Meth injection - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

Greenhornet2 · 11-22-2019, 07:42 AM

What are your thoughts on Meth injection on a PD blower. What are your thoughts on Pre rotor injection vs post rotor injection. I have been doing some research. At first I didn't want to do it pre rotor due to possible corrosion issues. Then my concern was post rotor not being able to get a good distribution of the injection.
After doing some research I have found that it seems the Meth doesn't last long enough to cause corrosion in the engine as it flashes off so quickly. The brings me back to thinking about installing pre-rotor as it does seem to help a great deal and actually keeps the supercharger itself cool as well.
At Slowhawks open house he was pretty adamant that I run meth injection. I was also showing lean during his run, though it was a tailpipe sniffer, I will have to address that when I do the cam. I understand how much safer it makes the engine I was more worried about the ill effects on the supercharger. I also was concerned about system failure then kaboom, and how long a gallon of the juice would last. A little research on that and people are saying you get a few tanks of fuel to 1 gallon of Meth, that isn't too bad.
Input is appreciated. I would like to hear from Ted at Jannetty too as He has been doing my tuning and I have been buying my parts from him.
I also sent an E-mail to Whipple asking their input. I did read it will remove the Teflon coating eventually. Yet that eventually gets worn away from running without meth as well.

Kman13RSSS · 11-22-2019, 07:39 PM

I was also hesitant to run meth but went with dons advice and am very happy. I peaked at 13psi on the dyno and 694/609 at the wheel if I remember. I went through 4 gallons this summer and roughly 3k miles.

John_C · 11-22-2019, 07:55 PM

I'd just do pump E85 if you have a good supply locally...

I run local Speedway pump E85 that in the summer months tests in the 70% range.

I ran 14psi peak at 6,800 rpm's with a D1X ProCharger and laid down 760rwhp.

eLeSthree · 11-23-2019, 06:49 AM

What are your Intake temps? If your tuner says your running lean and also highly suggests meth.... you might want to listen. Check out Hammdo’s setup on here. I think he’s running a pretty much max effort LSA with meth in the lid.

Also, you could run water/meth mix as a safety net and not tune for it. If the system fails, well you’re right back to where you are now.

hammdo · 11-23-2019, 07:59 AM

I have E85 and meth.. E handle cylinder temps, meth is insurance...

-Don

1911 1LE · 11-23-2019, 08:08 AM

We put a single nozzle with the blower with SBE. Added the 2nd and a BAP, gained 30ish HP and the IAT'S went down quite a bit. I think we were @ 640whp then. My son lost a piston and we went forged with dual Fore pump system and a 2.8" pulley, 760whp and IAT's stayed about the same. This spring, sent the blower to Nitrous Outlet and they installed spray bars. I don't remember the numbers, but the IAT's only rose 12 degrees on the dyno and it was over 100 degrees that day.
I don't know what kind of racing you do, but here is the best performance mod we have done to my Texas mile car to keep the temps down. We installed a 40lb icebox in the trunk with 1" lines and a pump in the back and 1 in the front. No other mods were done at this time. Once again I don't remember the temp numbers, but I gained 6mph in the 1/4, 6 in the 1/2 and almost 10 in the mile. I'm running the same speeds as a friend with a 915whp ProCharger car without meth or ice in the trunk.

Vegas Bound · 11-23-2019, 08:43 AM

Cheap insurance. I run both e85 and meth (AlkyControl kit). Meth doesn't come on until 50% TPS or something like that. So I'm not using it all the time. I don't have a gauge so I don't know my IAT2 temps, but having it makes me feel safer. The kit comes with lights so you know when the tank is getting low, when activated and when spraying.

Kman13RSSS · 11-23-2019, 06:44 PM

Here in the north East there isn’t many if any E85 pump stations. Easier to get cans of meth.

Greenhornet2 · 11-25-2019, 06:54 AM

There is no E85 around me so that is out. I don't think I am really running lean plugs look good and my gauge reads no more than 12.1-12.2 typically doesn't go over 12. It will be on the dyno again after I do the cam this winter. I Emailed Whipple. Guy said they have not done any testing but they have many customer that do run it and have seen no ill effects. I don't really race but I do 1/4 if/when I do. I have been fairly easy on the car so far. I am thinking of doing it just for insurance and it would only come on after 5psi of boost. Right now I peak at 11psi and plan to keep it that way after the cam. Note, I don't run a gauge for IAT I can check if I plug in my diablosport tuner I just haven't done it yet I may do that tomorrow the salt has washed off the roads and it will be almost 60 degrees out.

rgrmoreira13 · 11-25-2019, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John_C

I'd just do pump E85 if you have a good supply locally...

I run local Speedway pump E85 that in the summer months tests in the 70% range.

I ran 14psi peak at 6,800 rpm's with a D1X ProCharger and laid down 760rwhp.

What pulley are you running and have you noticed a big change in power with the bigger heads ?

I am currently running a 3.85 pulley on a D1x procharger as well but my tuner limited it to 7k rpm and I hit 7lbs of boost on E85 no meth. 7,200rpm would have made 10lbs of boost but since this is my daily and it is a SBE I didn't want things to blow up. I'm making 702rwhp and 600tq

Batmanntexas · 11-26-2019, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greenhornet2

There is no E85 around me so that is out. I don't think I am really running lean plugs look good and my gauge reads no more than 12.1-12.2 typically doesn't go over 12. It will be on the dyno again after I do the cam this winter. I Emailed Whipple. Guy said they have not done any testing but they have many customer that do run it and have seen no ill effects. I don't really race but I do 1/4 if/when I do. I have been fairly easy on the car so far. I am thinking of doing it just for insurance and it would only come on after 5psi of boost. Right now I peak at 11psi and plan to keep it that way after the cam. Note, I don't run a gauge for IAT I can check if I plug in my diablosport tuner I just haven't done it yet I may do that tomorrow the salt has washed off the roads and it will be almost 60 degrees out.

Several years back, I called Whipple to ask about methanol/water injection. I spoke with Mike @ Whipple. He indicated that 100% methanol was the only way to go. He said that the water wouldn't atomize to a small enough size (pre-rotor), and that the water would ablate the rotor coating in no time. Been running 100% meth, single nozzle (size 7, I believe) about 6" in front of the throttle body. I'm using the AlkyControl kit, so I have it set to begin spraying as soon as the boost starts, and it's progressive, so 2-3psi = low flow, 6+psi = full flow. I'm not tuned for it, using it solely for octane insurance. I'm using the ~4 gallon trunk tank and it lasts me 3-4 months usually (daily driver).

My opinion, but for maximum IAT control, I'd go post-rotor utilizing a pair of spray bars in the lower manifold.

-Scott

Greenhornet2 · 11-26-2019, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Batmanntexas

Several years back, I called Whipple to ask about methanol/water injection. I spoke with Mike @ Whipple. He indicated that 100% methanol was the only way to go. He said that the water wouldn't atomize to a small enough size (pre-rotor), and that the water would ablate the rotor coating in no time. Been running 100% meth, single nozzle (size 7, I believe) about 6" in front of the throttle body. I'm using the AlkyControl kit, so I have it set to begin spraying as soon as the boost starts, and it's progressive, so 2-3psi = low flow, 6+psi = full flow. I'm not tuned for it, using it solely for octane insurance. I'm using the ~4 gallon trunk tank and it lasts me 3-4 months usually (daily driver).

My opinion, but for maximum IAT control, I'd go post-rotor utilizing a pair of spray bars in the lower manifold.

-Scott

I would be more likely to go the route you went. I am not interested in doing it for max effort at this time just safety. I am SBE and only running ZL1 pump and will be running a booster so I am limited to the power I can put out anyway. I was reading that the 100% methanol way required a different setup as the 100% methanol is more corrosive and will eat the pump/seals. The person who responded to me e-mail was Mike Malicoat, he didn't indicate anything other than they haven't seen a problem with it. I didn't specify I did just say Meth injection in my question though.

Batmanntexas · 11-26-2019, 03:22 PM

I can attest to the more corrosive part. I have to get my pump rebuilt about every 2 years, maybe a bit longer.

On a side note, if you don't already have a boost-a-pump, I have one sitting on a shelf. Let me know if you'd be interested in it.

-Scott

Vegas Bound · 11-26-2019, 11:03 PM

My first pump lasted 18 months before rebuild was required. I bought an additional one plus rebuild the first one. I always have one ready on the shelf.

11-22-2019, 07:42 AM	#1
Greenhornet2 Drives: 2011 Camaro 2SS LS3 Whipple Join Date: May 2019 Location: Connecticut Posts: 1,925	Meth injection What are your thoughts on Meth injection on a PD blower. What are your thoughts on Pre rotor injection vs post rotor injection. I have been doing some research. At first I didn't want to do it pre rotor due to possible corrosion issues. Then my concern was post rotor not being able to get a good distribution of the injection. After doing some research I have found that it seems the Meth doesn't last long enough to cause corrosion in the engine as it flashes off so quickly. The brings me back to thinking about installing pre-rotor as it does seem to help a great deal and actually keeps the supercharger itself cool as well. At Slowhawks open house he was pretty adamant that I run meth injection. I was also showing lean during his run, though it was a tailpipe sniffer, I will have to address that when I do the cam. I understand how much safer it makes the engine I was more worried about the ill effects on the supercharger. I also was concerned about system failure then kaboom, and how long a gallon of the juice would last. A little research on that and people are saying you get a few tanks of fuel to 1 gallon of Meth, that isn't too bad. Input is appreciated. I would like to hear from Ted at Jannetty too as He has been doing my tuning and I have been buying my parts from him. I also sent an E-mail to Whipple asking their input. I did read it will remove the Teflon coating eventually. Yet that eventually gets worn away from running without meth as well. __________________ Whipple 2.9 CAI ID1050x injectors ZL1 Pump JRE FPCM JMS Voltage booster JRE Rough Idle blower cam BTR .660 springs CHE trunnion kit 1 7/8 Speed Engineering Borla Atak JRE scoop 1.5" lowering springs BMR trailing arms and toe links Cradle inserts 704WHP 603WTQ 93 octane

11-22-2019, 07:55 PM	#3
John_C LSx FTW!!! Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS RS Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: TN Posts: 767	I'd just do pump E85 if you have a good supply locally... I run local Speedway pump E85 that in the summer months tests in the 70% range. I ran 14psi peak at 6,800 rpm's with a D1X ProCharger and laid down 760rwhp. __________________ 2010 2SS RS A6 781rwhp on E85 Stage 2 ProCharger D1X Circle D 3400 Triple Disc Kooks Jet Hot Headers Kooks Full 3in exhaust Trick Flow GenX 255's Polished PAC .660's & Ti-retainers TSP VVT 3.2 cam kit w/DoD Delete Smith Bro's Trunnion kit AEM X-Series OBDII Widebands FIC ID1300x Injectors GM ZL1 High Output Fuel Pump DSX Tuning Flex Sensor DSX Auxiliary Fuel System Tim King Stage 4 Max Effort CTSV 6L90 DSS 1 piece aluminum driveshaft JRE 6L80E / 6L90E Dipstick NGK Iridium IX spark plugs #7 heat range Mighty Mouse Camaro 5 Wild w/-12an and Billet Black HP Tuners VCM Suite

11-23-2019, 06:49 AM	#4
eLeSthree Drives: 2011 Camaro SS 6sp Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Drivers Seat Posts: 1,904	What are your Intake temps? If your tuner says your running lean and also highly suggests meth.... you might want to listen. Check out Hammdo’s setup on here. I think he’s running a pretty much max effort LSA with meth in the lid. Also, you could run water/meth mix as a safety net and not tune for it. If the system fails, well you’re right back to where you are now. __________________ 2011 Camaro SS---SOLD TMS Dart 427 FED M311s, ESS Tuning G4 Blower, DSX Triple FP Assembly, DSX FF, FIC1300, Mcleod RXT 1200HD, Edlebrock Pro Flo XT 1158whp 1017wtq. 2010 CTS-V A6 - "Stock" SOLD 630whp 658wtq 2024 F-150 RCSB 5.0 4x4 waiting for tunes...

11-23-2019, 07:59 AM	#5
hammdo 'It's an experiment' Drives: [COTW 2/09/15] '11 GPI LSA SC Z/LE Join Date: May 2014 Location: Dallas TX Posts: 8,694 View My Garage	I have E85 and meth.. E handle cylinder temps, meth is insurance... -Don __________________ 747 RWHP 794 RWTQ "Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races." - Enzo Ferrari See My Build: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=385577 Last edited by hammdo; 11-28-2019 at 08:14 AM.

11-23-2019, 08:08 AM	#6
1911 1LE Drives: 2015 SW 2SS 1LE Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: 78155 Posts: 308	We put a single nozzle with the blower with SBE. Added the 2nd and a BAP, gained 30ish HP and the IAT'S went down quite a bit. I think we were @ 640whp then. My son lost a piston and we went forged with dual Fore pump system and a 2.8" pulley, 760whp and IAT's stayed about the same. This spring, sent the blower to Nitrous Outlet and they installed spray bars. I don't remember the numbers, but the IAT's only rose 12 degrees on the dyno and it was over 100 degrees that day. I don't know what kind of racing you do, but here is the best performance mod we have done to my Texas mile car to keep the temps down. We installed a 40lb icebox in the trunk with 1" lines and a pump in the back and 1 in the front. No other mods were done at this time. Once again I don't remember the temp numbers, but I gained 6mph in the 1/4, 6 in the 1/2 and almost 10 in the mile. I'm running the same speeds as a friend with a 915whp ProCharger car without meth or ice in the trunk. __________________ Maggie 2650 @ 18psi/ 75mm 10 rib/ Dual alky nozzles/ Roto-fab/ ARH 2" Lt's/ GT-12 cam/ ZL1 3.23 Conv./MGW/RPS triple carbon clutch/RSG tranny upgrage/Pedders Ex. XA w/ remote cans and a lot of other crap 897/8??@tires

11-22-2019, 07:39 PM	#2
Kman13RSSS Drives: 2013 IOM 2SS/RS 2.9 Whipple Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Auburn NH Posts: 64	I was also hesitant to run meth but went with dons advice and am very happy. I peaked at 13psi on the dyno and 694/609 at the wheel if I remember. I went through 4 gallons this summer and roughly 3k miles.

11-23-2019, 08:43 AM	#7
Vegas Bound Account Suspended Drives: 2013 Sparkly Red One Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: Hospitality State Posts: 2,558	Cheap insurance. I run both e85 and meth (AlkyControl kit). Meth doesn't come on until 50% TPS or something like that. So I'm not using it all the time. I don't have a gauge so I don't know my IAT2 temps, but having it makes me feel safer. The kit comes with lights so you know when the tank is getting low, when activated and when spraying.

11-23-2019, 06:44 PM	#8
Kman13RSSS Drives: 2013 IOM 2SS/RS 2.9 Whipple Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Auburn NH Posts: 64	Here in the north East there isn’t many if any E85 pump stations. Easier to get cans of meth.

11-25-2019, 06:54 AM	#9
Greenhornet2 Drives: 2011 Camaro 2SS LS3 Whipple Join Date: May 2019 Location: Connecticut Posts: 1,925	There is no E85 around me so that is out. I don't think I am really running lean plugs look good and my gauge reads no more than 12.1-12.2 typically doesn't go over 12. It will be on the dyno again after I do the cam this winter. I Emailed Whipple. Guy said they have not done any testing but they have many customer that do run it and have seen no ill effects. I don't really race but I do 1/4 if/when I do. I have been fairly easy on the car so far. I am thinking of doing it just for insurance and it would only come on after 5psi of boost. Right now I peak at 11psi and plan to keep it that way after the cam. Note, I don't run a gauge for IAT I can check if I plug in my diablosport tuner I just haven't done it yet I may do that tomorrow the salt has washed off the roads and it will be almost 60 degrees out. __________________ Whipple 2.9 CAI ID1050x injectors ZL1 Pump JRE FPCM JMS Voltage booster JRE Rough Idle blower cam BTR .660 springs CHE trunnion kit 1 7/8 Speed Engineering Borla Atak JRE scoop 1.5" lowering springs BMR trailing arms and toe links Cradle inserts 704WHP 603WTQ 93 octane Last edited by Greenhornet2; 11-25-2019 at 09:56 AM.

11-26-2019, 03:22 PM	#13
Batmanntexas Drives: 2012 Camaro SS (2SS) Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Stafford, VA Posts: 1,372 View My Garage	I can attest to the more corrosive part. I have to get my pump rebuilt about every 2 years, maybe a bit longer. On a side note, if you don't already have a boost-a-pump, I have one sitting on a shelf. Let me know if you'd be interested in it. -Scott __________________ 745RWHP/634RWTQ on 93 @ 10psi 806/676 on E85 @ 10psi COTW 9/8/14

11-26-2019, 11:03 PM	#14
Vegas Bound Account Suspended Drives: 2013 Sparkly Red One Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: Hospitality State Posts: 2,558	My first pump lasted 18 months before rebuild was required. I bought an additional one plus rebuild the first one. I always have one ready on the shelf.