Shelby GT350R faster than Z/28?

[RobWH]

Originally Posted by Jpnyhc1le

Im talking about track times and track times only which the ss 1le did beat the gt500 around the track. Ofcourse the gt500 blows its doors off in a straight line

That's not worth debate for me because there are so many varying track times(including 1LE winning, ZL1 winning and GT500 winning). Overall, the GT500 easily wins(at a high price).

At this point, the GT350 matters and the GT500 really doesn't. That's why I'm looking forward to 16 SS performance. The 1LE may beat it, even though Al said otherwise. I'm confident that the GT350 will beat the 16 SS, certainly in R form(which would be a SICK statement for Camaro SS and the Alpha platform)... so maybe we'll see a new 1LE or Z/28... or even ZL1 sooner rather than later.

[Jpnyhc1le]

Originally Posted by RobWH

That's not worth debate for me because there are so many varying track times(including 1LE winning, ZL1 winning and GT500 winning). Overall, the GT500 easily wins(at a high price).

At this point, the GT350 matters and the GT500 really doesn't. That's why I'm looking forward to 16 SS performance. The 1LE may beat it, even though Al said otherwise. I'm confident that the GT350 will beat the 16 SS, certainly in R form(which would be a SICK statement for Camaro SS and the Alpha platform)... so maybe we'll see a new 1LE or Z/28... or even ZL1 sooner rather than later.

I hear ya about you dont want to debate but these are all cetified track results by pro racers and every time its z28 then zl1 then 1le then gt500 the tracks are willow springs, vir, milford road course, gingerman raceway, and motown mile. Dont know where your getting your info from but....its true. Go on fastestlaps.com

[MagnumForceGB]

Motortrend did laps in both the GT500 and ZL1, the GT500 was faster even with its SRA. Guess Randy Pobst times don't count though, only GM propaganda.


http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...a_raceway.html

[MEDISIN]

Originally Posted by MagnumForceGB

Motortrend did laps in both the GT500 and ZL1, the GT500 was faster even with its SRA. Guess Randy Pobst times don't count though, only GM propaganda.


http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...a_raceway.html

Did you even bother to READ the article?

"While the Mustang was a half-second faster around the track than the ZL1 on its best lap, it couldn't repeat the performance. By the end of the first lap, the brakes had already begun to heat up so badly, we could smell them from the pits as the car passed by on the front straight. By the end of the second lap, the Shelby had lost more than half of its advantage over the ZL1, turning a 1:39.03. By the third lap, the Mustang was behind the Camaro, turning a 1:39.30. The ZL1, meanwhile, never deviated by more than two-tenths of a second."

"So, yes, the Mustang turned a faster lap, but if it's not repeatable, is it really a win? Find a 2.23-mile autocross and you might have something, but in any road race, the Mustang is going to quickly fall behind."

By the third lap the Camaro was in front for good.

How about Road&Track's test at Grattan Raceway?

ZL1: 1:27.91
GT500: 1:28.53

"Repeated braking into Turn 1 was a big test for the Brembos on both cars, and only once was there panic from a soft pedal. That pedal belonged to the GT500, which ended its timed lapping session after seven hot laps. The ZL1's brakes never faltered and in conjunction with the MR suspension provided superior confidence in decreasing-radius brake zones. The GT500 kept wanting to swing its tail out, causing a bit of trepidation and decreased speed."

How about the full body of work?

Streets of Willow (1.6 miles)
1LE 1:22.70
GT500 1:23.48

Grattan (2.0 miles)
ZL1 1:27.95
GT500 1:28.53

GingerMan (2.2 miles)
Z/28 1:41.80
ZL1 1:42.05
GT500 1:45.21

Laguna Seca (2.2 miles)
Z/28 1:37.82
GT500 1:38.70
ZL1 1:39.18

Sachsenring (2.3 miles)
Z/28 1:35.20
ZL1 1:38.13
GT500 1:38.26

Milford (2.9 miles)
Z/28 1:53.71
ZL1 1:56.58
1LE 1:58.85
Boss 302 LS 1:59.05
GT500 1:59.97

VIR (4.2 miles)
Z/28 2:50.9
ZL1 2:52.38
1LE 2:58.34
GT500 3:00.60

Nurburgring
ZL1 7:41.27
GT500 0:00.00

So the GT500 posted one good lap time one one track (Laguna Seca) then quickly fell behind by the third lap. The ZL1 is faster around every other track tested.

[MagnumForceGB]

The GT500 would have built up a 0.64 second lead, it would then take the ZL1 over 5 laps before it catches the GT500, and that is if the engine doesn't pull power from the heat.

I posted the test that was on the same day, same track, same driver. If you don't understand the significance, zero point in even replying to this thread.

[Jpnyhc1le]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

Did you even bother to READ the article?

"While the Mustang was a half-second faster around the track than the ZL1 on its best lap, it couldn't repeat the performance. By the end of the first lap, the brakes had already begun to heat up so badly, we could smell them from the pits as the car passed by on the front straight. By the end of the second lap, the Shelby had lost more than half of its advantage over the ZL1, turning a 1:39.03. By the third lap, the Mustang was behind the Camaro, turning a 1:39.30. The ZL1, meanwhile, never deviated by more than two-tenths of a second."

"So, yes, the Mustang turned a faster lap, but if it's not repeatable, is it really a win? Find a 2.23-mile autocross and you might have something, but in any road race, the Mustang is going to quickly fall behind."

By the third lap the Camaro was in front for good.

How about Road&Track's test at Grattan Raceway?

ZL1: 1:27.91
GT500: 1:28.53

"Repeated braking into Turn 1 was a big test for the Brembos on both cars, and only once was there panic from a soft pedal. That pedal belonged to the GT500, which ended its timed lapping session after seven hot laps. The ZL1's brakes never faltered and in conjunction with the MR suspension provided superior confidence in decreasing-radius brake zones. The GT500 kept wanting to swing its tail out, causing a bit of trepidation and decreased speed."

How about the full body of work?

Streets of Willow (1.6 miles)
1LE 1:22.70
GT500 1:23.48

Grattan (2.0 miles)
ZL1 1:27.95
GT500 1:28.53

GingerMan (2.2 miles)
Z/28 1:41.80
ZL1 1:42.05
GT500 1:45.21

Laguna Seca (2.2 miles)
Z/28 1:37.82
GT500 1:38.70
ZL1 1:39.18

Sachsenring (2.3 miles)
Z/28 1:35.20
ZL1 1:38.13
GT500 1:38.26

Milford (2.9 miles)
Z/28 1:53.71
ZL1 1:56.58
1LE 1:58.85
Boss 302 LS 1:59.05
GT500 1:59.97

VIR (4.2 miles)
Z/28 2:50.9
ZL1 2:52.38
1LE 2:58.34
GT500 3:00.60

Nurburgring
ZL1 7:41.27
GT500 0:00.00

So the GT500 posted one good lap time one one track (Laguna Seca) then quickly fell behind by the third lap. The ZL1 is faster around every other track tested.

Thanks you pretty much saved me from typing exactly what you typed. Dont forget guys the 1le has 426 hp the gt500 has 660 lol gm is pretty damn impressive.you cannot argue that ond

[Jpnyhc1le]

Originally Posted by MagnumForceGB

Motortrend did laps in both the GT500 and ZL1, the GT500 was faster even with its SRA. Guess Randy Pobst times don't count though, only GM propaganda.


http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...a_raceway.html

Go on fastestlaps.com most all times are posted by randy....please research before responding. Thanks

[Avalnch]

Originally Posted by MagnumForceGB

The GT500 would have built up a 0.64 second lead, it would then take the ZL1 over 5 laps before it catches the GT500, and that is if the engine doesn't pull power from the heat.

No, the ZL1 would not need 5 laps to catch up to the GT500 cause the Mustang would be in the pits after its first hot lap trying to cool down its brakes.

[MEDISIN]

Originally Posted by MagnumForceGB

The GT500 would have built up a 0.64 second lead, it would then take the ZL1 over 5 laps before it catches the GT500, and that is if the engine doesn't pull power from the heat.

I posted the test that was on the same day, same track, same driver. If you don't understand the significance, zero point in even replying to this thread.

How many races are a single lap?

"By the third lap, the Mustang was behind the Camaro, turning a 1:39.30"

Convenient you omit the other same day head-to-head comparisons:

Road&Track at Grattan Raceway
ZL1: 1:27.91
GT500: 1:28.53
http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...et-camaro-zl1/

Car&Driver at VIR
ZL1 2:57.50
GT500 3:00.60
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...t-laps-feature

[MagnumForceGB]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

How many races are a single lap?

"By the third lap, the Mustang was behind the Camaro, turning a 1:39.30"

Convenient you omit the other same day head-to-head comparisons:

Road&Track at Grattan Raceway
ZL1: 1:27.91
GT500: 1:28.53
http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...et-camaro-zl1/

Car&Driver at VIR
ZL1 2:57.50
GT500 3:00.60
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...t-laps-feature

It would be losing 0.12 seconds per lap with a 0.64 second lead.

This is hilarious though, you guys use the wikipedia of lap times that anybody can edit. No wonder Camaro owners are laughed at so hard at the track. I see you didn't mention Nordschleife, which according to your wikipedia the GT500 runs 7:39.28 to the ZL1 7:41.27. Surely the "Brake fade" would have taken affect midway through the course and the ZL1 would have been a lot faster... But hey, gotta cherry pick the results.

Best laugh is how you refer to a website that has the 2011 Mustang V6 running 1:29.09 but the 2013 Mustang GT500 runs 1:27.30 on Willow Springs, a car that has over twice the power, bigger tires, bigger brakes, better suspension package. Difference? Randy Pobst vs Edmunds.

Just like how Car and Driver takes a 2013 Mustang 5.0 and runs 13.0, but Motortrend runs a 12.7. Or how they run the 2011 Mustang V6 at 13.7 but other magazines run 14.2-14.4. For some reason different drivers get different results with cars.... or just MAYBE a live axle car requires more skill to drive instead of having a computer baby you.

Originally Posted by Avalnch

No, the ZL1 would not need 5 laps to catch up to the GT500 cause the Mustang would be in the pits after its first hot lap trying to cool down its brakes.

So fun when you try.

Originally Posted by Jpnyhc1le

Go on fastestlaps.com most all times are posted by randy....please research before responding. Thanks

Better go quick to that website and do some more editing. 1LE owners are so fun, they think they have the best car in the world then cry when they get their ass handed to them by a Mustang V6.

[ChocoTaco369]

Originally Posted by MagnumForceGB

It would be losing 0.12 seconds per lap with a 0.64 second lead.

This is hilarious though, you guys use the wikipedia of lap times that anybody can edit. No wonder Camaro owners are laughed at so hard at the track. I see you didn't mention Nordschleife, which according to your wikipedia the GT500 runs 7:39.28 to the ZL1 7:41.27. Surely the "Brake fade" would have taken affect midway through the course and the ZL1 would have been a lot faster... But hey, gotta cherry pick the results.

Best laugh is how you refer to a website that has the 2011 Mustang V6 running 1:29.09 but the 2013 Mustang GT500 runs 1:27.30 on Willow Springs, a car that has over twice the power, bigger tires, bigger brakes, better suspension package. Difference? Randy Pobst vs Edmunds.

Just like how Car and Driver takes a 2013 Mustang 5.0 and runs 13.0, but Motortrend runs a 12.7. Or how they run the 2011 Mustang V6 at 13.7 but other magazines run 14.2-14.4. For some reason different drivers get different results with cars.... or just MAYBE a live axle car requires more skill to drive instead of having a computer baby you.





So fun when you try.



Better go quick to that website and do some more editing. 1LE owners are so fun, they think they have the best car in the world then cry when they get their ass handed to them by a Mustang V6.

Christ almighty. I actually went in and bumped this thread because it hasn't been getting enough attention in my opinion. I actually promoted the GT350R because it looks like Ford made an awesome car, and I'm really hoping they best the Z28 because it's excellent for competition and forces GM to up their game (which, in turn, forces Ford and Dodge to up their game). And you go and prove me right when I said Mustang owners are some of the most immature people you'll find on any dedicated vehicle-specific forum on the internet. To Camaro5's credit, you don't really see any blind promotion. That stuff is absolutely rampant on Mustang forums. It's littered with hate-spewing, low self-esteem, Napoleonic complex garbage you see on import ricer forums.

I guess this is what's happened when Ford has created the ultimate "entry level muscle car." It's always the cheapest, and because of it, you get a lot of high schoolers. If you cannot have a mature conversation and actually debate intelligently, why are you here? Are you so bored in your life that this is how you boost your self esteem?

Let's actually debate facts and numbers, not see who swings hardest from a manufacturer's nuts. It's not impressive to have your mind bought and paid for by a manufacturer that doesn't even know you exist. A little bit of objectivity goes a long way. If not, I'll point you to a Prelude forum you can spend your time at.

[crysalis_01]

So basically... For the ZL1 to post very good times in the 1/4, change tires. Easy change.

For the GT500 to run very good times on a road course, change brake fluid. Easy change.

Seems they both excel in the areas that were designed to do so in...and need a very simple change to do very well in the others' arena.

Fair enough?

[ChocoTaco369]

The GT500 and ZL1 at the time were geared for very different crowds. The GT500 was built for straight line performance. Handling was an afterthought.

The ZL1 was built for balance. It was built for straight line performance and handling.

As a result, the ZL1 due to its much heavier suspension and less violent powerband was not as fast in a straight line. However, with modifications, thanks to the extremely stout drivetrain of the ZL1 and much more affordable-to-mod LS3 motor, the ZL1 with little effort could run with the GT500 in a straight line. Straight line speed is easily achievable - power vs weight vs gearing vs traction. The GT500, on the other hand, is too limited to become a machine that can "turn" with the ZL1.

Between the two, the ZL1 is a far more capable car overall. A ZL1 can be turned into a GT500, but a GT500 could never run with a ZL1 because the GT500's problem is the entire chassis of the vehicle. The GT500 was, overall, the inferior machine.

The GT350R is so exciting because Ford is finally building a machine that can turn and set some good track times. Looks-wise, it is gorgeous in my opinion, but looks are entirely subjective. It also sounds sick, but again, subjective. I will be watching this car like a hawk when official times are posted because I think Ford FINALLY knocked it out of the park, and I for one am rooting for them. They made it too easy for GM to run away with market share on the 5th Gen, as shown by the Camaro sales routinely trouncing Mustang sales for half a decade. Now, we may have a real answer, and I respect the guts it took to design a flat plane crank motor like that. GM never does things radical like that. They don't have the guts. Maybe this will motivate them to grow a pair and do something extreme instead of just repackaging the same slightly de-tuned Corvette hand-me-down's.

[Jpnyhc1le]

Originally Posted by MagnumForceGB

It would be losing 0.12 seconds per lap with a 0.64 second lead.

This is hilarious though, you guys use the wikipedia of lap times that anybody can edit. No wonder Camaro owners are laughed at so hard at the track. I see you didn't mention Nordschleife, which according to your wikipedia the GT500 runs 7:39.28 to the ZL1 7:41.27. Surely the "Brake fade" would have taken affect midway through the course and the ZL1 would have been a lot faster... But hey, gotta cherry pick the results.

Best laugh is how you refer to a website that has the 2011 Mustang V6 running 1:29.09 but the 2013 Mustang GT500 runs 1:27.30 on Willow Springs, a car that has over twice the power, bigger tires, bigger brakes, better suspension package. Difference? Randy Pobst vs Edmunds.

Just like how Car and Driver takes a 2013 Mustang 5.0 and runs 13.0, but Motortrend runs a 12.7. Or how they run the 2011 Mustang V6 at 13.7 but other magazines run 14.2-14.4. For some reason different drivers get different results with cars.... or just MAYBE a live axle car requires more skill to drive instead of having a computer baby you.





So fun when you try.



Better go quick to that website and do some more editing. 1LE owners are so fun, they think they have the best car in the world then cry when they get their ass handed to them by a Mustang V6.

Im a 1le owner and if you look back you would of seen that i said if i could if afforded a zl1 i would own one over my 1le. Looks like your wrong again. And maybe a mustang v6 could beat me i could see a twin turbo miving out pretty quick.....whats your point stupid? Get out of this forum before your crowned class clown