[FINALLYSATISFIED]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

something else to consider:

Did it ever occur to anyone that perhaps there ARE some non-traditional buyers who would buy a Mustang with a 4 cylinder?

Not everyone wants a 400+ horsepower V8 - or, for that matter, a 300+ hp V6?

As a product planner - one needs to consider this........

How about did it ever occur that there ARE some buyers out there that would buy a Z28? Yes without the slash. Price point the same as let's say the Dusk, Hot wheels SE.

Not everyone can afford a $60-70k car that is not daily driven capable.

GM needs needs to consider this.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by FINALLYSATISFIED

How about did it ever occur that there ARE some buyers out there that would buy a Z28? Yes without the slash.

Not everyone can afford a $60-70k car that is not daily driven capable.

GM needs needs to consider this.

What is a Z28 without the slash? For the LS1 Camaros, it was just the base V8. If that's what you mean, then that's the SS.

[FINALLYSATISFIED]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

What is a Z28 without the slash? For the LS1 Camaros, it was just the base V8. If that's what you mean, then that's the SS.

I'm pretty sure the 4th Gen had both an SS and Z28 that coexisted.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by FINALLYSATISFIED

I'm pretty sure the 4th Gen had both an SS and Z28 that coexisted.

Yeah, but the SS was a performance option on the Z28.

I meant the 5th gen SS is a base V8, similar to the Z28 of the 4th gen.

What would the 5th gen Z28 be to you?

[aintgonnahappn]

I have read through the majority of this thread and I am perplexed at the reaction to a 4 cylinder in the Camaro. I understand the knucklehead idea that american muscle has to be 8 cylinder or flop, and part of my sole still loves to hear an 8 cylinder sing. But truth be told we are one of the last countries that stick to the bigger is better philosophy. Europe has been downsizing from v12's and v10's over the last two decades, and v6 and v8 options down to turbo 4s and 6's. There are a few examples of them moving up, but for the most part mainstream models have down sized.

Another issue that is coming up is the government cafe rules, which state by 2025 the fleet average for each automaker must have a combined mpg of 54.5 mpg. Now that number sounds outlandish but the calculation is a little different, and actually gives credits for a number of reasons, I beleive someone stated it equates to 40.5-42 mpg EPA rating. This is a serious issues, and is one of the many reasons that companies such as Ford are starting to warm up to the idea of a 4 cylinder as the base engine, and turbo sixes in their trucks to replace the v8. That is also the reason why they have started aluminum cabs and beds in their trucks. It is really a race.

Another thing that is going to hit all of us, as state legislators are paying attention to what the west is piloting. Both Carbon Emission taxation and mileage tax. Both have been discussed as a way of pushing people to more efficient cars while maintaining precious tax dollars the states are losing as more efficient cars are uses less gas. To avoid this carbon tax, which will be calculated by average carbon emmision per mile, multiplied by the number of miles driven, is already used in a number of countries in Europe.

When developing new models these are a few things that have to be considered. And I don't understand why people get so up in arms when a company provides an option such as a turbo 4 mill. You are not required to buy the damn thing. And the fact of the matter is you get more gains, for less, when an engine is already boosted. The ford mill will be 325-350 hp 4 banger, will weigh 100-150 lbs less than the v8 about 50 lbs less than the 6 cylinder. And will be about 2k from 450-500 hp depending on what type of internal it has. And will probably still get 28-32 on the high way.

And that is the potential. My Gen Coupe has a larger Turbo on it, its a 4 banger, pumping out 399 hp and 362 lb ft of torque..... and the best thing is I get 31 mpg on the highway as long as im out of boost. I have to be going around 80 to be pushing boost in 6th gear. And that is a small 2.0L mill. It will just be another option.......not the end of the damn world.

[Mvp_Me]

Originally Posted by aintgonnahappn

I have read through the majority of this thread and I am perplexed at the reaction to a 4 cylinder in the Camaro. I understand the knucklehead idea that american muscle has to be 8 cylinder or flop, and part of my sole still loves to hear an 8 cylinder sing. But truth be told we are one of the last countries that stick to the bigger is better philosophy. Europe has been downsizing from v12's and v10's over the last two decades, and v6 and v8 options down to turbo 4s and 6's. There are a few examples of them moving up, but for the most part mainstream models have down sized.

Another issue that is coming up is the government cafe rules, which state by 2025 the fleet average for each automaker must have a combined mpg of 54.5 mpg. Now that number sounds outlandish but the calculation is a little different, and actually gives credits for a number of reasons, I beleive someone stated it equates to 40.5-42 mpg EPA rating. This is a serious issues, and is one of the many reasons that companies such as Ford are starting to warm up to the idea of a 4 cylinder as the base engine, and turbo sixes in their trucks to replace the v8. That is also the reason why they have started aluminum cabs and beds in their trucks. It is really a race.

Another thing that is going to hit all of us, as state legislators are paying attention to what the west is piloting. Both Carbon Emission taxation and mileage tax. Both have been discussed as a way of pushing people to more efficient cars while maintaining precious tax dollars the states are losing as more efficient cars are uses less gas. To avoid this carbon tax, which will be calculated by average carbon emmision per mile, multiplied by the number of miles driven, is already used in a number of countries in Europe.

When developing new models these are a few things that have to be considered. And I don't understand why people get so up in arms when a company provides an option such as a turbo 4 mill. You are not required to buy the damn thing. And the fact of the matter is you get more gains, for less, when an engine is already boosted. The ford mill will be 325-350 hp 4 banger, will weigh 100-150 lbs less than the v8 about 50 lbs less than the 6 cylinder. And will be about 2k from 450-500 hp depending on what type of internal it has. And will probably still get 28-32 on the high way.

And that is the potential. My Gen Coupe has a larger Turbo on it, its a 4 banger, pumping out 399 hp and 362 lb ft of torque..... and the best thing is I get 31 mpg on the highway as long as im out of boost. I have to be going around 80 to be pushing boost in 6th gear. And that is a small 2.0L mill. It will just be another option.......not the end of the damn world.

What a way to make your first post with all seriousness i agree with you. my SS cobalt put down 426whp on a 2.0L stock block on 93 pump gas. when/if the turbo 4 or 6 cyl come out why will have the potential to be beast with good mpg. imo nothing beats a car with FI. just look at evo's, gen coupe, STI, Nissan GTR!!, TOYOTA SUPRA and even the new boosted ford focus. proven time and time again engine size doesn't matter unless you are looking for that traditional V8 sound or you just want the V8 motor.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by aintgonnahappn

I have read through the majority of this thread and I am perplexed at the reaction to a 4 cylinder in the Camaro. I understand the knucklehead idea that american muscle has to be 8 cylinder or flop, and part of my sole still loves to hear an 8 cylinder sing. But truth be told we are one of the last countries that stick to the bigger is better philosophy. Europe has been downsizing from v12's and v10's over the last two decades, and v6 and v8 options down to turbo 4s and 6's. There are a few examples of them moving up, but for the most part mainstream models have down sized.

Another issue that is coming up is the government cafe rules, which state by 2025 the fleet average for each automaker must have a combined mpg of 54.5 mpg. Now that number sounds outlandish but the calculation is a little different, and actually gives credits for a number of reasons, I beleive someone stated it equates to 40.5-42 mpg EPA rating. This is a serious issues, and is one of the many reasons that companies such as Ford are starting to warm up to the idea of a 4 cylinder as the base engine, and turbo sixes in their trucks to replace the v8. That is also the reason why they have started aluminum cabs and beds in their trucks. It is really a race.

Another thing that is going to hit all of us, as state legislators are paying attention to what the west is piloting. Both Carbon Emission taxation and mileage tax. Both have been discussed as a way of pushing people to more efficient cars while maintaining precious tax dollars the states are losing as more efficient cars are uses less gas. To avoid this carbon tax, which will be calculated by average carbon emmision per mile, multiplied by the number of miles driven, is already used in a number of countries in Europe.

When developing new models these are a few things that have to be considered. And I don't understand why people get so up in arms when a company provides an option such as a turbo 4 mill. You are not required to buy the damn thing. And the fact of the matter is you get more gains, for less, when an engine is already boosted. The ford mill will be 325-350 hp 4 banger, will weigh 100-150 lbs less than the v8 about 50 lbs less than the 6 cylinder. And will be about 2k from 450-500 hp depending on what type of internal it has. And will probably still get 28-32 on the high way.

And that is the potential. My Gen Coupe has a larger Turbo on it, its a 4 banger, pumping out 399 hp and 362 lb ft of torque..... and the best thing is I get 31 mpg on the highway as long as im out of boost. I have to be going around 80 to be pushing boost in 6th gear. And that is a small 2.0L mill. It will just be another option.......not the end of the damn world.

What are your views on a "mileage" tax?

[Bhobbs]

Why do I not like a 4 banger in a Camaro? Not because of what it is but because of what it represents. It means the government is winning and forcing everything towards the ultra efficient side of things. Performance cars will become a luxury that most will not be able to afford.

[Swacer]

Originally Posted by aintgonnahappn

And that is the potential. My Gen Coupe has a larger Turbo on it, its a 4 banger, pumping out 399 hp and 362 lb ft of torque..... and the best thing is I get 31 mpg on the highway as long as im out of boost. I have to be going around 80 to be pushing boost in 6th gear. And that is a small 2.0L mill. It will just be another option.......not the end of the damn world.

You had me on your side, right till here.

Oh..Genesis Coupe...what a piece of horse shit. I had one of the first 2010 Mirabeau Blue 3.8 Track Models, and that car was so much trouble and frustration and subpar manufacturing. Couldn't sell it fast enough...

Next time, leave that part out.

[King Nothing]

The people who wanted a turbo 4cylinder think they'll save money on gas, you know you need to run premium right? Please no turbo 4 cylinder in a muscle car ever

[slashsnake]

Originally Posted by Stock6.0GTO

The people who wanted a turbo 4cylinder think they'll save money on gas, you know you need to run premium right? Please no turbo 4 cylinder in a muscle car ever

Well I came from a mazdaspeed3, and it was premium only but some newer turbo a cars are getting into running on regular. I believe the focus st is one, the velositer turbo, regal turbo... none of those engines really do it for me, but new tech is getting some regular unleaded t urbos out there. I guess it depends on what you can get for power vs. Highway mileage. I wouldn't want a 4 banger camaro, but a v-6 camaro never had any interest to me either.

Just so long as we never have to see the 2.5 I-4 of those early 3rd gens I am ok

[meissen]

What's the point of this thread? Scott has already stated in other threads (if not this one too) that Al was misquoted...

If a 4-banger makes the business case for the 6th gen that much more attractive to GM, I welcome the option. It doesn't mean I have to buy a 4-banger, it doesn't mean anyone of us has to buy a 4-banger. It just adds an option.

If having a 4-banger in there makes a thousand more people buy a Camaro to get a taste of what the Camaro is all about, why not?

How many v6 sales have resulted in people upgrading to the SS model? We see those threads on here every single day. That's two vehicles sold in GM's book.

[OldScoolCamaro]

...death before dishonor....so shall it be for the Camaro. But the MSRP for high performance is nearing the roof. If you see something you like now, such as a SS, 1LE or ZL1...you may consider making a move. The Z/28 is all that and more but exhorbitant in price for the mainstream consumer.

[DSX_Camaro]

Everyone against a Turbo I4 Camaro needs to go out and drive a Turbo I4 sports car / luxury import (say a properly tuned, bolt on VW). They are ridiculously fun and equally good on gas, while maintaining plenty of power with the reduced weight compared to an identical car will a larger engine. A ~320hp ~350ftlb twin scroll turbo I4 Camaro would be cheap and would help keep the Camaro alive when the gas mileage standards change.