[PnCRedJwl2SS]

My 2017 has had no major issues with the exception of the A8 shudder. After replacing the torque converter (under warranty), this car has been a dream! That was at around 20K miles. Now at 59K and going strong!

[wjones14]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

Does anyone know how CR calculate their reliability score?

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-...liability-faq/

[L78toLT1]

My guess is the A8 shudder issue is what got the Camaro. While it appears to be fixable, there are lots of reports here in the forums where guys took their cars in for multiple flushes, torque converter changes etc before the trans functioned properly.

[ember1205]

JD Power has ranked NHTSA last in initial customer satisfaction because they won't force Consumer Reports to issue a recall of their ad-sponsored articles and ratings.

Seriously... CR sucks. Their "reports" are focused on new products but are always issued at least a year after the product has hit the open market. They send out surveys to their members but not the general public, and respondents are close to an order of magnitude (that's 10 times) more likely to write about negative things than positive ones. Additionally, they are like every useless "star rating" system out there - they allow emotion to drive the response without any genuine basis in purely facts.

All cars have problems. Next question.

[wjones14]

Originally Posted by ember1205

JD Power has ranked NHTSA last in initial customer satisfaction because they won't force Consumer Reports to issue a recall of their ad-sponsored articles and ratings.

Seriously... CR sucks. Their "reports" are focused on new products but are always issued at least a year after the product has hit the open market. They send out surveys to their members but not the general public, and respondents are close to an order of magnitude (that's 10 times) more likely to write about negative things than positive ones. Additionally, they are like every useless "star rating" system out there - they allow emotion to drive the response without any genuine basis in purely facts.

All cars have problems. Next question.

I know it's going to seem like I'm defending CR here, but your highlighted statement above doesn't make sense to me. If true, then EVERY car they rate would have negative ratings. So are saying that only Camaro owners are saying negative things about the car?

FWIW, I submitted my surveys to CR the past few years, and reported that I had ZERO problems with the Camaro in terms of reliability. I also said that I was quite satisfied with the car overall, and particularly loved everything about the performance. But, I believe in answering the survey honestly, so I also pointed out the things I didn't like: the obvious visibility problem; lack of interior storage/ridiculous center storage console; dumb angle of the Infotainment screen (which reflects anything light colored that happens to be on the passenger seat); difficult ingress/egress; bad fuel economy, etc. Doesn't mean I don't love the car or think it's the best performance value in its price range - it just means it's not 100% perfect.

[gtfoxy]

Originally Posted by wjones14

I know it's going to seem like I'm defending CR here, but your highlighted statement above doesn't make sense to me. If true, then EVERY car they rate would have negative ratings. So are saying that only Camaro owners are saying negative things about the car?

FWIW, I submitted my surveys to CR the past few years, and reported that I had ZERO problems with the Camaro in terms of reliability. I also said that I was quite satisfied with the car overall, and particularly loved everything about the performance. But, I believe in answering the survey honestly, so I also pointed out the things I didn't like: the obvious visibility problem; lack of interior storage/ridiculous center storage console; dumb angle of the Infotainment screen (which reflects anything light colored that happens to be on the passenger seat); difficult ingress/egress; bad fuel economy, etc. Doesn't mean I don't love the car or think it's the best performance value in its price range - it just means it's not 100% perfect.

You answered your own question.

[wjones14]

Originally Posted by gtfoxy

You answered your own question.

How did I answer it?

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by wjones14

How did I answer it?

You have gripes, but not actual issues. So your "positive" survey resulted in negative marks for the car.

Here's the big issue... "star" ratings are worthless. Actually, surveys in general are completely worthless. Period.

Surveys are requisitioned by one person/group and sent to a second to develop. A third group administers them while a fourth group interprets them. Can you say "telephone game"?

[gtfoxy]

Originally Posted by wjones14

How did I answer it?

You asked if only Camaro owners are saying bad things, then stated you reported bad things.

I haven’t looked at CR in a long time, but I recal them traditionally always rating the Camaro very poorly.

We have to realize, also, if the survey is only CR subscribers I would imagine that is a very small subset of the buying public. I know a lot of people and the only one I ever knew to be one was my grandfather. He died in ‘03.

Originally Posted by ember1205

You have gripes, but not actual issues. So your "positive" survey resulted in negative marks for the car.

Here's the big issue... "star" ratings are worthless. Actually, surveys in general are completely worthless. Period.

Surveys are requisitioned by one person/group and sent to a second to develop. A third group administers them while a fourth group interprets them. Can you say "telephone game"?

Yep, we now see the basis for these so-called “ratings”.

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by gtfoxy

Yep, we now see the basis for these so-called “ratings”.

I pay zero attention to the stars and look for comments from verified buyers / owners. Then, I look for patterns of repeated / common issues. Actually, that isn't entirely true... I start by reading the comments on the 1 star and 2 star reviews and largely ignore the 5 star reviews (those tend to be written by people that just bought an item and "love it so much!").

[JBinSD]

Soo, back to my original question, did anything change production-wise between the 2016 to 2017-2018?
I still don't see why a 2017 or 2018 would be on the don't-buy list of CR, while the 16's, 19's and 20's are not. . .(well the 21's are at the bottom of the new car list).

[gtfoxy]

Originally Posted by JBinSD

Soo, back to my original question, did anything change production-wise between the 2016 to 2017-2018?
I still don't see why a 2017 or 2018 would be on the don't-buy list of CR, while the 16's, 19's and 20's are not. . .(well the 21's are at the bottom of the new car list).

Oil pump updates (post 18), move to A10 across the V8 line-up are a couple off the top of my head.

[wjones14]

Originally Posted by ember1205

You have gripes, but not actual issues. So your "positive" survey resulted in negative marks for the car.

Here's the big issue... "star" ratings are worthless. Actually, surveys in general are completely worthless. Period.

Surveys are requisitioned by one person/group and sent to a second to develop. A third group administers them while a fourth group interprets them. Can you say "telephone game"?

Actually, no. For the reliability section, I marked ZERO issues. So my reply has nothing to do with the low reliability rating. Others in this thread have said the low rating is mainly due to automatic transmission issues. I agree with that's probably the case - I don't have an automatic transmission, and have had zero issues. Even in this forum where most members are Camaro enthusiasts, there are a lot of threads about transmission shudder and other issues. So, can you really blame CR for reporting that?

You don't have to like CR. It's just an additional tool to use while comparison shopping. If someone wants to rely on enthusiast forums for their information, there's nothing wrong with that. The only problem is that forum information is generally anecdotal, and not compiled/summarized like the information in CR.

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by JBinSD

Soo, back to my original question, did anything change production-wise between the 2016 to 2017-2018?
I still don't see why a 2017 or 2018 would be on the don't-buy list of CR, while the 16's, 19's and 20's are not. . .(well the 21's are at the bottom of the new car list).

Why did they tell you not to buy it? What specific issues do they tell you are the reason?

New hood and front end in 2019, new Infotainment hardware (and software to go with it). They removed the Homelink option and replaced it with a second camera for the rear view mirror.

The 2016 had the most prominent issues with starter problems from heat soak. The A8 transmission was problematic for many until GM released the TSB to change the fluid and then it has mostly gone away.

So, like my previous post, you have to read "the fine print" to understand what the specific complaints are. And if you can't whittle down to anything specific, then it's just them passing on "negative feelings."