the auto trans and both go to a track day where you won't have time to perform 30 minute rituals before each run...you will win.

The problem is that Mustangs need everything to go properly and several conditions to be met for them to run these fantastic times that people claim they can do. Remove one factor and everything goes to shit. Race on a warm day or off a super-prepped track or after driving for more than 20 minutes (heat soak) or without the special option package and the GT or GT* will not stand a chance.
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Old 12-29-2019, 07:43 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RageWorx View Post
The A10 is a much smoother trans with better drivability than the A8 no doubt there (no shudder issue like A8 GM finally figured out now) ... but in the 6th gen SS anyway the swap from A8 to A10 has seen little to no benefit real world experiences in regards to Performance (a tiny bit slower) and might have taken a step back in power handling.

Look I know everyone thinks the new A10s are awesome and they are very cool units... but the Coyote crowd (the 10r80) found it's weaknesses quickly nothing is perfect.
According to Wikipedia, the Hydra-Matic 10-speed ("A10" aka GM 10L90, Ford 10R80) was actually designed by Ford and tuned independently by each participant, while GM, as part of the same collaboration, designed the 9-speed transverse 9T50 that Ford didn't want in the end... and the 9-speed can shudder just the same according to reports, I've found one in this forum, see below. You are giving more credit to GM here than they deserve.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_GM_transmissions
This transmission is part of a joint-venture between General Motors and Ford Motor Company to split development of two transmissions, a longitudinal 10-speed and transverse 9-speed. Ford led the design of the 10-speed transmission, as well as filing the design patents for said transmission. According to an official report by the SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) the design of the 10-speed gearbox is essentially all Ford, while GM was responsible for designing the 9-speed 9T transverse automatic gearbox. As part of their joint-venture, Ford will let GM use the 10-speed transmission with rights to modify and manufacture it for their own applications. In-exchange for Ford's 10-speed transmission, General Motors will let Ford use its 9-speed transmission for front-wheel drive applications; Ford ultimately declined use of the 9T.[2] [3][4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford-G...c_transmission
This transmission is part of a joint-venture between Ford Motor Company and General Motors to design and engineer two transmissions, a longitudinal 10-speed transmission and a transverse 9-speed trans-axle. Each company will manufacture its own unique version of the transmissions in their own factories.[1][2] The 10-speed transmission was designed by Ford, while GM designed the 9-speed transmission which is used in transverse applications.[3][4]

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/f...on-125189.html

https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showp...9&postcount=17
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Old 12-29-2019, 08:04 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arpad_m View Post
According to Wikipedia, the Hydra-Matic 10-speed ("A10" aka GM 10L90, Ford 10R80) was actually designed by Ford and tuned independently by each participant, while GM, as part of the same collaboration, designed the 9-speed transverse 9T50 that Ford didn't want in the end... and the 9-speed can shudder just the same according to reports, I've found one in this forum, see below. You are giving more credit to GM here than they deserve.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_GM_transmissions
This transmission is part of a joint-venture between General Motors and Ford Motor Company to split development of two transmissions, a longitudinal 10-speed and transverse 9-speed. Ford led the design of the 10-speed transmission, as well as filing the design patents for said transmission. According to an official report by the SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) the design of the 10-speed gearbox is essentially all Ford, while GM was responsible for designing the 9-speed 9T transverse automatic gearbox. As part of their joint-venture, Ford will let GM use the 10-speed transmission with rights to modify and manufacture it for their own applications. In-exchange for Ford's 10-speed transmission, General Motors will let Ford use its 9-speed transmission for front-wheel drive applications; Ford ultimately declined use of the 9T.[2] [3][4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford-G...c_transmission
This transmission is part of a joint-venture between Ford Motor Company and General Motors to design and engineer two transmissions, a longitudinal 10-speed transmission and a transverse 9-speed trans-axle. Each company will manufacture its own unique version of the transmissions in their own factories.[1][2] The 10-speed transmission was designed by Ford, while GM designed the 9-speed transmission which is used in transverse applications.[3][4]

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/f...on-125189.html

https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showp...9&postcount=17
Wow not sure what your getting at mucho copy/paste but yeah I am aware of all that info thanks ... but what does this conversation have to do with the 9 speed fwd auto lol .. I was only talking about the A8 (8l90) vs the A10 (10l80 in the SS) in the 6th gen SS only and brought up the 10r80 in the Mustang GT to point out they are having issues now also as they are pushing them and no trans is unbreakable. Then your saying it's Ford's fault a Stock SS with the A8 is faster than the SS with the A10 since I'm giving GM too much credit lol. I get what your saying but I'm not concerned with giving credit for either A10 trans.

-Jon
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Old 12-29-2019, 08:19 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Fast02Z06 View Post
Stock for stock a 2018 + 5.0 with the A10 (automatic) trans is faster than any stock Camaro ss A8 or manual. The A10 ss vs A10 5.0 is a drivers race. 2016+ ss any transmission-2017 5.0 the ss will walk it. Basically 2018-20 5.0 A10 will take a ss up to 2020 unless it’s an A10 ss.
Should be noted that a10s without the 3.55 rear are not as fast and your blanket statement that all 18+ a10 GTs are faster than a8 or m6 ss's simply isn't true, standard rear end cars are slower. Even then, plenty of performance pack a10 GTs have drivers races with m6, a8, and a10 camaros. The a10 3.73 GT should be faster but isn't always the case.

Also an m6 15-17 or 18+ GT should lose to any SS trans combo handily. A10 is definately king in the mustang world by a good bit stocl for stock.
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Old 12-29-2019, 10:12 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by RageWorx View Post
Wow not sure what your getting at mucho copy/paste but yeah I am aware of all that info thanks ... but what does this conversation have to do with the 9 speed fwd auto lol .. I was only talking about the A8 (8l90) vs the A10 (10l80 in the SS) in the 6th gen SS only and brought up the 10r80 in the Mustang GT to point out they are having issues now also as they are pushing them and no trans is unbreakable. Then your saying it's Ford's fault a Stock SS with the A8 is faster than the SS with the A10 since I'm giving GM too much credit lol. I get what your saying but I'm not concerned with giving credit for either A10 trans.

-Jon
Sorry about the truckloads of c/p, just wanted to make it a more comfortable in-place read instead of clickety-clickety through

What I meant by giving too much credit was for fixing the shudder. From these sources it does seem to me that GM is still struggling with this problem here and there, and the reason the A10 isn't shuddering may have to do with the fact that it's a Ford design.

I'm a Chevy guy through and through, but also prefer the truth to myths, whichever way it goes.
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